the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[gregL]

Got some boots from sports den that fit snuuuuug. They did the 3d measuring and I tried on a couple pairs. Lange LV 140 XT3. is it fine that my bigger (right) foot is getting numb within 5-10 min at home after only one heat mold? I'm assuming this will go away with time on the slopes. Seems to be pressure around the metatarsal area. Left foot is not as bad. Not buckling the tops tight at all. Some pain on the underside around the tarsal. I'm used to the sloppy boot life.

Which 3D measuring system did they use?

My feet go numb in a new LV Lange after 10-12 minutes, and it's a combination of multiple punches, cutting the elastic and excess vinyl out of the liner, thinning the footbed, and 25-30 hours spent watching football in the boots before I ski them that makes them tolerable. However, I go through this process on a regular basis so I know it's going to work out, and have access to all the tools I need - your experience will almost certainly vary if you don't have easy access to bootfitting.

[optics]

Your new guy might be right; it's very hard for me to diagnose anything without seeing you and your feet in person. Abduction/alignment is usually more of a "control" issue than a pain issue (messes with your proprioception and your skis tend to toe in (or out) rather than tracking straight, but like I said I don't know. Some people have a longitudinal curvature of the foot that requires major modification all the way from the styloid to the fifth phalanges and sometimes outward at the big toe as well just to sit straight in the boot. If your footbeds have excessive support it can shift weight and pressure toward the lateral side of your foot as well. Sometimes it's simply that no one has made the boot wide enough for the foot. All are possibilities. Where are you located?

Yeah that all makes sense. I'm in the bay area these days...used to be a Seattle mag.

To date myself, the last REALLY great fitting I had was some first-year Kneissl flexons, done by Jim Mates in his basement...

And yep - my current insoles which were done ~5 years ago had a shim at the inside heel, which my new guy thought was exacerbating the problem. Maybe it made sense for my 5-years-younger feet.

I think what I should do is go ahead with this guy's plan, and if we can't get it worked out I'll come see you later in the season. Been thinking about road-tripping it up there for some Stevens time anyway.

Thanks a ton for the feedback. Appreciate it.

[AZskibum]

Which 3D measuring system did they use?

My feet go numb in a new LV Lange after 10-12 minutes, and it's a combination of multiple punches, cutting the elastic and excess vinyl out of the liner, thinning the footbed, and 25-30 hours spent watching football in the boots before I ski them that makes them tolerable. However, I go through this process on a regular basis so I know it's going to work out, and have access to all the tools I need - your experience will almost certainly vary if you don't have easy access to bootfitting.

Not sure. It was a white platform with an iPad app.

They said I could return for boot fitting if anything was wrong. Have a feeling I might be doing that, even though it's a 10 hour drive.

So keeping them on pre season helps a bit?

I'm just hoping I won't have to switch boots. I can deal with having to get them punched or altering the custom foot beds, but getting the wrong size boot twice in three years hurts.

I'm getting a warmth in my foot type of pain, and a feeling like it's cramping near the arch under my foot. My pinky toes feel like they may be getting compressed a bit, maaaaybe slightly tucked (but extended). The arch is just warm and painful. There is some pressure on my Achillies from the side, not sure if that matters. I think in the store I tried them on mostly without my custom footbeds, although we did put them in to mold the liners I think?

Feels like maybe there's too much pressure from top on little toe, and maybe on the side. The heel pocket is snug.

As always, I appreciate your help Greg. Maybe I just need to ski them and see if they pack out.

EDIT: Took my custom foot bed out. Might be better? Big toe knuckle hitting the top of the boot now, though.

[turnfarmer]

Ok fitters...hoping to tap into your collective brainpower here.

Since I hit 40-ish something changed with my feet and I've had a tough time getting into a boot that gave me the right fit/feel, without causing crazy excruciating pain (mostly around the joint forward of my cuboid?). Have been through 3 fitters, insoles, liners, different lasts...the only pain-free day I've had was when I got pissed and pulled the insoles out altogether. Had zero pain but felt like the ski equivalent of no-boarding....foot just sloshing around in the boot.

I went and saw a new fitter this summer. Gave him the history, bought him the built-up insoles, liners, etc. He asked a bunch of good questions that hadn't come up with the other fitters, and he thinks it's coming from my having a heavily abducted stance. The way he talked me through that showing up on the hill (specific types of pain, fatigue, etc) made good sense.

He said he's had good success with other people with a similar stance by creating a more abducted position in the boot. Punching out the outside front just a hair, and backfilling the inside, so my feet aren't getting forced more toe-in than they want to be (and all the related knee tracking issues...).

None of the other fitters ever flagged this, but it makes sense to me. It must have gotten more pronounced over the past few years, because it was never an issue before.

