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01-10-2020, 11:31 PM #1476Registered User
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- Dec 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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- 469
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01-11-2020, 12:00 AM #1477
Here is a weird one. Hoping someone can help me think through it.
I have a pair of 2014 Dalbello Krypton Pros with about 150 days on them.
In April of last year I started to have an issue on my medial malleolus in my left boot. Was worst pain when hiking, long traversing with right leg uphill, or walking in boot. So bad that I’d limp while walking in boot until i tightened buckled. Slightly tightening the middle buckle would help, no real issues skiing in the boot outside of hiking and traversing.
Stopped skiing at the end of April and had no issues with my ankle through the whole summer.
First day skiing this season back in November the pain was back, but not as bad. Then on 5th day skiing this year (Dec 26) things got really bad. Even with boot buckled perfectly, after a few hours of traversing and skiing powder my medial malleolus started to hurt so bad I had to stop skiing after a few hours. The pain feels like my ankle bone is literally on fire.
I went to my ski shop and they told me my intuition liner was shot and that I basically had bone on plastic contact. Decided to punch out the shell and add c pads around my ankle. Skied 2 days later and the pain only improved by about 10-15%. When I got home I proformed an intuition pro wrap liner.
Skied a few more times with little to no improvement while I waited for the liner to come. Then last Saturday i skied with a slightly thicker sock (well, one with slightly more padding around the ankle. Things improved 50% and I was able to ski most of the day.
The next day the new liner arrived, and now (thinking that it was just extra padding that I needed) I took the liner back to my ski shop. Since my footbeds were around 9 years old and were slightly soft around the arch I decided to have my shop mold me some new DFP podium plus insoles and then molded them into my new Pro Wrap.
Took them out today for the first day. Parking lot and lift felt great. Traversed high T to Christmas tree. By the Time I dropped in, my ankle was already starting to hurt. By middle way down I had to stop and rest my foot. By the time I got to the bottom of Collins I was limping back to my car, after only one run. Ankle felt 3x worse than ever.
What are my next steps?
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01-11-2020, 08:17 AM #1478
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01-11-2020, 02:08 PM #1479
Well, just made it back up today and tried a thicker sock, couldn’t even stand in boot in parking lot without a 9/10 pain.
Tried my old liner and it was an 8/10 pain.
Never injure my foot but now I’m wondering if it’s something physiological rather than my boot
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01-11-2020, 02:34 PM #1480King potato
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- BC
- Posts
- 1,923
Are you sure the punch is big enough and in the right spot? Take the liner out and put your foot in the boot with your footbed and try to line it up 50/50 front to back. Is the ankle touching the shell?
Since the old liners are better it sounds like you dont have enough room.
You should also try on some traditional overlap boots and see if it feels better. Dalbellos kill my ankle too
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01-12-2020, 08:11 AM #1481
Took the boot back in to the boot fitter today. Determined that I actually have two sore sports on my medial malleolus, and that my ankle bone is quite broad.
The boot fitter also did a 3D scan of my foot to determine the following:
Left foot is 106mm wide
Right foot is 108mm wide
Narrow Heels on both,
Both feet are exactly 275mm long
Both feet have identical height insteps of medium volume
Both medial malleolus are about 0.5 inches further forward than is normal.
My left foot pronates about 20 degrees while my right foot doesn’t pronate at all. Likely due to an 8 year old ankle injury.
Doing a shell fit we lined up the medial malleolus with where he punched it out last time and found that I’m actually pressing right on the ridge between the natural (and subsequently punched) ankle pocket and the natural pocket for the navicular. He is punching out the ridge between the two today.
We also put brand new foot beds in this week and he slightly canted the left one for me to help with the pronation.
He doesn’t recommend canting the boot since it already has significant wear on the sole.
His advice was that we fix this boot issue with punching and this new intuition liner and get 50-100 more days out of it.
