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  1. #1501
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    A little to the left
    Posts
    1,689
    Ok gents: 3 visits with reputable fitters have left me still in screaming pain most every day, so tapping the collective...

    Main issue is extreme pain across lower outside of foot below 5th met - whatever those muscles are called.

    I have good shell fit good width, intuitions and instaprints done by a good fitter.

    Pain is worst on long traverses or long groomer runs.

    1)BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?

    Better looser but when loose enough to reduce the pain I canít ski. Too little control, everything gets knocked around too much.

    2)BOW with thinner or thicker socks?

    Better thinner. Best with compression.


    3)BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?

    For the first time today I tried removing the footbeds and skiing with just the liners - no footbed. Zero pain but too much slop. For reference with beds in, Iím usually on first/second stop on buckles. With them out I had every buckle cranked to the last stop.

    This was a net gain vs with the beds but not sustainable.

    Also: If I put the beds on the floor, stand on them, and weight forward, the pain kicks in in the same area. Without even being in a boot.

    4)BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?

    Better unweighted.

    5)BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)
    Starts run 1.

    Strangely (to me) if I take boots off at lunch, put them back on after, slightly better rest of day.



    6)BOW on the first vs the third day?

    No change.

    7)BOW on harder or easier terrain?

    No change. Worse when not pointed fall line maybe.

    8)BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?

    No change

    9)BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?

    Not really.

    10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?[/QUOTE]

    Does getting older count? Beds are 5 years old.

    As I type this it feels like answer is ďnew beds duhĒ. ?

  2. #1502
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    Quote Originally Posted by optics View Post
    Ok gents: 3 visits with reputable fitters have left me still in screaming pain most every day, so tapping the collective...

    Main issue is extreme pain across lower outside of foot below 5th met - whatever those muscles are called.

    I have good shell fit good width, intuitions and instaprints done by a good fitter.

    Pain is worst on long traverses or long groomer runs.

    1)BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?

    Better looser but when loose enough to reduce the pain I can’t ski. Too little control, everything gets knocked around too much.

    2)BOW with thinner or thicker socks?

    Better thinner. Best with compression.


    3)BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?

    For the first time today I tried removing the footbeds and skiing with just the liners - no footbed. Zero pain but too much slop. For reference with beds in, I’m usually on first/second stop on buckles. With them out I had every buckle cranked to the last stop.

    This was a net gain vs with the beds but not sustainable.

    Also: If I put the beds on the floor, stand on them, and weight forward, the pain kicks in in the same area. Without even being in a boot.

    4)BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?

    Better unweighted.

    5)BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)
    Starts run 1.

    Strangely (to me) if I take boots off at lunch, put them back on after, slightly better rest of day.



    6)BOW on the first vs the third day?

    No change.

    7)BOW on harder or easier terrain?

    No change. Worse when not pointed fall line maybe.

    8)BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?

    No change

    9)BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?

    Not really.

    10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?
    Does getting older count? Beds are 5 years old.

    As I type this it feels like answer is “new beds duh”. ?[/QUOTE]

    thanks for answering questions

    sounds like the foot bed is either a bit too thick, or the wrong shape? maybe try a similar thickness, but flat footbed and see what that is like?

    idea is the toe buckles VERY lightly done up, and 100% control. sounds like the boots might be a bit loose overall too.


  3. #1503
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    A little to the left
    Posts
    1,689
    Thanks!

    Overall volume/fit is good (when I say last stop itís on the outermost bolt hole of 3).

    Would you recommend just doing super feet as a less $$$ test for a flatter bed?

  4. #1504
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    Quote Originally Posted by optics View Post
    Thanks!

    Overall volume/fit is good (when I say last stop it’s on the outermost bolt hole of 3).

    Would you recommend just doing super feet as a less $$$ test for a flatter bed?
    just try a original/stock footbed from any ski boot or shoe. its just acting as a spacer


  5. #1505
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    A little to the left
    Posts
    1,689
    Awesome - thanks for the knowledge.

