the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[gregL]

Is there a list of reputable mag-approved boot fitters?

No, but there should be. Someone start a thread!

[Cocximus]

Any tips for aggressively widening a boot upper for a woman's calf?

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[mntlion]

Any tips for aggressively widening a boot upper for a woman's calf?

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do you want it

1) lower ?

2) more upright?

3) larger circumferance?

4) are the boots too big for her (in the foot: what is the shell fit like?)

[Jvhowube]

No, but there should be. Someone start a thread!

I only ask because I got my boots some years ago at Surefoot here in town. I measure 26.2 and 26.4 cm and they threw me in a 26.5 Lange RX 130 LV. I have the custom footbed that takes up space and went for the "pro fit" custom liner where they make the foam really tight. It feels pretty good most of the time but on warm days and if I'm really pushing I can feel some space in the instep (I have very low insteps) and can definitely slide fore-aft a bit. Again, less of an issue most days when it's colder and when I crank the second buckle from the top.

I've found myself thinking about a 25.5 and if it would lessen some of this slop or make me feel that much better in my skis. And that's kinda why I'm keen to see a real, reputable fitter to pick the brain of someone who knows what I'm looking for / what I'm coming from.

FWIW I've done the shell fit and I have about 13ish mm between my bare heel and the back of the shell.

[gregL]

Any tips for aggressively widening a boot upper for a woman's calf?

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Lots. Which boot?

[gregL]

I only ask because I got my boots some years ago at Surefoot here in town. I measure 26.2 and 26.4 cm and they threw me in a 26.5 Lange RX 130 LV. I have the custom footbed that takes up space and went for the "pro fit" custom liner where they make the foam really tight. It feels pretty good most of the time but on warm days and if I'm really pushing I can feel some space in the instep (I have very low insteps) and can definitely slide fore-aft a bit. Again, less of an issue most days when it's colder and when I crank the second buckle from the top.

I've found myself thinking about a 25.5 and if it would lessen some of this slop or make me feel that much better in my skis. And that's kinda why I'm keen to see a real, reputable fitter to pick the brain of someone who knows what I'm looking for / what I'm coming from.

FWIW I've done the shell fit and I have about 13ish mm between my bare heel and the back of the shell.

I'm not going to second guess the Surefoot guys in Steamboat, but some fitters are better than others at every shop.

It also helps if you can convince the bootfitter you'll actually appreciate the difference in performance by going smaller, as it takes way more effort on their part to make the boot work. As it stands, 13mm isn't terrible for a shell fit and 3mm is pretty damn tight, so depending on the shape of your forefoot it will probably necessitate some toe length punches and maybe reduce your binding options.

As for your low instep, an older Lange or Salomon is a pretty good choice, the current lasts for both boots are taller in the instep.

[gregL]

PS Have you tried dropping in a 2mm sheet of Bontex?

[Jvhowube]

PS Have you tried dropping in a 2mm sheet of Bontex?

Is this for me?

[gregL]

Is this for me?

Yes, if everything feels good most of the time and it's just too roomy over the instep, try adding 2mm or so of Bontex (fiberboard shim) - ask your shop for some.

[Duffman]

Ok, kids and life have me lacking access to the fitters I've always used in VT, so time to join the party here.

Have an older Cochise 130 pro in a 27.5 with Intuition ProWrap 28 liners and instaprint footbeds. Liners are pretty used but stil usable. Shells are beat to shit. Managed to find the newer orange Cochise 130 Dyn 27.5 to replace them. With my OG boots, had to have the met heads punched on both sides of both feet and a big toe punch and grind for length on my longer right foot. Also needed a small Navicular punch on both feet. Use a 1/4 inch lift for stiff ankles, not fit.

New boots are roughly 1 finger shell fit , a bit tighter on the right foot which is slightly longer. Shell fit for width has the inside of the boot pressing on the met heads and inside of big toe ,but not unbearable. With the new stock liners, the width across the met heads is rough, only wearable for 10 min or so , and the instep pressure is also pretty intense. Heel and ankle and shin fit feels good. With the older intuition liners in, the instep fit is fine and while there is still some shell pressure on the inside ball of foot and medial big toe, and the other toes are in contact with the front of the shell, I can wear them around the house fairly comfortably.

So question time:.
1-Should any work be focused on the liner more than the shell? Could that get enough width ?FWIW, the original Cochise liner was a piece of shit and didn't work with me at all, hence the intuitions. This new one seems pretty nice so I'd like to make it work if possible. The difference in instep pressure is a big order of magnitude worse so the new stock liner though

1-As for the shell, punch vs Grind for met head width medially and big toe length. Which is better with this boot and this scenario ? Any other fit tips for this specific boot as far a instep pressure , ball of foot width and big toe length?

[robnow]

Step 1 - Punch, don’t grind. This was just mentioned in the last 20 posts or so. Only thicker race/plug boots can handle a grind.

