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  1. #1476
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    Oct 2003
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    so if you can wear them inside, or skiing easy stuff, with no issues, but harder snow/conditions make it worse, it might be technique issue?

    Add a shim behind the calf, (glove, sock, etc) to push your lower leg forward, and see if its BOW? (limiting and less ankle range of motion) if that makes it worse, mod the boot to be the opposite.

    take an hour long lesson and see what the instructor has to say?

    also stretch the calf out before skiing. Elevate your toes/forefoot, and stretch forward a few times, hold for 30 sec each side


  2. #1477
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    Dec 2006
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    Seattle, WA
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    450
    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    so if you can wear them inside, or skiing easy stuff, with no issues, but harder snow/conditions make it worse, it might be technique issue?

    Add a shim behind the calf, (glove, sock, etc) to push your lower leg forward, and see if its BOW? (limiting and less ankle range of motion) if that makes it worse, mod the boot to be the opposite.

    take an hour long lesson and see what the instructor has to say?

    also stretch the calf out before skiing. Elevate your toes/forefoot, and stretch forward a few times, hold for 30 sec each side
    thanks. actually have a private in a few weeks... and will do some experimenting with the shim in the meantime.

  3. #1478
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJ62 View Post
    Boots are Lange RC130s that were fitted / molded / punched to me (with a custom footbed) by one of the four guys in Seattle that everyone goes to.
    Who are these four guys?

  4. #1479
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Who are these four guys?
    You (Evo), Jim Mates, Kelley Timmons and whoever the guy is at Sturtevants. Am I missing anyone?

  5. #1480
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Utah
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    Here is a weird one. Hoping someone can help me think through it.

    I have a pair of 2014 Dalbello Krypton Pros with about 150 days on them.

    In April of last year I started to have an issue on my medial malleolus in my left boot. Was worst pain when hiking, long traversing with right leg uphill, or walking in boot. So bad that Iíd limp while walking in boot until i tightened buckled. Slightly tightening the middle buckle would help, no real issues skiing in the boot outside of hiking and traversing.

    Stopped skiing at the end of April and had no issues with my ankle through the whole summer.

    First day skiing this season back in November the pain was back, but not as bad. Then on 5th day skiing this year (Dec 26) things got really bad. Even with boot buckled perfectly, after a few hours of traversing and skiing powder my medial malleolus started to hurt so bad I had to stop skiing after a few hours. The pain feels like my ankle bone is literally on fire.

    I went to my ski shop and they told me my intuition liner was shot and that I basically had bone on plastic contact. Decided to punch out the shell and add c pads around my ankle. Skied 2 days later and the pain only improved by about 10-15%. When I got home I proformed an intuition pro wrap liner.

    Skied a few more times with little to no improvement while I waited for the liner to come. Then last Saturday i skied with a slightly thicker sock (well, one with slightly more padding around the ankle. Things improved 50% and I was able to ski most of the day.

    The next day the new liner arrived, and now (thinking that it was just extra padding that I needed) I took the liner back to my ski shop. Since my footbeds were around 9 years old and were slightly soft around the arch I decided to have my shop mold me some new DFP podium plus insoles and then molded them into my new Pro Wrap.

    Took them out today for the first day. Parking lot and lift felt great. Traversed high T to Christmas tree. By the Time I dropped in, my ankle was already starting to hurt. By middle way down I had to stop and rest my foot. By the time I got to the bottom of Collins I was limping back to my car, after only one run. Ankle felt 3x worse than ever.


    What are my next steps?


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  6. #1481
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJ62 View Post
    . . . whoever the guy is at Sturtevants. Am I missing anyone?
    Brant Howell is the man at Sturts. Steve Forsythe is also in the group of old school bootfitters who are still at it. Martin Rand is apparently taking his retirement seriously.

  7. #1482
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    Sep 2006
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    Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123ski View Post
    Here is a weird one. Hoping someone can help me think through it.

    I have a pair of 2014 Dalbello Krypton Pros with about 150 days on them.