  6. #1506
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    1,253
    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    maybe its sock compressing the foot? again try a few combos BEFORE punching shell, or padding liner
    Update: it was the socks. Went back to the thicker Smartwool PHDs I've been using for eons, no issues.
    Look for 2 pairs of those newfangled compression Dissent socks on gear swap soon.

  7. #1507
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Update: it was the socks. Went back to the thicker Smartwool PHDs I've been using for eons, no issues.
    Look for 2 pairs of those newfangled compression Dissent socks on gear swap soon.
    size small or medium? let me know


  8. #1508
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    849
    If you put on a pair of brand new unmolded boots and they are the correct length but they hurt really badly just sitting there, unbuckled... will they EVER fit right? length is correct
    I have a new pair of maestrale RS I bought on sale over the summer. Every once in a while I put them on thinking I will dial them in... heat mold the liner etc. but they just HURT like my feet are in a vise. unbuckled. instep, forefoot.
    Then i put them back in the box and go use my old boots.

  9. #1509
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    Quote Originally Posted by jhyatt View Post
    If you put on a pair of brand new unmolded boots and they are the correct length but they hurt really badly just sitting there, unbuckled... will they EVER fit right? length is correct
    I have a new pair of maestrale RS I bought on sale over the summer. Every once in a while I put them on thinking I will dial them in... heat mold the liner etc. but they just HURT like my feet are in a vise. unbuckled. instep, forefoot.
    Then i put them back in the box and go use my old boots.
    maybe, but its NOT a good starting point.

    try that new shell, with your old liner, to get a better idea of how it will feel after heating/use


  10. #1510
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Dolomites
    Posts
    119
    I'm on a pair of old Lupo T.I. the transparent green, done 3 season on them now and I think the shell doesn't really loose flex and performance (if you think I'm wrong please let me know so I'm looking to spend some money on new liners (have already changed one pair) I'm thinking between surefoot that I can find for 180Ä or zipfit for 360Ä..now I've read how the latter can last really long even up to 500days, I'm wondering since it's double the price, how long the surefoot would last...any tip?

  11. #1511
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by jhyatt View Post
    If you put on a pair of brand new unmolded boots and they are the correct length but they hurt really badly just sitting there, unbuckled... will they EVER fit right? length is correct
    I have a new pair of maestrale RS I bought on sale over the summer. Every once in a while I put them on thinking I will dial them in... heat mold the liner etc. but they just HURT like my feet are in a vise. unbuckled. instep, forefoot.
    Then i put them back in the box and go use my old boots.
    Was shopping for touring boots recently and had a conversation in the shop about fit. Basically, when trying on an alpine boot and it hurts somewhere (in a good way), it's the right fit. Hurting points are then fitted, punched, trimmed, molded, whatever.

    It's different with touring boots though. The shell is no always moldable (especially in the lightest boots) due to thin plastics being used, and the uphill need more space for the foot, so the fit out of the box should be somewhat different.

    I have a narrow last, super thin heel, low arch and high instep. Still looking for a snug-fitting boots, both alpine and touring.

  12. #1512
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bellevue
    Posts
    5,298
    My turn to post. I picked up a pair of Lange zb(?) boots recently and they fit pretty well so far around my lower foot but I'm struggling to figure out what I need to do to make them work with my ankle/lower leg. These are my first new boots since ~2010 and that pair was the first that fit well. Those were raptor 130s with a bit of grinding near the Achilles to make them slightly more upright. I am not the most aware of what I'm doing with my body while skiing, I'm trying to pay more attention so I know what to address with the boots. And I plan on visiting a bootfitter, but I'm still collecting information about these boots so I can give useful feedback.