He then said for the next boot, knowing everything we do about my foot from the 3D scan, that we should look at a medium volume 130 flex boot with a narrow ankle and a zip fit liner and I’ll be much happier. I haven’t been in a 4 buckle boot or a non-intuition liner for 10+ years so that might be interesting
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01-12-2020, 08:20 AM #1482King potato
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
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- BC
- Posts
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Glad it looks like you’re getting it sorted out.
I also went from 3/piece intuition to race plus with a zipfit and it is amazing. So much power and control.
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01-12-2020, 10:22 AM #1483
123ski-
That's some really good information- could I ask where you had the 3D done and what were the costs involved? PM if you don't want to post here. Thanks and good luck with them."if you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind..."
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01-14-2020, 07:20 PM #1484
What are the pros using to glue foam to liners? Epoxy? Super glue? I need to add some padding in the ankle area of my liners, but past experience suggests that I'll need something better than the peel/stick adhesive that's already on the foam.
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01-14-2020, 07:43 PM #1485
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01-14-2020, 07:46 PM #1486
Sports Den in Salt Lake. Cost seems to be built into boot fitting process. Ask for Curtis or mike
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01-14-2020, 07:48 PM #1487
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01-17-2020, 07:19 AM #1488
mntlion/gregL; what's a good quick fix and then what's the best long term fix of a cuff alignment problem? I have the non adjustable Vulcans and i've concluded that an inside ski/inside edge engagement/weighting challenge is caused by boots that are just a bit too set to fit more bowlegged skiers than myself. Did some a/b comparos with adjustable cuff scarpa maestrales and garmont deliriums and the issue went away with a more neutral/upright setting. With those boots, could more effectively engage the inside ski/inside edge, feather the edge and didn't feel as 'locked' on the downhill ski inside edge in a wide spectrum of test conditions.
things i'm thinking of trying:
- stuffing socks between liner/shell to change the alignment of liner vs shell
- heating liner and compressing foam on inboard side of shaft
- heating scaffo, clamping it down and trying to lean the carbon cuff over and trying to bend/shape things more neutral
....no clue what might work, what might wreck the boots; don't wanna risk damage to boots and/or waste time guessing at it. Thanks for any tips!Last edited by swissiphic; 01-17-2020 at 08:54 AM.
Master of mediocrity.
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01-17-2020, 08:00 AM #1489
can you drill out the non-adjustable side cuffs and replace with an adjustable one?
this is assuming you have a good, custom, supportive footbed? have you tired shimming that a bit more?
I think the heating the cuff would be a doable option.
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01-17-2020, 08:59 AM #1490
can you drill out the non-adjustable side cuffs and replace with an adjustable one?
- sure, any hints on what might fit/where I can obtain those parts?
this is assuming you have a good, custom, supportive footbed? have you tired shimming that a bit more?
- yes, foot bed is good, always tweaking it in response to changes in liner packing out differently with different pack loads, temp ranges or dh/vs/ski touring variances in pressure locations. high volume intuition luxury liners...the squish underfoot insulates well but does weird things with packing out while skiing/rebounding when drying in warmer environments.
I think the heating the cuff would be a doable option.
- okay, cool. Where would you target the heat and in what sequence of steps?Master of mediocrity.
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01-17-2020, 09:04 AM #1491
I strip parts from dead/warranty boots? Do you have a shop near you? I might be able to find/ship parts?
So this is permanent, so go slow.
look at the side of your calf, and bend the shell, based on the calf shape you are trying to match. I would use a pant stripping gun, or dunk in very hot water, click into a ski that is held flat, and bend my leg over (boot on edge) Get someone to pack with snow to cool it and see what that does.
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01-17-2020, 09:16 AM #1492
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01-17-2020, 09:22 AM #1493Registered User
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Posts
- 665
Search Wildsnow cuff rivet for how to-
https://www.wildsnow.com/?s=cuff+rivet
Most touring boots don't offer cuff alignment because it affects the lock mechanism. You may have to file out the slot where the lock stud goes into the hole to allow locking.
