the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[gregL]

This is really the crux of my question. I'd love to go with the Maestrale or the bigger Hoji if the bootfitter can make the fit a little better. Is this possible with a boot that has a good shell fit but doesn't quite have the heel hold/ankle hold?

You can't really shrink the ankle fit of either (looser fit on the Maestrale), and lots of people have problems with the leading edge of the shell (malleolus conflicts). In general, with the exception of swapping liners or adding "J" or "C" bars, ankle/heel retention only gets worse with use (not counting heat molding an OEM liner).

Alternatively, the Hoji 26.5 fits like a glove, but I would need to expand the instep. My bootfitter is saying that will be difficult, they would need to expand the plastic and move the ankle ratchet by drilling a hole and adding a rivet. I was originally going down this route but not feeling confident we can make it work.

Yes, getting more instep height in the Hoji isn't really a thing. No bootboard to grind, you just have to chop away at the liner/footbed, etc. and that is pretty limited. Lange is coming out with the XT3 Tour Pro, a lighter version of the XT3 with a 99mm last (in between the LV and regular last). I weighed a friend's 27.5 at 1583 grams, walk mode seems to be mechanically the same but range of movement seems better with the new liner.

PS I don't really tour in the XT3 LV 130 because I also own the Zero G Tour Pro which is about a pound lighter and has a better walk mode . . . I just like the way the XT3 skis and use it most days on the lifts unless I'm driving a heavy ski with a bunch of metal in it.

[slcdawg]

You can't really shrink the ankle fit of either (looser fit on the Maestrale), and lots of people have problems with the leading edge of the shell (malleolus conflicts). In general, with the exception of swapping liners or adding "J" or "C" bars, ankle/heel retention only gets worse with use (not counting heat molding an OEM liner).



Yes, getting more instep height in the Hoji isn't really a thing. No bootboard to grind, you just have to chop away at the liner/footbed, etc. and that is pretty limited. Lange is coming out with the XT3 Tour Pro, a lighter version of the XT3 with a 99mm last (in between the LV and regular last). I weighed a friend's 27.5 at 1583 grams, walk mode seems to be mechanically the same but range of movement seems better with the new liner.

PS I don't really tour in the XT3 LV 130 because I also own the Zero G Tour Pro which is about a pound lighter and has a better walk mode . . . I just like the way the XT3 skis and use it most days on the lifts unless I'm driving a heavy ski with a bunch of metal in it.

Thanks for the info.

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[slcdawg]

Have you tried the Tecnica Zero G Tour Scout?

I recall this fit very similar to the Lange XT3 (maybe why you have both?) but seemed to be similar to the Lange (50/50 boot) with a little better walk mode and a bigger price tag. I didn't realize it was a pound lighter. I'll give it another look.

Is Sportiva worth looking at? I am not very familiar with their line and don't have a local retailer (would prob order online). I know they are more touring focused, and prob need a 120 flex for my skis (volkl blaze 106).

[hardboiled]

This is on the shin itself and not the malleolus (ankle bone)? I would ask you to show up in person so I could look at your leg and the boot/liner . . . doesn't sound like something I can fix over the Internet.

thanks Greg. I attached a couple pics - the swelling has gone down since those pics but there's still a pronounced bump on the front of my leg. its in the center of my leg and a bit above the ankle, so it doesn't seem like an ankle issue. seems to be shin bone or soft tissue in front of the leg (not much there) or the tendon that connects the foot to the lower leg. I went back to my bootfitter, whose thought was to cut a small hole in the plastic of the liner tongue where the lump is, to try to relieve pressure. He was going to call Lange first to see if they'd heard of this issue (someone else in the XT3 140 thread in tech talk has the same issue as me) but I haven't heard yet if Lange had other ideas. I'd be open to trying a new liner too, Intuition or whatever else is on par, but hoping that I can make these boots work as I really like the way they ski. I like my bootfitter and think he's pretty good but putting this out there in case you or others have other ideas I should suggest.