    I do have footbeds and I lace up the liners before putting the boots on. On the lower foot buckles from the toe I'm running 1 and 1, or 1 and 2 with unbuckling at the bottom. For the shin buckles I had to move the ladders to the biggest position and I'm running 1 and 1 with the strap in place. I can barely buckle the lower shin buckle after I have all the others latched.

    My issue is that I don't feel balanced in the boots most of the time. My first few runs feel off and as far as I can tell it's a balance and boot flex issue. I can get used to the boots after a while but it doesn't feel like I have as much freedom to make fore aft adjustments as I'm used to.

    Last week I skied with the bottom buckles tight and the top two on the ladders but open. That felt pretty good, but I wasn't focusing on it a lot, it almost felt like I could be more comfortably forward without them fastened down.

    My plan for tonight is to bring spoilers to put behind the liners if there's room. And to remove the screw in the spine to see if the boots are just too stiff for me. I may try both together.


    For what it's worth last year I did a fairly long descent in borrowed AT boots and the current feeling is somewhat similar. The boots were 29s or something and I'm in a 26.5. For that day I tried to fill as much volume as I could, then clamped my ankle down. I felt like I couldn't flex the boots well because they didn't match my foot/leg shape and I couldn't get the leverage I needed to be comfortable skiing hard.

    What else should I be fiddling with? Or what should I pay attention to so I can be useful when talking to a fitter?

  13. #1513
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    put on one old boot, and one new boot and see what the stance feels like?

    I assume size, shape and flex are similar?

    bring both into the fitter so they can look/measure


  14. #1514
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    849
    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    maybe, but its NOT a good starting point.

    try that new shell, with your old liner, to get a better idea of how it will feel after heating/use
    Great tip! I put an old liner in the new shell and it's super roomy.
    What's funny is that I am comparing old scarpa f1 with new maestrale RS and with the same liners, but different shell on each foot, the RS dont feel that much stiffer. I wanted stiffer... Maybe it will ski different.
    Will it totally eff up my liners to ski them in a different shell?

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

  15. #1515
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    Quote Originally Posted by jhyatt View Post

    Will it totally eff up my liners to ski them in a different shell?

    Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

    no its fine to try it out. If you like the new package better, just keep going, but long term might not fit the old package again.


  16. #1516
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,748
    General shout out of thanks to mntlion, gregL and others who post on this thread with helpful boot fitting advise. After a coupla seasons of employing a lot of helpful tips from here and a few other sources to muchly mod my Dynafit Vulcans, I'm pretty close to holy grail status in terms of boot/liner fit and ski feel.

    The ultimate test of boot comfort was performed the other night. Since the boots basically dissappear on my feet, I figured why not try sleeping in them. So, I slept in them. Slept like a baby.

    Warm feet, comfy feet.

    Mind blown.
    Master of mediocrity.

  17. #1517
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    123ski-
    That's some really good information- could I ask where you had the 3D done and what were the costs involved? PM if you don't want to post here. Thanks and good luck with them.
    Iíve been skiing on the boot for 10+ days now and itís all good.

    Curtis at Sports Den in salt lake did all the work


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  18. #1518
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    17
    I currently ski in a Dalbello Panterra 120 with a booster strap and custom made foot bed.
    I really liked the fit, however, for the last year or so I do get quite a bit amount of pain on the inside ankle, the more the longer the day goes. And it has gotten worse in the last year, assuming the liner packed out.

    Shell fit wise they are pretty good everywhere.

    I know I have relatively wide and flat feet and I do pronate A LOT and I can see my ankle touch the plastic when the foot is pronated.
    From my understanding pronating is necessary for correct turn initiation, but too much is also bad?!


    1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?
    No difference, except blood circulation problems when really tight.
    2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks?
    No difference, prefer compression socks and tighter buckle settings
    3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?
    Tried different footbeds, all relatively few support on the arch. Tried posting it up a little by myself, but no real success
    4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?
    Worse skiing, especially when hard on edge and firm snow
    5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)
    Worse throughout the day
    6) BOW on the first vs the third day?
    I can feel it earlier in the day on the third but doesnít get much worse than on first day
    7) BOW on harder or easier terrain?
    Worse in harder, firmer conditions
    8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?
    No difference
    9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?
    Worse if I have to traverse a lot
    10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?
    No

    Thanks a lot!