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01-17-2020, 09:33 AM #1494
Good point. Will have to carefully consider any changes in shell/cuff and how that would affect said male/female part mating....especially important considering the whole area has been modified for a custom adjustable stiffness/forward flex mod that has changed the boots' flex feel completely...don't wanna compromise that in any fashion.
Master of mediocrity.
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01-17-2020, 09:15 PM #1495Registered User
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Posts
- 665
Male female part mating
Phrase is woody inducing
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01-17-2020, 10:31 PM #1496
I would say shim under the binding, it's fairly quick and permanent until you switch skis.
I doubt heating the cuff will do much on a Vulcan, as the carbon/acrylic resin doesn't really get softer when hot. As turnfarmer notes, altering the cuff rivets may change the alignment of the top buckle peg so your lean lock no longer works . . .
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01-18-2020, 07:50 AM #1497
Okay, noted about potential/probable futility of reshaping rear cuff and/or changing cuff rivets...other issue i hadn't considered is the internal rear internal spoiler alignment would probably get skewed if only the cuff was re aligned.
As for canting bindings, also a possibility, though was hoping to focus on the boots not skis...rolling a quiver of about 5 pairs, all with tech binders. Have a few others with regular dh clamps, might be a good first step in temporary testing to see if canting binding would give the results i'm lookin' for.
Did a hasty test yesterday inserting a wedge shaped rear cuff spoiler between shell and liner at the 3 oclock position, laterally. Definite improvement but hard to really tell, due to mostly weird skiing facets, windslab/windcrust and i was testing out some new non field removable tail extenders on skis that likely affected how turn engagement and finish felt. Not optimal test conditions.
I think considering the time investment, risk/reward ratio for any more extensive mods to the Vulcans...prolly best just to call it and buy new boots. Anyone selling Tecnica Zero G Tour Pros in a size 25.5 for cheap in canadian pesos? Donations also accepted, lol; boots will be test subjects for extensive mods including the next refined version of the adjustable forward flex stiffness mechansim.Master of mediocrity.
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01-18-2020, 05:50 PM #1498
Ok gents: 3 visits with reputable fitters have left me still in screaming pain most every day, so tapping the collective...
Main issue is extreme pain across lower outside of foot below 5th met - whatever those muscles are called.
I have good shell fit good width, intuitions and instaprints done by a good fitter.
Pain is worst on long traverses or long groomer runs.
1)BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?
Better looser but when loose enough to reduce the pain I can’t ski. Too little control, everything gets knocked around too much.
2)BOW with thinner or thicker socks?
Better thinner. Best with compression.
3)BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?
For the first time today I tried removing the footbeds and skiing with just the liners - no footbed. Zero pain but too much slop. For reference with beds in, I’m usually on first/second stop on buckles. With them out I had every buckle cranked to the last stop.
This was a net gain vs with the beds but not sustainable.
Also: If I put the beds on the floor, stand on them, and weight forward, the pain kicks in in the same area. Without even being in a boot.
4)BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?
Better unweighted.
5)BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)
Starts run 1.
Strangely (to me) if I take boots off at lunch, put them back on after, slightly better rest of day.
6)BOW on the first vs the third day?
No change.
7)BOW on harder or easier terrain?
No change. Worse when not pointed fall line maybe.
8)BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?
No change
9)BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?
Not really.
10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?[/QUOTE]
Does getting older count? Beds are 5 years old.
As I type this it feels like answer is “new beds duh”. ?
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01-18-2020, 07:10 PM #1499
Does getting older count? Beds are 5 years old.
As I type this it feels like answer is “new beds duh”. ?[/QUOTE]
thanks for answering questions
sounds like the foot bed is either a bit too thick, or the wrong shape? maybe try a similar thickness, but flat footbed and see what that is like?
idea is the toe buckles VERY lightly done up, and 100% control. sounds like the boots might be a bit loose overall too.
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01-19-2020, 08:58 AM #1500
Thanks!
Overall volume/fit is good (when I say last stop it’s on the outermost bolt hole of 3).
Would you recommend just doing super feet as a less $$$ test for a flatter bed?
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