the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[slcdawg]

Coming back to this thread after 20 days on my boots (S/Max). I have had the shop heat mold the shells 3 times to expand room in my right boot. I've been (too?) conservative to avoid over doing it and still having some circulation/pain issues. I ski with the two toe buckles unbuckled but have to take the boot off after 3 hours of skiing to get some circulation back. The pressure is on top of the foot on the ridge (highpoint) between my ankle and big toe, and the sixth toe area. I'm thinking about baking them myself. How much foam padding do I want to use, and how tight do you buckle them? I love the performance from the heel and ankle hold and don't want to lose that.

This shell is designed to be heat molded and it works well. It doesn't get bigger everywhere, only where there is pressure from your foot. If you've been able to ski a couple days in it, just heat molding the shell should be plenty; you can always do the liner later if needed but there isn't that much moldable foam in the forefoot of the liner and the shell moves better with a cold liner in place. Around 8 minutes @ 240 F. for the 120/130/130 Carbon.

[gregL]

Coming back to this thread after 20 days on my boots (S/Max). I have had the shop heat mold the shells 3 times to expand room in my right boot. I've been (too?) conservative to avoid over doing it and still having some circulation/pain issues. I ski with the two toe buckles unbuckled but have to take the boot off after 3 hours of skiing to get some circulation back. The pressure is on top of the foot on the ridge (highpoint) between my ankle and big toe, and the sixth toe area. I'm thinking about baking them myself. How much foam padding do I want to use, and how tight do you buckle them? I love the performance from the heel and ankle hold and don't want to lose that.

If they've been baked 3 times baking them again is not going to accomplish much. You need more volume; the way to do that is grind a few millimeters off the styrofoam bootboard (it's quite thick). Try 2mm at a time until it's tight but bearable.

You may need to use a coathanger with a bent tip to get the bootboard out, they often use hot glue to stick the thing in the shell.

[slcdawg]

Thanks for the input. I've been really conservative with the shell. Do you think a more aggressive bake (more foam, more pressure) would expand it? Or, is that a lost cause?

Any tips on how to evenly grind the bootboard? Or, should I have the shop do that? Thanks!

If they've been baked 3 times baking them again is not going to accomplish much. You need more volume; the way to do that is grind a few millimeters off the styrofoam bootboard (it's quite thick). Try 2mm at a time until it's tight but bearable.

You may need to use a coathanger with a bent tip to get the bootboard out, they often use hot glue to stick the thing in the shell.

[Supermoon]

One thing I did on my Salomons was to cut the elastic of the top of my liner. Gave me a couple mm of room. Really helped to relive the pressure on the top of my foot.

[gregL]

Thanks for the input. I've been really conservative with the shell. Do you think a more aggressive bake (more foam, more pressure) would expand it? Or, is that a lost cause?

Any tips on how to evenly grind the bootboard? Or, should I have the shop do that? Thanks!

If it's cooked in a standard K-Tech oven for 8 minutes or so with some foam over the instep, doing it more times still won't change a half liter boot into a liter boot.

You take the boot board out and grind it on a bench mounted belt sander through the instep area; anyone with reasonable manual dexterity and a sander can do it.

[slcdawg]

It was cooked with a small piece of foam over the instep, but I get your point. Thanks for the info. I don't have a bench mounted sander but will try it with a belt sander.

If it's cooked in a standard K-Tech oven for 8 minutes or so with some foam over the instep, doing it more times still won't change a half liter boot into a liter boot.

You take the boot board out and grind it on a bench mounted belt sander through the instep area; anyone with reasonable manual dexterity and a sander can do it.

[gregL]

It was cooked with a small piece of foam over the instep, but I get your point. Thanks for the info. I don't have a bench mounted sander but will try it with a belt sander.

Try to clamp your sander down; you want to use 2 hands on the bootboard to get smooth results and not have it take off across the room.

[GoldenBC]

Without knowing exactly how your shells were moulded previously, it’s impossible to say if it’s a lost cause. Grinding the boot board is easy but could also loosen your heel hold by dropping your down. Can be fixed with pinch pads. You can also grind your footbed down.

To remind again, put a larger piece of foam on top of your instep. Also, put a shim/ bontex board under your footbed. Do up the lower buckles as loosely as you can. Doing the instep buckles up tight will actually flatten the boot. Don’t forget to remove the shim afterwards.

Thanks for the input. I've been really conservative with the shell. Do you think a more aggressive bake (more foam, more pressure) would expand it? Or, is that a lost cause?

Any tips on how to evenly grind the bootboard? Or, should I have the shop do that? Thanks!

[gregL]

Without knowing exactly how your shells were moulded previously, it’s impossible to say if it’s a lost cause. Grinding the boot board is easy but could also loosen your heel hold by dropping your down. Can be fixed with pinch pads. You can also grind your footbed down.

To remind again, put a larger piece of foam on top of your instep. Also, put a shim/ bontex board under your footbed. Do up the lower buckles as loosely as you can. Doing the instep buckles up tight will actually flatten the boot. Don’t forget to remove the shim afterwards.

Good points, Golden.