    In April of last year I started to have an issue on my medial malleolus in my left boot. Was worst pain when hiking, long traversing with right leg uphill, or walking in boot. So bad that Iíd limp while walking in boot until i tightened buckled. Slightly tightening the middle buckle would help, no real issues skiing in the boot outside of hiking and traversing.

    Stopped skiing at the end of April and had no issues with my ankle through the whole summer.

    First day skiing this season back in November the pain was back, but not as bad. Then on 5th day skiing this year (Dec 26) things got really bad. Even with boot buckled perfectly, after a few hours of traversing and skiing powder my medial malleolus started to hurt so bad I had to stop skiing after a few hours. The pain feels like my ankle bone is literally on fire.

    I went to my ski shop and they told me my intuition liner was shot and that I basically had bone on plastic contact. Decided to punch out the shell and add c pads around my ankle. Skied 2 days later and the pain only improved by about 10-15%. When I got home I proformed an intuition pro wrap liner.

    Skied a few more times with little to no improvement while I waited for the liner to come. Then last Saturday i skied with a slightly thicker sock (well, one with slightly more padding around the ankle. Things improved 50% and I was able to ski most of the day.

    The next day the new liner arrived, and now (thinking that it was just extra padding that I needed) I took the liner back to my ski shop. Since my footbeds were around 9 years old and were slightly soft around the arch I decided to have my shop mold me some new DFP podium plus insoles and then molded them into my new Pro Wrap.

    Took them out today for the first day. Parking lot and lift felt great. Traversed high T to Christmas tree. By the Time I dropped in, my ankle was already starting to hurt. By middle way down I had to stop and rest my foot. By the time I got to the bottom of Collins I was limping back to my car, after only one run. Ankle felt 3x worse than ever.


    What are my next steps?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Well, just made it back up today and tried a thicker sock, couldnít even stand in boot in parking lot without a 9/10 pain.

    Tried my old liner and it was an 8/10 pain.

    Never injure my foot but now Iím wondering if itís something physiological rather than my boot



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  8. #1483
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    BC
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    575
    Are you sure the punch is big enough and in the right spot? Take the liner out and put your foot in the boot with your footbed and try to line it up 50/50 front to back. Is the ankle touching the shell?

    Since the old liners are better it sounds like you dont have enough room.
    You should also try on some traditional overlap boots and see if it feels better. Dalbellos kill my ankle too

  9. #1484
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    Sep 2006
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    Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_pretzel View Post
    Are you sure the punch is big enough and in the right spot? Take the liner out and put your foot in the boot with your footbed and try to line it up 50/50 front to back. Is the ankle touching the shell?

    Since the old liners are better it sounds like you dont have enough room.
    You should also try on some traditional overlap boots and see if it feels better. Dalbellos kill my ankle too
    Took the boot back in to the boot fitter today. Determined that I actually have two sore sports on my medial malleolus, and that my ankle bone is quite broad.

    The boot fitter also did a 3D scan of my foot to determine the following:

    Left foot is 106mm wide
    Right foot is 108mm wide
    Narrow Heels on both,
    Both feet are exactly 275mm long
    Both feet have identical height insteps of medium volume
    Both medial malleolus are about 0.5 inches further forward than is normal.
    My left foot pronates about 20 degrees while my right foot doesnít pronate at all. Likely due to an 8 year old ankle injury.

    Doing a shell fit we lined up the medial malleolus with where he punched it out last time and found that Iím actually pressing right on the ridge between the natural (and subsequently punched) ankle pocket and the natural pocket for the navicular. He is punching out the ridge between the two today.

    We also put brand new foot beds in this week and he slightly canted the left one for me to help with the pronation.

    He doesnít recommend canting the boot since it already has significant wear on the sole.

    His advice was that we fix this boot issue with punching and this new intuition liner and get 50-100 more days out of it.