[gregL]

thanks Greg. I attached a couple pics - the swelling has gone down since those pics but there's still a pronounced bump on the front of my leg. its in the center of my leg and a bit above the ankle, so it doesn't seem like an ankle issue. seems to be shin bone or soft tissue in front of the leg (not much there) or the tendon that connects the foot to the lower leg. I went back to my bootfitter, whose thought was to cut a small hole in the plastic of the liner tongue where the lump is, to try to relieve pressure. He was going to call Lange first to see if they'd heard of this issue (someone else in the XT3 140 thread in tech talk has the same issue as me) but I haven't heard yet if Lange had other ideas. I'd be open to trying a new liner too, Intuition or whatever else is on par, but hoping that I can make these boots work as I really like the way they ski. I like my bootfitter and think he's pretty good but putting this out there in case you or others have other ideas I should suggest.

Ouch. That's not normal. I'd try as your bootfitter suggested; squash the shit out of the tongue foam with a lever press and then cut a circle over the area (locating it accurately is key). If not, a liner with a lot of molding potential like a Tour Wrap molded with a double thickness of foam over the bump to create a pocket . . .

[gregL]

I recall this fit very similar to the Lange XT3 (maybe why you have both?) but seemed to be similar to the Lange (50/50 boot) with a little better walk mode and a bigger price tag. I didn't realize it was a pound lighter. I'll give it another look.

Is Sportiva worth looking at? I am not very familiar with their line and don't have a local retailer (would prob order online). I know they are more touring focused, and prob need a 120 flex for my skis (volkl blaze 106).

I'd call the Zero G a 70/30 boot, with the 70 being the touring end of the spectrum. Substantially lighter and with more ROM than the XT3. Fit is really between the 97mm and 100mm Langes.

Which La Sportiva? I don't own the Skorpius and couldn't get the 26.5 on over my instep, so not much I can offer on that.

[slcdawg]

Wow, no one else had boot questions late last season. Coming back full circle, DF has a newly designed Radical Pro. Its very similar to the Hoji Pro Tour but they fixed the low instep issue. Its a great fit all around, I'm glad I waited.

Quick question: The shell fit is about 1.5-1.7cm. It fits very similar to my alpine boots, snug but not uncomfortable. Is that about right for a 100% touring boot? Thank you!

[gregL]

Quick question: The shell fit is about 1.5-1.7cm. It fits very similar to my alpine boots, snug but not uncomfortable. Is that about right for a 100% touring boot? Thank you!

It's fine. You won't be happy in a 5mm fit, and the 25mm fit is going to be sloppy. Those are the other two choices, we are talking about ski boots.

Possible exceptions: #1 You have an extremely low volume foot and want to drop a mondo size to lose 2mm in width - you will have to find a bootfitter willing/able to make the boot longer and not use anything but a tech binding with good clearance at the toe. #2 You are planning to spend a couple weeks at altitude in very cold weather, and need to size up to wear multiple socks an drop a thicker liner in.

[slcdawg]

It's fine. You won't be happy in a 5mm fit, and the 25mm fit is going to be sloppy. Those are the other two choices, we are talking about ski boots.

Great. Thank you!

[slcdawg]

QQ: Shopping for boots for my 11 year old boy. He's a skinny 95lbs, 5'1". Aggressive off-piste skier, skis the whole mountain, straightlines bumps, etc - but not a racer. Is it ok to go with the standard youth boot 60-65 flex, or better to move up to a 90 flex? My gut says stick with 60flex. Thanks.

[gregL]

QQ: Shopping for boots for my 11 year old boy. He's a skinny 95lbs, 5'1". Aggressive off-piste skier, skis the whole mountain, straightlines bumps, etc - but not a racer. Is it ok to go with the standard youth boot 60-65 flex, or better to move up to a 90 flex? My gut says stick with 60flex. Thanks.

I would shoot for something in between. If he's a 23-23.5, there is a Redster Club Sport 70 LC (low cuff) that might work, or the Lange XT3 80 . . .

[slcdawg]

Thanks. He's a 25.5. I'll check them out.

I would shoot for something in between. If he's a 23-23.5, there is a Redster Club Sport 70 LC (low cuff) that might work, or the Lange XT3 80 . . .

[JayPowHound]

Hoping some of the boot gurus can help with advice for my kids.. 11, 9 and 7. All have been skiing off and on since 4 but never in any formal program let alone racing.

Wondering about shell fit sizing. Is it similar to adults (1-2 fingers?)

What do I need to measure / look for to make sure whatever cheap used stuff I can find is appropriately sized?

[gregL]

Hoping some of the boot gurus can help with advice for my kids.. 11, 9 and 7. All have been skiing off and on since 4 but never in any formal program let alone racing.