FWIW, I don't touch the back 3 inches of the bootboard when I grind it, just the middle section.
Make sure you are cooking the shell long enough; Salomon's recommendation of 6 minutes isn't enough to really move the plastic well, I go 8 minutes with a pre-heated oven and 10 with a cold one. Every year they shorten the recommended time. like they think we're in a hurry to get customers out the door (actually the 13 minutes or so they're standing on a board is a great time to sell them some skis or something - and no, I don't use the cold packs).

[slcdawg]

The shop that baked them only put a small piece of foam (about 1" circle) and did not use a shim. So, hopefully some room to stretch. I'll give this a go on my own and then try to grind the boot board if no improvement.

Without knowing exactly how your shells were moulded previously, it’s impossible to say if it’s a lost cause. Grinding the boot board is easy but could also loosen your heel hold by dropping your down. Can be fixed with pinch pads. You can also grind your footbed down.

To remind again, put a larger piece of foam on top of your instep. Also, put a shim/ bontex board under your footbed. Do up the lower buckles as loosely as you can. Doing the instep buckles up tight will actually flatten the boot. Don’t forget to remove the shim afterwards.

[stealurface831]

got my new hoji tours yesterday and the fit of the boot is pretty good. only problem is my calves. i can barely get the buckle onto the first rung. anyone else had this issue with a boot before? what can be done?

[John_B]

got my new hoji tours yesterday and the fit of the boot is pretty good. only problem is my calves. i can barely get the buckle onto the first rung. anyone else had this issue with a boot before? what can be done?

Can you move the ladder location?

[stealurface831]

Can you move the ladder location?

bingo. what i thought was a rivet was actually a chicago rivet that can be screwed out. problem solved.

[ThreeRidges]

Good points, Golden.

FWIW, I don't touch the back 3 inches of the bootboard when I grind it, just the middle section.
Make sure you are cooking the shell long enough; Salomon's recommendation of 6 minutes isn't enough to really move the plastic well, I go 8 minutes with a pre-heated oven and 10 with a cold one. Every year they shorten the recommended time. like they think we're in a hurry to get customers out the door (actually the 13 minutes or so they're standing on a board is a great time to sell them some skis or something - and no, I don't use the cold packs).

This. Went from Hawx 2.0 to Hawx Prime S, couldn’t find my old boot fitter, shop had closed, had another shop mold them, by the book, really meh, I have instep issues. This year, by luck found the old boot fitter was about 40 min away, took them there. He left both the liners and boots in the oven/blower forever, padded my instep, toe cap, etc, and it’s like a whole different boot. Very happy, plastic really moved in a number of areas.


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[CaliBrit]

Ok first time caller long time listener.

I skied the 2nd gen Cochise in a 110 flex for about 4-5 years with a Powerwrap. Probably about 200 days. And the main pivot developed some play so I decided to move on. I know they are a bit of a bucket in the heel area but with a powerwrap they worked great. I really liked them.

I got the current Cochise at the end of last season in a 130 flex also powerwrap. Overall they are pretty good but I am chasing a couple of things. One is fit in a certain area and I’ll get to that. The other is flex.

I’m struggling to get used to the flex of the new Cochise, maybe PU boots in general? Even though it’s 130 vs the 110 of the previous version it just feels soft. I feel very deep down in the flex often while ripping cut up groomers and chop. Just unnerving.

I’m thinking of ways to correct this, I’m going to try a booster strap vs the regular power strap, expert grade as I’m only 165lbs.

I also have a tightness on the outside of my foot, a little back from the 5th met area. The new anatomical Cochise is pretty aggressive in narrowing down to the heel from the forefoot area and perhaps a bit much for my foot.

So with these two factors I’m also thinking of a new boot. I’ve never been a Lange person as when I used to fit boots 20 years ago they were always narrow and low. But a post from a person with a similar foot shape in the scan app post who is in the RX shell has me thinking.

So, can you guys offer some insight as to how the fit of the Lange RX in the 100mm last compares to the Cochise? Seems similar in width but perhaps the transition from forefoot to heel is not as abrupt. I’m ok with a little larger heel volume as the powerwrap generally fixes this.

And then flex. How does the Tecnica to Lange flex compare. I’d be putting a powerwrap in so I’m not that bothered about liners, and evo has the 120 RX for a great price. Am I just going to find these soft too and want the 130? Or is the booster strap likely to help with what I am feeling.

Custom footbeds and self baked powerwraps, I’ve done about 12-13 pairs so pretty happy with my molds!

All thoughts appreciated.

[gregL]

All thoughts appreciated.

Go 130, none of them (with the possible exception of the S/Max Carbon) are really that stiff.

Go with a 97mm or 98mm last, none of them is really that narrow (and with your scan results 100mm is really too wide).

Get over the idea that a boot needs to fit you out of the box, that's what bootfitters are for. If a boot is too narrow for you in a particular spot, make it wider.

Lange figured out that if you only make narrow and low boots, a large percentage of the population won't buy your product. Their insteps are taller now and they make narrow, medium and wide lasts (as does everyone else).