    He then said for the next boot, knowing everything we do about my foot from the 3D scan, that we should look at a medium volume 130 flex boot with a narrow ankle and a zip fit liner and Iíll be much happier. I havenít been in a 4 buckle boot or a non-intuition liner for 10+ years so that might be interesting


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  10. #1485
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    BC
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    Glad it looks like you’re getting it sorted out.

    I also went from 3/piece intuition to race plus with a zipfit and it is amazing. So much power and control.

  11. #1486
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    truckee
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    307
    123ski-
    That's some really good information- could I ask where you had the 3D done and what were the costs involved? PM if you don't want to post here. Thanks and good luck with them.
    "if you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind..."

  12. #1487
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    Mar 2008
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    Boulder
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    What are the pros using to glue foam to liners? Epoxy? Super glue? I need to add some padding in the ankle area of my liners, but past experience suggests that I'll need something better than the peel/stick adhesive that's already on the foam.

  13. #1488
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by North View Post
    What are the pros using to glue foam to liners? Epoxy? Super glue?
    Neither. Epoxy doesn't flex enough, super glue is best for hard materials with perfect surface contact (i.e. broken ceramics).

    We generally use Weldwood contact cement in the shop, apply to both surfaces and make sure it's dry to the touch before applying.

  14. #1489
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    Sep 2006
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    Utah
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    123ski-
    That's some really good information- could I ask where you had the 3D done and what were the costs involved? PM if you don't want to post here. Thanks and good luck with them.
    Sports Den in Salt Lake. Cost seems to be built into boot fitting process. Ask for Curtis or mike


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  15. #1490
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Boulder
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Neither. Epoxy doesn't flex enough, super glue is best for hard materials with perfect surface contact (i.e. broken ceramics).

    We generally use Weldwood contact cement in the shop, apply to both surfaces and make sure it's dry to the touch before applying.
    Perfect, thanks.

  16. #1491
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    Sep 2014
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    1,742
    mntlion/gregL; what's a good quick fix and then what's the best long term fix of a cuff alignment problem? I have the non adjustable Vulcans and i've concluded that an inside ski/inside edge engagement/weighting challenge is caused by boots that are just a bit too set to fit more bowlegged skiers than myself. Did some a/b comparos with adjustable cuff scarpa maestrales and garmont deliriums and the issue went away with a more neutral/upright setting. With those boots, could more effectively engage the inside ski/inside edge, feather the edge and didn't feel as 'locked' on the downhill ski inside edge in a wide spectrum of test conditions.

    things i'm thinking of trying:
    - stuffing socks between liner/shell to change the alignment of liner vs shell
    - heating liner and compressing foam on inboard side of shaft
    - heating scaffo, clamping it down and trying to lean the carbon cuff over and trying to bend/shape things more neutral

    ....no clue what might work, what might wreck the boots; don't wanna risk damage to boots and/or waste time guessing at it. Thanks for any tips!
    Last edited by swissiphic; 01-17-2020 at 09:54 AM.
    Master of mediocrity.

  17. #1492
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    Oct 2003
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    Banff
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    can you drill out the non-adjustable side cuffs and replace with an adjustable one?

    this is assuming you have a good, custom, supportive footbed? have you tired shimming that a bit more?

    I think the heating the cuff would be a doable option.


  18. #1493
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    1,742
    can you drill out the non-adjustable side cuffs and replace with an adjustable one?

    - sure, any hints on what might fit/where I can obtain those parts?

    this is assuming you have a good, custom, supportive footbed? have you tired shimming that a bit more?

    - yes, foot bed is good, always tweaking it in response to changes in liner packing out differently with different pack loads, temp ranges or dh/vs/ski touring variances in pressure locations. high volume intuition luxury liners...the squish underfoot insulates well but does weird things with packing out while skiing/rebounding when drying in warmer environments.

    I think the heating the cuff would be a doable option.

    - okay, cool. Where would you target the heat and in what sequence of steps?
    Master of mediocrity.

  19. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    can you drill out the non-adjustable side cuffs and replace with an adjustable one?

