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  1. #1751
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    Sep 2011
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    Front Range, CO
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    Coming back to this thread after 20 days on my boots (S/Max). I have had the shop heat mold the shells 3 times to expand room in my right boot. I've been (too?) conservative to avoid over doing it and still having some circulation/pain issues. I ski with the two toe buckles unbuckled but have to take the boot off after 3 hours of skiing to get some circulation back. The pressure is on top of the foot on the ridge (highpoint) between my ankle and big toe, and the sixth toe area. I'm thinking about baking them myself. How much foam padding do I want to use, and how tight do you buckle them? I love the performance from the heel and ankle hold and don't want to lose that.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    This shell is designed to be heat molded and it works well. It doesn't get bigger everywhere, only where there is pressure from your foot. If you've been able to ski a couple days in it, just heat molding the shell should be plenty; you can always do the liner later if needed but there isn't that much moldable foam in the forefoot of the liner and the shell moves better with a cold liner in place. Around 8 minutes @ 240 F. for the 120/130/130 Carbon.

  2. #1752
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcdawg View Post
    Coming back to this thread after 20 days on my boots (S/Max). I have had the shop heat mold the shells 3 times to expand room in my right boot. I've been (too?) conservative to avoid over doing it and still having some circulation/pain issues. I ski with the two toe buckles unbuckled but have to take the boot off after 3 hours of skiing to get some circulation back. The pressure is on top of the foot on the ridge (highpoint) between my ankle and big toe, and the sixth toe area. I'm thinking about baking them myself. How much foam padding do I want to use, and how tight do you buckle them? I love the performance from the heel and ankle hold and don't want to lose that.
    If they've been baked 3 times baking them again is not going to accomplish much. You need more volume; the way to do that is grind a few millimeters off the styrofoam bootboard (it's quite thick). Try 2mm at a time until it's tight but bearable.

    You may need to use a coathanger with a bent tip to get the bootboard out, they often use hot glue to stick the thing in the shell.

  3. #1753
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Front Range, CO
    Posts
    110
    Thanks for the input. I've been really conservative with the shell. Do you think a more aggressive bake (more foam, more pressure) would expand it? Or, is that a lost cause?

    Any tips on how to evenly grind the bootboard? Or, should I have the shop do that? Thanks!



    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    If they've been baked 3 times baking them again is not going to accomplish much. You need more volume; the way to do that is grind a few millimeters off the styrofoam bootboard (it's quite thick). Try 2mm at a time until it's tight but bearable.

    You may need to use a coathanger with a bent tip to get the bootboard out, they often use hot glue to stick the thing in the shell.

  4. #1754
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    6,420
    One thing I did on my Salomons was to cut the elastic of the top of my liner. Gave me a couple mm of room. Really helped to relive the pressure on the top of my foot.

  5. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcdawg View Post
    Thanks for the input. I've been really conservative with the shell. Do you think a more aggressive bake (more foam, more pressure) would expand it? Or, is that a lost cause?

    Any tips on how to evenly grind the bootboard? Or, should I have the shop do that? Thanks!
    If it's cooked in a standard K-Tech oven for 8 minutes or so with some foam over the instep, doing it more times still won't change a half liter boot into a liter boot.

    You take the boot board out and grind it on a bench mounted belt sander through the instep area; anyone with reasonable manual dexterity and a sander can do it.

  6. #1756
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    Sep 2011
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    It was cooked with a small piece of foam over the instep, but I get your point. Thanks for the info. I don't have a bench mounted sander but will try it with a belt sander.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    If it's cooked in a standard K-Tech oven for 8 minutes or so with some foam over the instep, doing it more times still won't change a half liter boot into a liter boot.

    You take the boot board out and grind it on a bench mounted belt sander through the instep area; anyone with reasonable manual dexterity and a sander can do it.

  7. #1757
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcdawg View Post
    It was cooked with a small piece of foam over the instep, but I get your point. Thanks for the info. I don't have a bench mounted sander but will try it with a belt sander.
    Try to clamp your sander down; you want to use 2 hands on the bootboard to get smooth results and not have it take off across the room.