Wondering about shell fit sizing. Is it similar to adults (1-2 fingers?)

What do I need to measure / look for to make sure whatever cheap used stuff I can find is appropriately sized?

You only fit kids like adults if they ski like adults, and then their coach will likely tell you they need to size down. You also need to be ready to buy more than 1 pair of boots a year. Otherwise, it's more important that they're able to ski comfortably all day (plus they will grow during the season). For average kids at the beginning of the season, I normally measure them on the Brannock (you can measure out from the wall in centimeters) and add 1 cm to find their size.

Also, there are few choices in last width/volume in kids boots until you get to the junior race category, and cheaper kids boots are difficult to work on because the plastic (normally polyolefin) doesn't punch or grind well.

Remember that shell fit is proportional to foot size; a 15mm shell fit is pretty generous for a 22.5 foot but tight on a 29.5 foot. (Don't think in terms of fingers, average finger thickness at the nail in male bootfitters varies from around 9mm to around 16mm)

[DarthMarkus]

Hoping some of the boot gurus can help with advice for my kids.. 11, 9 and 7. All have been skiing off and on since 4 but never in any formal program let alone racing.

Wondering about shell fit sizing. Is it similar to adults (1-2 fingers?)

What do I need to measure / look for to make sure whatever cheap used stuff I can find is appropriately sized?

My experience is that kids' weight-to-height ratio plays a factor in letting the padding of a boot do a good amount of work - less need for dialing in the shell to a kid. Just make sure you can lock that heel down and I think you can give some extra space in other parts of the boot shell.

If your kid is racing, or super athletic, or pushing puberty, you'll probably need to dial in the boot more and you'll probably spend more money. There's probably some benefit to a kid's learning curve by really dialing in a boot, but I think most kids don't wanna deal with tight or cold boots and the benefit may not outweigh the cost.

Couple other factors to consider: gangly kids can have a hard time with boots when their skinny legs are out of proportion with their height, and can make it kinda rough getting the volume out around their ankle & tib/fib; options on boots become a bit limited when this is the case. It can also be hard to get the boot cuff height correct as well as the flex of a boot when kids are in that 12-14 age range - typically when they need to go to adult sizing for length, but are lacking in any foot/leg volume. IME, Lange makes some good options for transition boots, and lower flex Cabrio boots also make great options.

There should be a thread here passing along gear for kiddos, may be worth looking into.

[JayPowHound]

My experience is that kids' weight-to-height ratio plays a factor in letting the padding of a boot do a good amount of work - less need for dialing in the shell to a kid. Just make sure you can lock that heel down and I think you can give some extra space in other parts of the boot shell.

If your kid is racing, or super athletic, or pushing puberty, you'll probably need to dial in the boot more and you'll probably spend more money. There's probably some benefit to a kid's learning curve by really dialing in a boot, but I think most kids don't wanna deal with tight or cold boots and the benefit may not outweigh the cost.

Couple other factors to consider: gangly kids can have a hard time with boots when their skinny legs are out of proportion with their height, and can make it kinda rough getting the volume out around their ankle & tib/fib; options on boots become a bit limited when this is the case. It can also be hard to get the boot cuff height correct as well as the flex of a boot when kids are in that 12-14 age range - typically when they need to go to adult sizing for length, but are lacking in any foot/leg volume. IME, Lange makes some good options for transition boots, and lower flex Cabrio boots also make great options.

There should be a thread here passing along gear for kiddos, may be worth looking into.

I'm in that thread, thanks. No racing or formal programs so doing the best I can without guidance.. Definitely not looking to have custom work done (yet)

Just trying to make sure shells are appropriately sized.

[detrusor]

Thought I’d toss this here. I have Lange xt 130 free tour LV boots (lime green)that need a little room n the 6th toe area. Just a bit 1-2 mm I bet. I’m not sure how thick the shells are for grinding or should I punch them out? Thanks!


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[mntlion]

Thought I’d toss this here. I have Lange xt 130 free tour LV boots (lime green)that need a little room n the 6th toe area. Just a bit 1-2 mm I bet. I’m not sure how thick the shells are for grinding or should I punch them out? Thanks!


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stretch to make sure that is what you want. Its reverisible if you are wrong.

[detrusor]

Thanks!


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[gregL]

Thought I’d toss this here. I have Lange xt 130 free tour LV boots (lime green)that need a little room n the 6th toe area. Just a bit 1-2 mm I bet. I’m not sure how thick the shells are for grinding or should I punch them out? Thanks!