Step 2 - Get a new pair of PowerWraps. The new Cochise already has 2-3 mm more of vertical space in the lower clog compared to the previous versions. I’m my experience and unexpectedly so, PWs work nicely on insteps…although it could take a couple bakes to get it there.

[TAFKALVS]

I think its a combination of a few things:

1.)My footbeds are plain WORE OUT. They are 10 years old at this point and as mntlion pointed out, probably letting my arch collapse. They were some cheap thin things that a fitter at an SIA show put me in to make my B3 plugs work as the boot itself supported my foot pretty well.. I had a bad experience with a pair of unweighted molded footbeds made by a retail employee (won't call them a bootfitter) so I have shied away from anything else, as the unweighted footbed made it feel like I was standing on top of a baseball and was very painful.

2.) incorrect liner for the boot(s), the Powerwraps are probably too high volume for the RX130 with my shell fit especially in the heel area which is forcing me forwards, exasperated by the poor fitbed fit.

3.) The 27.5 XT3 are probably too big/definitely don't match with the small liners I have molded to the RX. I should probably look at the 26.5

4.) Still looking for a long, low volume true touring boot. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Updates, after visting my fitter:

1.) He made me custom footbeds that are amazing and I had a 1/2 day skiing on them with no arch cramping or pain. Foot was locked in perfect.

2.) However the footbeds make my 26.5 boots way too tight with powerwraps. No space at all for the feet. Toes crushed. I'm pretty tight in the 26.5... to the point where it doesn't let the foot have any room to wiggle. We talked about maybe a different liner, like a zipfit corsa or a powerwrap plug, but I also am not feeling like I give up too much compared to the XT3 140 especially on soft snow, and the grip walk + tech fittings are nice to have on board. Wondering about a more race oriented boot for hardsnow, see point 5.

3.) The XT3 140 with a powerwrap and the custom foot beds = $$$... foot locked in, plenty of toe wiggle room, not hitting the front, ankle no longer rolling, no need to over buckle, and could ditch the shims from the boot. The tweener BSL (313) (yeah I know internal volume blah blah blah) seems to be pretty spot on for me. Also tried on the 130 flex Hawx in a 27.5, would also be a contender, fits well also a tweener BSL. (Hi onenerdykid!)

4.)Tried on the scarpa quattro... if you are looking for a low volume touring boot its a pretty nice fit for me. Curious if someone of the light Scarpa options like the F1 fit similar as that could work.

5.) Curious about next years Lange line-up if any of the fitters here have gotten any info or hands on with the fit... will it be on the XT3 type last/bsl program? Is the new RS140 95mm on the old or a new last?

[gregL]

1-Should any work be focused on the liner more than the shell? Could that get enough width ?FWIW, the original Cochise liner was a piece of shit and didn't work with me at all, hence the intuitions. This new one seems pretty nice so I'd like to make it work if possible. The difference in instep pressure is a big order of magnitude worse so the new stock liner though

No. If the lack of forefoot width is significant, you will need to punch the shell first, then stretch the liner as well in the same spot. The new Cochise liners are pretty nice. Instep pressure is relieved by doing one or more of the following: bootboard grind, thinning of footbed, remolding the instep with heat if you have the right tooling.

As for the shell, punch vs Grind for met head width medially and big toe length. Which is better with this boot and this scenario ? Any other fit tips for this specific boot as far a instep pressure , ball of foot width and big toe length?

Punch for both. Some bootfitters used to like to grind the old Cochise shells because they were thick and the Triax plastic would liquify easily on the surface before the rest of the shell was ready to punch, quite a PITA. Instep pressure fixes, see above.

[Jvhowube]

Yes, if everything feels good most of the time and it's just too roomy over the instep, try adding 2mm or so of Bontex (fiberboard shim) - ask your shop for some.

Welp my bootfitter offered to band-aid solution my current boots because he knows how much money I've sunk into them (surefoot) but I asked him honestly and he said I'd definitely appreciate just going straight to a smaller shell and working to get it fitting right. The shell size down in the Lange RS/RX was way too short so I tried on some other boots. Atomic Hawx felt ok, Salomon S/Pro Alpha 130 feels pretty dang good. Any of you guys have experience with that boot?

[gregL]

The shell size down in the Lange RS/RX was way too short so I tried on some other boots. Atomic Hawx felt ok, Salomon S/Pro Alpha 130 feels pretty dang good. Any of you guys have experience with that boot?

The S/Pro Alpha is awesome, especially for narrow ankles/lower legs, and eliminates the CoreFrame design that people sometimes could feel through the liner at midfoot and didn't punch well for big styloid issues, etc. Surprising that the Lange felt shorter, usually people feel Atomic runs shortest, Salomon and Lange longer. We are talking about 97-98mm wide lasts in all the boots?