  19. #1519
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Swiss alps
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobsen View Post
    I currently ski in a Dalbello Panterra 120 with a booster strap and custom made foot bed.
    I really liked the fit, however, for the last year or so I do get quite a bit amount of pain on the inside ankle, the more the longer the day goes. And it has gotten worse in the last year, assuming the liner packed out.

    Shell fit wise they are pretty good everywhere.

    I know I have relatively wide and flat feet and I do pronate A LOT and I can see my ankle touch the plastic when the foot is pronated.
    From my understanding pronating is necessary for correct turn initiation, but too much is also bad?!


    1)BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?
    No difference, except blood circulation problems when really tight.
    2)BOW with thinner or thicker socks?
    No difference, prefer compression socks and tighter buckle settings
    3)BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?
    Tried different footbeds, all relatively few support on the arch. Tried posting it up a little by myself, but no real success
    4)BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?
    Worse skiing, especially when hard on edge and firm snow
    5)BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)
    Worse throughout the day
    6)BOW on the first vs the third day?
    I can feel it earlier in the day on the third but doesnít get much worse than on first day
    7)BOW on harder or easier terrain?
    Worse in harder, firmer conditions
    8)BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?
    No difference
    9)BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?
    Worse if I have to traverse a lot
    10)Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?
    No

    Thanks a lot!
    Sounds like you need a footbed.

  20. #1520
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by smooth operator View Post
    Sounds like you need a footbed.
    I do have a custom made Sidas footbed. I am actually on my third footbed (instaprint and another one). All with the same effect.
    Maybe all three of them have just been bad?

    One addition: I have noticed that all were done weighted, so standing upright during the molding process. Maybe a heavily pronating foot needs an unweighted footbed? Or is it not that easy?

    Thanks!

  21. #1521
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    how many days on the boots?

    was it like this day 1 and on current?

    what is the shell fit like? please measure and use mm.


  22. #1522
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    799
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobsen View Post
    I do have a custom made Sidas footbed. I am actually on my third footbed (instaprint and another one). All with the same effect.
    Maybe all three of them have just been bad?

    One addition: I have noticed that all were done weighted, so standing upright during the molding process. Maybe a heavily pronating foot needs an unweighted footbed? Or is it not that easy?

    Thanks!
    As mentioned(later in thread..HA) defer to the pros...
    ...have ALWAYS had Instaprints molded (with really good Bootfitters/Pedorthists) in the UNWEIGHTED.

    $.01
    Last edited by steved; 02-12-2020 at 09:07 AM.

  23. #1523
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    4,343
    I believe my climbing shoes are starting to really fuck my feet over.

    The head of the 5th metatarsal on my right foot has been getting irritated towards the end of the day since I switched to intuitions. Otherwise the fit is damn near perfect without even baking them.

    How does the collective go about punching the liners? I see that intuition sells a big metal S thing for $35... no thanks. Is best common practice to just grab something slender and blunt and apply pressure?

  24. #1524
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    156
    Defer to the experts, but you could put some foam on your foot in the spot that hurts, heat that area of the liner with a blow dryer, and then put the boot on and do a targeted molding.

    Could also use a broom handle or something similar if you could get it in there


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #1525
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,569
    Quote Originally Posted by waxloaf View Post
    Defer to the experts, but you could put some foam on your foot in the spot that hurts, heat that area of the liner with a blow dryer, and then put the boot on and do a targeted molding.

    Could also use a broom handle or something similar if you could get it in there


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    yup, with foot padding just do up the boot VERY tight to compress that spot

    and with broom, heat up liner too.


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