  8. #1758
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Golden
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    Without knowing exactly how your shells were moulded previously, it’s impossible to say if it’s a lost cause. Grinding the boot board is easy but could also loosen your heel hold by dropping your down. Can be fixed with pinch pads. You can also grind your footbed down.

    To remind again, put a larger piece of foam on top of your instep. Also, put a shim/ bontex board under your footbed. Do up the lower buckles as loosely as you can. Doing the instep buckles up tight will actually flatten the boot. Don’t forget to remove the shim afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by slcdawg View Post
    Thanks for the input. I've been really conservative with the shell. Do you think a more aggressive bake (more foam, more pressure) would expand it? Or, is that a lost cause?

    Any tips on how to evenly grind the bootboard? Or, should I have the shop do that? Thanks!

  9. #1759
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post
    Without knowing exactly how your shells were moulded previously, it’s impossible to say if it’s a lost cause. Grinding the boot board is easy but could also loosen your heel hold by dropping your down. Can be fixed with pinch pads. You can also grind your footbed down.

    To remind again, put a larger piece of foam on top of your instep. Also, put a shim/ bontex board under your footbed. Do up the lower buckles as loosely as you can. Doing the instep buckles up tight will actually flatten the boot. Don’t forget to remove the shim afterwards.
    Good points, Golden.

    FWIW, I don't touch the back 3 inches of the bootboard when I grind it, just the middle section.
    Make sure you are cooking the shell long enough; Salomon's recommendation of 6 minutes isn't enough to really move the plastic well, I go 8 minutes with a pre-heated oven and 10 with a cold one. Every year they shorten the recommended time. like they think we're in a hurry to get customers out the door (actually the 13 minutes or so they're standing on a board is a great time to sell them some skis or something - and no, I don't use the cold packs).

  10. #1760
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    Front Range, CO
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    110
    The shop that baked them only put a small piece of foam (about 1" circle) and did not use a shim. So, hopefully some room to stretch. I'll give this a go on my own and then try to grind the boot board if no improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post
    Without knowing exactly how your shells were moulded previously, it’s impossible to say if it’s a lost cause. Grinding the boot board is easy but could also loosen your heel hold by dropping your down. Can be fixed with pinch pads. You can also grind your footbed down.

    To remind again, put a larger piece of foam on top of your instep. Also, put a shim/ bontex board under your footbed. Do up the lower buckles as loosely as you can. Doing the instep buckles up tight will actually flatten the boot. Don’t forget to remove the shim afterwards.

  11. #1761
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    Cackalacky
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    got my new hoji tours yesterday and the fit of the boot is pretty good. only problem is my calves. i can barely get the buckle onto the first rung. anyone else had this issue with a boot before? what can be done?
    In the room the women come and go
    Talking of Michelangelo

  12. #1762
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    1,215
    Quote Originally Posted by stealurface831 View Post
    got my new hoji tours yesterday and the fit of the boot is pretty good. only problem is my calves. i can barely get the buckle onto the first rung. anyone else had this issue with a boot before? what can be done?
    Can you move the ladder location?

  13. #1763
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    Aug 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_B View Post
    Can you move the ladder location?
    bingo. what i thought was a rivet was actually a chicago rivet that can be screwed out. problem solved.
    In the room the women come and go
    Talking of Michelangelo

  14. #1764
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Good points, Golden.

    FWIW, I don't touch the back 3 inches of the bootboard when I grind it, just the middle section.
    Make sure you are cooking the shell long enough; Salomon's recommendation of 6 minutes isn't enough to really move the plastic well, I go 8 minutes with a pre-heated oven and 10 with a cold one. Every year they shorten the recommended time. like they think we're in a hurry to get customers out the door (actually the 13 minutes or so they're standing on a board is a great time to sell them some skis or something - and no, I don't use the cold packs).
    This. Went from Hawx 2.0 to Hawx Prime S, couldnít find my old boot fitter, shop had closed, had another shop mold them, by the book, really meh, I have instep issues. This year, by luck found the old boot fitter was about 40 min away, took them there. He left both the liners and boots in the oven/blower forever, padded my instep, toe cap, etc, and itís like a whole different boot. Very happy, plastic really moved in a number of areas.