[Phall]

Boots: Lange rs130 25.5, intuition wrap liner, booster straps ran on the inside of plastic. I've got the ladders on the 2nd to last hole inboard, so there is some room there, and I run the upper buckles on the third ladder of each, buckles are screwed nearly all the way down. I am needing to do a ton of leverage to get the buckles closed, and still sometimes I feel like I could use some more wrap/tightness on the upper part of the boot. I have a fitter I can head to and help me, but if anyone has any ideas to fix here at home, let me know. Debated throwing in some J pads on the heel. I seperated my AC joint September 2021 and the only thing to re-aggravate it is buckling my boots. Need to find a resolution so im not constantly in shoulder pain from buckling at the top of each run.

[Jvhowube]

The S/Pro Alpha is awesome, especially for narrow ankles/lower legs, and eliminates the CoreFrame design that people sometimes could feel through the liner at midfoot and didn't punch well for big styloid issues, etc. Surprising that the Lange felt shorter, usually people feel Atomic runs shortest, Salomon and Lange longer. We are talking about 97-98mm wide lasts in all the boots?

Atomic felt too narrow across the toes. The Lange RS just felt like a big toe crusher (too short) - I'm not sure if it's cause my heel doesn't go all the way into the pocket or what. The Salomon just felt the best (on my giant inner ankle bones and my toes - width and length). There might still be some work involved but it seems like the best candidate off the bat. And yeah these are all LV boots (97-98 mm lasts). I have another appointment tomorrow night.

Finger shell fit on all of these reveals going down from 2 fingers to a snug 1 (rough measurement) so I'm happy to finally be moving to boots that will perform.

My buddy who works at a different surefoot suggested that I also look into the nordica promachine. And he wants me to go to a different surefoot because he's not psyched that the one here fit me in this too-big boot. Not sure if they'd do anything for me at this point, and also already been hanging out with this other fitter in town.

[Stuntmonkey]

Question about womens boots! Wife switched from some 70 Flex Salomons to Roxa R3W 105s. First run out she had horrible calf pain and fatigue. Boot fitter loosened up the liner at the heel, above and at the calf to give her some more room.

Going for a ski tonight, if that doesn't fix it he said he will punch out the shell for even more room. I'm a little curious as to whether that is worth it or if we should probably just try different boots?

[gregL]

Atomic felt too narrow across the toes. The Lange RS just felt like a big toe crusher (too short) - I'm not sure if it's cause my heel doesn't go all the way into the pocket or what. The Salomon just felt the best (on my giant inner ankle bones and my toes - width and length). There might still be some work involved but it seems like the best candidate off the bat. And yeah these are all LV boots (97-98 mm lasts). I have another appointment tomorrow night.

Finger shell fit on all of these reveals going down from 2 fingers to a snug 1 (rough measurement) so I'm happy to finally be moving to boots that will perform.

My buddy who works at a different surefoot suggested that I also look into the nordica promachine. And he wants me to go to a different surefoot because he's not psyched that the one here fit me in this too-big boot. Not sure if they'd do anything for me at this point, and also already been hanging out with this other fitter in town.

Your bootfitter is supposed to mention that he/she can make any boot wider, any boot longer (within limits) and move the maleolus position on any boot. If they did not, that's a valid reason to try another fitter, not necessarily another shop. You should be concentrating on finding the boot that puts the ankle/lower leg/midfoot closest to the plastic and have them fix the tight spots. With the Salomon and Atomic, there is a good chance just doing the factory heat mold of the shell and liner may fix the problems.

[gregL]

PS "1 Finger" doesn't mean much unless I know how thick your finger is. Typical male fingers range from 10mm to 17mm, for instance . . .

[Jvhowube]

Thanks for all your insight during this process. Certainly helps to go in with info. The two guys in this shop each have been doing this for over 30 years so I trust them more than the surefoot bros. I think we're gonna get deeper into it tomorrow - confirming shell fits, heat molding, hot spot locating, etc. I'm pretty sure this is just the beginning of my journey, not the end. But It'll be good to have some knowledgeable fitters helping me out.

[gregL]

Thanks for all your insight during this process. Certainly helps to go in with info. The two guys in this shop each have been doing this for over 30 years so I trust them more than the surefoot bros. I think we're gonna get deeper into it tomorrow - confirming shell fits, heat molding, hot spot locating, etc. I'm pretty sure this is just the beginning of my journey, not the end. But It'll be good to have some knowledgeable fitters helping me out.

Sounds promising. Going into an established shop and seeking out the oldest, grumpiest bootfitter is usually a sound strategy.

[detrusor]

Looking to replace the stupid dial thing on those cheap Dalbello boots with a boa kit. I was figuring I could by the M3 kit and just replace it….am I missing something?


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[XXX-er]

PS "1 Finger" doesn't mean much unless I know how thick your finger is. Typical male fingers range from 10mm to 17mm, for instance . . .

Skin compresses, in the abscence of the Scarpa rectangle stick I always suggest using a sharpie permanent marker cuz the base is 15mm and they are pretty common

[Duffman]

What's the solution to cuff angle fit in a boot without adjustable cuffs? I'm a bit knock kneed and had the cuffs moved in on my OG Cochise, the new ones are rivit3d with no adjuster? Any way to address this? Does it matter that much?