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What mntlion says. That shell is thin Grilamid and you'll likely get only about 1mm by grinding and the possibilty of fucking it up is high.

[Reformed]

It might be new touring boot time for my lady. I am therefore looking for input/confirmation from the collective to help steer the ship.
She is: ~125 LBS, confident in most snow/terrain, light on her feet and relies on technique and speed control more than momentum and strength. Not overly aggressive, but rarely shies away from a line. Her feet measure ~235 in length, are very narrow (~90 mm) with low volume heals/ankle and a moderately high instep.
She is currently in generation 1 Scarpa Gea RS in the 22.5/23 shell (bsl 271) for touring and the women's version of the gen 1 Dalbello Krypto Pros in a 23/23.5 (BSL 276) with Intuition Luxary HV liners for the hill. Both boots fit reasonably well/don't cause too much complaining. Gea RS is getting tired and leaves her wanting more boot in difficult/stiff snow conditions. Of the boots out there right now I am thinking a Hawx Ultra 115 makes the most sense in terms of volume and potential for ski performance improvement over the RS. Local shop only has the Prime, but it was OK for length and not horrific for fit otherwise. Zero G was loose around her ankle, Scott was softer than the old RS, new Gea RS was OK-ish, but might not be much of a step forward from a ski performance perspective, Dynafit boots weren't available in the correct size, but seem fairly high volume across the board. Not really looking to go lighter than the RS, so lower volume/lighter boots like Dalbello Quantum etc. aren't really on the radar.

[Jtlange]

It might be new touring boot time for my lady. I am therefore looking for input/confirmation from the collective to help steer the ship.
She is: ~125 LBS, confident in most snow/terrain, light on her feet and relies on technique and speed control more than momentum and strength. Not overly aggressive, but rarely shies away from a line. Her feet measure ~235 in length, are very narrow (~90 mm) with low volume heals/ankle and a moderately high instep.
She is currently in generation 1 Scarpa Gea RS in the 22.5/23 shell (bsl 271) for touring and the women's version of the gen 1 Dalbello Krypto Pros in a 23/23.5 (BSL 276) with Intuition Luxary HV liners for the hill. Both boots fit reasonably well/don't cause too much complaining. Gea RS is getting tired and leaves her wanting more boot in difficult/stiff snow conditions. Of the boots out there right now I am thinking a Hawx Ultra 115 makes the most sense in terms of volume and potential for ski performance improvement over the RS. Local shop only has the Prime, but it was OK for length and not horrific for fit otherwise. Zero G was loose around her ankle, Scott was softer than the old RS, new Gea RS was OK-ish, but might not be much of a step forward from a ski performance perspective, Dynafit boots weren't available in the correct size, but seem fairly high volume across the board. Not really looking to go lighter than the RS, so lower volume/lighter boots like Dalbello Quantum etc. aren't really on the radar.

I think the Hawx Ultra XTD is the right call. Really moldable boot if there are some small issues here and there. Plus, it skis really well.

[mntlion]

great go wtih the atomic.

Maybe try the nordica strider too?

[dub2]

Anyone notice much of a difference skiing resort with a cochise vs a mach1 or lange RX? Does the addition of a walk mode really affect performance much? I am considering moving from the cochise to a dedicated resort boot in addition to a dedicated BC boot.

[DarthMarkus]

Anyone notice much of a difference skiing resort with a cochise vs a mach1 or lange RX? Does the addition of a walk mode really affect performance much? I am considering moving from the cochise to a dedicated resort boot in addition to a dedicated BC boot.

I have experience with the mach1 130lv, Cochise 130, and the Lange XT3 140. Volume is by far what I notice most, but I also have pretty low volume ankles. Otherwise there's a pretty noticable difference for me with the rivoted cuff on the mach1; on an intuitive level, I initiate turns just thinking about it. Practically, it's likely due to small movements translating directly into the ski.

Between the lock on the XT3 and the Cochise I would say they're fairly similar in terms of forward flex. Maybe a slight difference in favor of the Cochise in lateral translation. Forward lean is more aggressive on the XT3.

Keep in mind that I haven't been using current generation cochises, I have the ones from 2016 I think. Have a 21/22 model in the box... Waiting till I get a few miles on my zero Gs before I decide if I wanna keep em.

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