Wondering if you guys have any specific best-practices or lessons learned the hard way with doing this kind of work...when he was talking about this I got flashbacks of stories of McConkey mounting his bindings to offset the same issue...would really rather not go down that road, so probably going to try this first.


But let me know if there's anything specific I should be thinking about or asking for with this kind of shell work?

TIA.

Can you be more specific? Is the pain located at the base of the 5th Metatarsal. If so it is likely insertional Peroneal Brevis tendonitis. The fact that it goes away without foot beds indicates to me the your have too much medial posting at the distal. medial arch or under the first metatarsal heads. And/or you achilles needs stretching or a heel lift. If your insoles from your shoes have a lot of obvious pressure until the first metatarsal head, you ski boot insole may need a lowering of the 1st metatarsal head.

[colemaaj]

I got fitted into a pair of Techina Mach-1 Lv 130s and I am concerned about the fact that they are immediately comfortable. Is this a valid concern? Are they going to turn into house slippers after two days? I'm a former hockey player and have never had skates that feel good in any way when fitted.

[optics]

Can you be more specific? Is the pain located at the base of the 5th Metatarsal.

Yep - and a bit forward, and 'under'. It's a combo of what feels like direct pressure-induced pain, and what feels like those muscles around that joint cramping.

And yes - I don't see a lot of wear in my shoe insoles at the 1st head, but I do have crazy leatherface calluses there so I know there's pressure.

My achilles flexibility is very good, but I can totally see the medial posting issue being a culprit. I have very low arches and maybe the guy who made the original insoles was pushing too hard to counter that with a ton of lift there.

This is all great info. Thanks!

[turnfarmer]

Yep - and a bit forward, and 'under'. It's a combo of what feels like direct pressure-induced pain, and what feels like those muscles around that joint cramping.

And yes - I don't see a lot of wear in my shoe insoles at the 1st head, but I do have crazy leatherface calluses there so I know there's pressure.
My achilles flexibility is very good, but I can totally see the medial posting issue being a culprit. I have very low arches and maybe the guy who made the original insoles was pushing too hard to counter that with a ton of lift there.

This is all great info. Thanks!

The under pain is likely peroneal longus pain, again indicative of overposting the forefoot/distal arch. Calluses definitely a sign of pressure(could be friction also.)

[ntblanks]

I got fitted into a pair of Techina Mach-1 Lv 130s and I am concerned about the fact that they are immediately comfortable. Is this a valid concern? Are they going to turn into house slippers after two days? I'm a former hockey player and have never had skates that feel good in any way when fitted.

Did you do a shell fit and if so how much space was there behind your heel? Therein lies the answer.

[waxman]

I got fitted into a pair of Techina Mach-1 Lv 130s and I am concerned about the fact that they are immediately comfortable. Is this a valid concern? Are they going to turn into house slippers after two days? I'm a former hockey player and have never had skates that feel good in any way when fitted.

go down one shell size and see how that work
or try a different brand of the same style of boot
sweeping generalization if its comfortable it's too big

[gregL]

. . . sweeping generalization if its comfortable it's too big

Sweeping but true - if it feels comfortable now, it will be sloppy after a month or so of skiing. Some people don't care, but they don't ski much.

[waxman]

Sweeping but true - if it feels comfortable now, it will be sloppy after a month or so of skiing. Some people don't care, but they don't ski much.

we call it the "british tourist fit" there's some huge sports chain in the UK that sells boot 3-4 sizes too big and then sends the poor schmucks overseas to ski

[volklpowdermaniac]

Sweeping but true - if it feels comfortable now, it will be sloppy after a month or so of skiing. Some people don't care, but they don't ski much.

this.

When i mold my full tilts ( had several pairs of them now) the intuition molding process is exquisitely painful, like 15-20 minutes of almost torture, they feel SNUG when done with touch of toe tap. After a few days of serious skiing, and when leaning into them , they feel just right, by end of a month or two, they are perfect for next 2-3 years.

[fmac]

Hey folks, and especially GregL (thanks again for the Waymaker toes a while back), what are the latest recs for a high-instep touring boot?

Foot is a 27.5, standard width, high arch and instep. Perplexed a few bootfitters in the past. I was in heavily modified Waymakers until grabbing a pair of (used) Siderals last year. Not a good fit as many of you could guess. Pressure is across the outside top of the foot from the edge of the tongue opening.

Located in Bend. Would like to see Mark up at Gravity but Covid hours are limited and they seem to only stock alpine boots with a few sidecountry.

[random_watcher]

Have you tried any Scott boots, (Cosmos/Orbit/Superguide) quite a high volume fit although might be too wide for you if you don't have a particularly wide foot.

[AZskibum]

If i'm able to stay in my new boots longer without my old custom footbeds, should I just ski the stock beds until I can make it back to a fitter? Or is it better to have way less comfort and try to break in the boots on my custom beds? I'm gettting foot issues at home I didn't get when I had these boots on in the shop in SLC. First ski day is Friday and I'm worried I won't be able to do more than a run or two before taking the boots off. Got new boots hoping to fix my old issue of boots that were way too big. Now my toes fall asleep in minutes.