    - sure, any hints on what might fit/where I can obtain those parts?
    I strip parts from dead/warranty boots? Do you have a shop near you? I might be able to find/ship parts?

    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    I think the heating the cuff would be a doable option.

    - okay, cool. Where would you target the heat and in what sequence of steps?
    So this is permanent, so go slow.

    look at the side of your calf, and bend the shell, based on the calf shape you are trying to match. I would use a pant stripping gun, or dunk in very hot water, click into a ski that is held flat, and bend my leg over (boot on edge) Get someone to pack with snow to cool it and see what that does.


  20. #1495
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    I strip parts from dead/warranty boots? Do you have a shop near you? I might be able to find/ship parts?



    So this is permanent, so go slow.

    look at the side of your calf, and bend the shell, based on the calf shape you are trying to match. I would use a pant stripping gun, or dunk in very hot water, click into a ski that is held flat, and bend my leg over (boot on edge) Get someone to pack with snow to cool it and see what that does.
    Sounds good. Will look into option 1 first, if no beuno, try the shell/cuff reforming. I have a heat gun and laser thermometer on hand. Thanks again for the advise.
    Master of mediocrity.

  21. #1496
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    297
    Search Wildsnow cuff rivet for how to-
    https://www.wildsnow.com/?s=cuff+rivet
    Most touring boots don't offer cuff alignment because it affects the lock mechanism. You may have to file out the slot where the lock stud goes into the hole to allow locking.

  22. #1497
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    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnfarmer View Post
    Search Wildsnow cuff rivet for how to-
    https://www.wildsnow.com/?s=cuff+rivet
    Most touring boots don't offer cuff alignment because it affects the lock mechanism. You may have to file out the slot where the lock stud goes into the hole to allow locking.
    Good point. Will have to carefully consider any changes in shell/cuff and how that would affect said male/female part mating....especially important considering the whole area has been modified for a custom adjustable stiffness/forward flex mod that has changed the boots' flex feel completely...don't wanna compromise that in any fashion.
    Master of mediocrity.

  23. #1498
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    297
    Male female part mating
    Phrase is woody inducing

  24. #1499
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    mntlion/gregL; what's a good quick fix and then what's the best long term fix of a cuff alignment problem?
    I would say shim under the binding, it's fairly quick and permanent until you switch skis.

    I doubt heating the cuff will do much on a Vulcan, as the carbon/acrylic resin doesn't really get softer when hot. As turnfarmer notes, altering the cuff rivets may change the alignment of the top buckle peg so your lean lock no longer works . . .

  25. #1500
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    Sep 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I would say shim under the binding, it's fairly quick and permanent until you switch skis.

    I doubt heating the cuff will do much on a Vulcan, as the carbon/acrylic resin doesn't really get softer when hot. As turnfarmer notes, altering the cuff rivets may change the alignment of the top buckle peg so your lean lock no longer works . . .
    Okay, noted about potential/probable futility of reshaping rear cuff and/or changing cuff rivets...other issue i hadn't considered is the internal rear internal spoiler alignment would probably get skewed if only the cuff was re aligned.

    As for canting bindings, also a possibility, though was hoping to focus on the boots not skis...rolling a quiver of about 5 pairs, all with tech binders. Have a few others with regular dh clamps, might be a good first step in temporary testing to see if canting binding would give the results i'm lookin' for.

    Did a hasty test yesterday inserting a wedge shaped rear cuff spoiler between shell and liner at the 3 oclock position, laterally. Definite improvement but hard to really tell, due to mostly weird skiing facets, windslab/windcrust and i was testing out some new non field removable tail extenders on skis that likely affected how turn engagement and finish felt. Not optimal test conditions.

    I think considering the time investment, risk/reward ratio for any more extensive mods to the Vulcans...prolly best just to call it and buy new boots. Anyone selling Tecnica Zero G Tour Pros in a size 25.5 for cheap in canadian pesos? Donations also accepted, lol; boots will be test subjects for extensive mods including the next refined version of the adjustable forward flex stiffness mechansim.
    Master of mediocrity.

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