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

  15. #1765
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,954

    the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

    Ok first time caller long time listener.

    I skied the 2nd gen Cochise in a 110 flex for about 4-5 years with a Powerwrap. Probably about 200 days. And the main pivot developed some play so I decided to move on. I know they are a bit of a bucket in the heel area but with a powerwrap they worked great. I really liked them.

    I got the current Cochise at the end of last season in a 130 flex also powerwrap. Overall they are pretty good but I am chasing a couple of things. One is fit in a certain area and Iíll get to that. The other is flex.

    Iím struggling to get used to the flex of the new Cochise, maybe PU boots in general? Even though itís 130 vs the 110 of the previous version it just feels soft. I feel very deep down in the flex often while ripping cut up groomers and chop. Just unnerving.

    Iím thinking of ways to correct this, Iím going to try a booster strap vs the regular power strap, expert grade as Iím only 165lbs.

    I also have a tightness on the outside of my foot, a little back from the 5th met area. The new anatomical Cochise is pretty aggressive in narrowing down to the heel from the forefoot area and perhaps a bit much for my foot.

    So with these two factors Iím also thinking of a new boot. Iíve never been a Lange person as when I used to fit boots 20 years ago they were always narrow and low. But a post from a person with a similar foot shape in the scan app post who is in the RX shell has me thinking.

    So, can you guys offer some insight as to how the fit of the Lange RX in the 100mm last compares to the Cochise? Seems similar in width but perhaps the transition from forefoot to heel is not as abrupt. Iím ok with a little larger heel volume as the powerwrap generally fixes this.

    And then flex. How does the Tecnica to Lange flex compare. Iíd be putting a powerwrap in so Iím not that bothered about liners, and evo has the 120 RX for a great price. Am I just going to find these soft too and want the 130? Or is the booster strap likely to help with what I am feeling.

    Custom footbeds and self baked powerwraps, Iíve done about 12-13 pairs so pretty happy with my molds!

    All thoughts appreciated.

  16. #1766
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    All thoughts appreciated.
    Go 130, none of them (with the possible exception of the S/Max Carbon) are really that stiff.

    Go with a 97mm or 98mm last, none of them is really that narrow (and with your scan results 100mm is really too wide).

    Get over the idea that a boot needs to fit you out of the box, that's what bootfitters are for. If a boot is too narrow for you in a particular spot, make it wider.

    Lange figured out that if you only make narrow and low boots, a large percentage of the population won't buy your product. Their insteps are taller now and they make narrow, medium and wide lasts (as does everyone else).

    Hard to verbally compare two boots in terms of flex, and it isn't always proper to identify by brand. If you spend enough days on snow it might make sense to buy more than one, get the fit and stance dialed on both, and ski them back to back for a few weeks - chances are you'll discover a preference.

  17. #1767
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Golden
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    320
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    All thoughts appreciated.
    You thought the 130 was soft so you want to put a softer booster strap on to stiffen it up? I don’t follow your logic. Booster straps make it easier to initial the flex of a boot. Keep the rigid strap on and wear it higher up in the liner.

    While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. It’s still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because it’s not being over stretched all the time.

  18. #1768
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
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    1,015
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post
    You thought the 130 was soft so you want to put a softer booster strap on to stiffen it up? I don’t follow your logic. Booster straps make it easier to initial the flex of a boot. Keep the rigid strap on and wear it higher up in the liner.

    While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. It’s still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because it’s not being over stretched all the time.
    But that super tight expert feels oh so good

  19. #1769
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    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Go 130, none of them (with the possible exception of the S/Max Carbon) are really that stiff.