Hard to verbally compare two boots in terms of flex, and it isn't always proper to identify by brand. If you spend enough days on snow it might make sense to buy more than one, get the fit and stance dialed on both, and ski them back to back for a few weeks - chances are you'll discover a preference.

[GoldenBC]

All thoughts appreciated.

You thought the 130 was soft so you want to put a softer booster strap on to stiffen it up? I don’t follow your logic. Booster straps make it easier to initial the flex of a boot. Keep the rigid strap on and wear it higher up in the liner.

While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. It’s still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because it’s not being over stretched all the time.

[mr_pretzel]

You thought the 130 was soft so you want to put a softer booster strap on to stiffen it up? I don’t follow your logic. Booster straps make it easier to initial the flex of a boot. Keep the rigid strap on and wear it higher up in the liner.

While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. It’s still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because it’s not being over stretched all the time.

But that super tight expert feels oh so good

[CaliBrit]

Go 130, none of them (with the possible exception of the S/Max Carbon) are really that stiff.

Go with a 97mm or 98mm last, none of them is really that narrow (and with your scan results 100mm is really too wide).

Get over the idea that a boot needs to fit you out of the box, that's what bootfitters are for. If a boot is too narrow for you in a particular spot, make it wider.

Lange figured out that if you only make narrow and low boots, a large percentage of the population won't buy your product. Their insteps are taller now and they make narrow, medium and wide lasts (as does everyone else).

Hard to verbally compare two boots in terms of flex, and it isn't always proper to identify by brand. If you spend enough days on snow it might make sense to buy more than one, get the fit and stance dialed on both, and ski them back to back for a few weeks - chances are you'll discover a preference.

Missus: “???”
Me: “Yeah I don’t know, but the boot fitter thought I should buy TWO pairs, so here we are...”

[CaliBrit]

You thought the 130 was soft so you want to put a softer booster strap on to stiffen it up? I don’t follow your logic. Booster straps make it easier to initial the flex of a boot. Keep the rigid strap on and wear it higher up in the liner.

While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. It’s still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because it’s not being over stretched all the time.

I guess what bothers me is how linear the flex feels. I don’t mind how soft it is at the top but it’s how deep into the flex it feels it goes. And then it feels like I’m over flexing the boot. I mean I can’t be I’m 165lbs in a 130 flex boot so it’s just perception.

I was wondering if a booster might make this flex a bit more progressive rather than linear that’s all. I’m a total booster strap newbie.

[gregL]

I guess what bothers me is how linear the flex feels. I don’t mind how soft it is at the top but it’s how deep into the flex it feels it goes. And then it feels like I’m over flexing the boot. I mean I can’t be I’m 165lbs in a 130 flex boot so it’s just perception.

I was wondering if a booster might make this flex a bit more progressive rather than linear that’s all. I’m a total booster strap newbie.

I define "progressive" as softer at the top (first 5-10 degrees) and getting steadily (progressing) stiffer the further you get into it - if you go through it too easily, it's simply "soft."

Linear to me means you feel resistance right away, and the resistance stays the same (not really, but it's similar) all the way through the flex pattern.

Again, there are stiffer and softer in each category, but a 130 in a modern boot is nowhere near what 130 was a decade ago (I am, or was, about your weight pre-COVID and there are few 130's I consider too stiff for me).

[CaliBrit]

I define "progressive" as softer at the top (first 5-10 degrees) and getting steadily (progressing) stiffer the further you get into it - if you go through it too easily, it's simply "soft."

Linear to me means you feel resistance right away, and the resistance stays the same (not really, but it's similar) all the way through the flex pattern.

Again, there are stiffer and softer in each category, but a 130 in a modern boot is nowhere near what 130 was a decade ago (I am, or was, about your weight pre-COVID and there are few 130's I consider too stiff for me).

Thanks Greg, yeah that’s the definition I work on too for linear and progressive.

With you on flex. I used to ski the first generation Salomon X-Wave in 100 flex, that was plenty boot for me. Probably had that 15 years haha.

Mach 1 Concept is looking more and more interesting...MV only which I’d normally buy but you have me thinking of an LV and punches....

[gregL]

Mach 1 Concept is looking more and more interesting...MV only which I’d normally buy but you have me thinking of an LV and punches....

I would guess they will produce an LV Concept once they get the LV molds with T-Drive going - wasatchback may know.

[El Chupacabra]

While we are on the topic of booster straps, every adult man should buy the World Cup booster and nothing else. The World Cup and the expert have the exact same elastic but the World Cup has a rigid band engage after a certain amount of flex. It’s still way softer than the stock strap and you want that strap to support you at some point. Most people do up soft booster straps too tight, in search of support, and then tourniquet their leg. . It will also last longer because it’s not being over stretched all the time.

How snug is a Booster strap supposed to be?

[dcpnz]

Flex discussion above is interesting. I’m ~165lbs in a 130 flex. I often wonder if thats too much, not so much because of how it feels but because I wonder what clydes are skiing. Can’t believe everyone over 190 or so is skiing a 140/150 race plug. Are manufacturers that top out at 130 in non plug performance boots telling me I should be in a softer boot? Am I likely to ski better with softer flex? Its expensive to just try and make a mistake.