This is my first low volume boot, and i'm going from a 102 last to a 97. I was swimming in my Panterras. The pressure feels like it's the top of my foot, but also with some cramping under it.

[mntlion]

If i'm able to stay in my new boots longer without my old custom footbeds, should I just ski the stock beds until I can make it back to a fitter? Or is it better to have way less comfort and try to break in the boots on my custom beds? I'm gettting foot issues at home I didn't get when I had these boots on in the shop in SLC. First ski day is Friday and I'm worried I won't be able to do more than a run or two before taking the boots off. Got new boots hoping to fix my old issue of boots that were way too big. Now my toes fall asleep in minutes.

This is my first low volume boot, and i'm going from a 102 last to a 97. I was swimming in my Panterras. The pressure feels like it's the top of my foot, but also with some cramping under it.

use what ever footbed feels best. custom, stock or non

is the boot better with the toe buckles looser? (dont crank them, heck, its OK to ski with them 100% off)

can you call the store/fitter you bought them from and ask?

[El Chupacabra]

How long do custom footbeds last? Or alternatively, how long before your feet change, just from age?

Thinking about my boots etc, and realizing that my footbeds are around 15 years old.

[mntlion]

How long do custom footbeds last? Or alternatively, how long before your feet change, just from age?

Thinking about my boots etc, and realizing that my footbeds are around 15 years old.

odds are done

[El Chupacabra]

odds are done

That's what I'm kinda thinking too. Time to see a boot fitter this season.

[AZskibum]

use what ever footbed feels best. custom, stock or non

is the boot better with the toe buckles looser? (dont crank them, heck, its OK to ski with them 100% off)

can you call the store/fitter you bought them from and ask?

Better looser. I have the top buckles super super loose (almost flapping). There is still a decent amount of pressure even when the buckles are undone. The top of the foot does feel like it's getting pressed down on. Toes/sides of foot pressure too maybe?

I got them from sports den in SLC. I think I'm going to have to drive back up and see them after a couple days. I didn't notice the falling asleep in the shop.

I need to call and ask.

[mntlion]

Better looser. I have the top buckles super super loose (almost flapping). There is still a decent amount of pressure even when the buckles are undone. The top of the foot does feel like it's getting pressed down on. Toes/sides of foot pressure too maybe?

I got them from sports den in SLC. I think I'm going to have to drive back up and see them after a couple days. I didn't notice the falling asleep in the shop.

I need to call and ask.

top buckles tighter,

bottom buckles off (not loose, OFF)

no footbeds at all

see how that does

[gregL]

. . . what are the latest recs for a high-instep touring boot?

Try the Scott Cosmos III, Atomic Hawx Prime XTD, Dalbello Lupo AX 120 . . . they all have their pluses and minuses, but all are pretty generous in the instep.

[AZskibum]

top buckles tighter,

bottom buckles off (not loose, OFF)

no footbeds at all

see how that does

Okie dokie: Took the stock liner out, that changed things. Front of foot/toes are staying awake much longer with a mix of standing/sitting in the boot. The burning is also taking longer to set in. Still getting a little pressure from the top of the toes (phalanxes I guess?) up the top of the foot, and maybe on the sides of the feet. More roomy in the boot (especially toes, they can wiggle more) and it feels like my shin is hitting the cuff at a less comfortable angle now, but I'm not sure. Bit worried the instep is too low and I screwed my boot budget on these . If instep is the issue can that be fixed without messing up the rest of the fit?

I'm in the LV 140 Lange XT3 for reference.

[mntlion]

Okie dokie: Took the stock liner out, that changed things. Front of foot/toes are staying awake much longer with a mix of standing/sitting in the boot. The burning is also taking longer to set in. Still getting a little pressure from the top of the toes (phalanxes I guess?) up the top of the foot, and maybe on the sides of the feet. More roomy in the boot (especially toes, they can wiggle more) and it feels like my shin is hitting the cuff at a less comfortable angle now, but I'm not sure. Bit worried the instep is too low and I screwed my boot budget on these . If instep is the issue can that be fixed without messing up the rest of the fit?

I'm in the LV 140 Lange XT3 for reference.

have you skied in this boot yet? was the liner agressively heat molded (wtih padding on your foot, and really tight/cranked buckles)

do either or both, then see how it feels.

new boots, around the house = no real info

[AZskibum]

I would not say aggressively molded, but yeah. Heat molded by sports den SLC. He left the larger foot buckled looser on top of the foot to leave more room, if I recall.

I’m on snow for the first day tomorrow, so I’ll wait and see how they do without the footbeds, or with them, on the slopes.