    Go with a 97mm or 98mm last, none of them is really that narrow (and with your scan results 100mm is really too wide).

    Get over the idea that a boot needs to fit you out of the box, that's what bootfitters are for. If a boot is too narrow for you in a particular spot, make it wider.

    Lange figured out that if you only make narrow and low boots, a large percentage of the population won't buy your product. Their insteps are taller now and they make narrow, medium and wide lasts (as does everyone else).

    Hard to verbally compare two boots in terms of flex, and it isn't always proper to identify by brand. If you spend enough days on snow it might make sense to buy more than one, get the fit and stance dialed on both, and ski them back to back for a few weeks - chances are you'll discover a preference.
    Missus: ď???Ē
    Me: ďYeah I donít know, but the boot fitter thought I should buy TWO pairs, so here we are...Ē


  20. #1770
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    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
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    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post
    You thought the 130 was soft so you want to put a softer booster strap on to stiffen it up? I donít follow your logic. Booster straps make it easier to initial the flex of a boot. Keep the rigid strap on and wear it higher up in the liner.

    While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. Itís still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because itís not being over stretched all the time.
    I guess what bothers me is how linear the flex feels. I donít mind how soft it is at the top but itís how deep into the flex it feels it goes. And then it feels like Iím over flexing the boot. I mean I canít be Iím 165lbs in a 130 flex boot so itís just perception.

    I was wondering if a booster might make this flex a bit more progressive rather than linear thatís all. Iím a total booster strap newbie.

  21. #1771
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    I guess what bothers me is how linear the flex feels. I don’t mind how soft it is at the top but it’s how deep into the flex it feels it goes. And then it feels like I’m over flexing the boot. I mean I can’t be I’m 165lbs in a 130 flex boot so it’s just perception.

    I was wondering if a booster might make this flex a bit more progressive rather than linear that’s all. I’m a total booster strap newbie.
    I define "progressive" as softer at the top (first 5-10 degrees) and getting steadily (progressing) stiffer the further you get into it - if you go through it too easily, it's simply "soft."

    Linear to me means you feel resistance right away, and the resistance stays the same (not really, but it's similar) all the way through the flex pattern.

    Again, there are stiffer and softer in each category, but a 130 in a modern boot is nowhere near what 130 was a decade ago (I am, or was, about your weight pre-COVID and there are few 130's I consider too stiff for me).

  22. #1772
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    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I define "progressive" as softer at the top (first 5-10 degrees) and getting steadily (progressing) stiffer the further you get into it - if you go through it too easily, it's simply "soft."

    Linear to me means you feel resistance right away, and the resistance stays the same (not really, but it's similar) all the way through the flex pattern.

    Again, there are stiffer and softer in each category, but a 130 in a modern boot is nowhere near what 130 was a decade ago (I am, or was, about your weight pre-COVID and there are few 130's I consider too stiff for me).
    Thanks Greg, yeah thatís the definition I work on too for linear and progressive.

    With you on flex. I used to ski the first generation Salomon X-Wave in 100 flex, that was plenty boot for me. Probably had that 15 years haha.

    Mach 1 Concept is looking more and more interesting...MV only which Iíd normally buy but you have me thinking of an LV and punches....

  23. #1773
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Mach 1 Concept is looking more and more interesting...MV only which I’d normally buy but you have me thinking of an LV and punches....
    I would guess they will produce an LV Concept once they get the LV molds with T-Drive going - wasatchback may know.

  24. #1774
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    LV-426
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post

    While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. Itís still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because itís not being over stretched all the time.
    How snug is a Booster strap supposed to be?
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  25. #1775
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    914

    the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

    Flex discussion above is interesting. Iím ~165lbs in a 130 flex. I often wonder if thats too much, not so much because of how it feels but because I wonder what clydes are skiing. Canít believe everyone over 190 or so is skiing a 140/150 race plug. Are manufacturers that top out at 130 in non plug performance boots telling me I should be in a softer boot? Am I likely to ski better with softer flex? Its expensive to just try and make a mistake.

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