the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[dub2]

I have experience with the mach1 130lv, Cochise 130, and the Lange XT3 140. Volume is by far what I notice most, but I also have pretty low volume ankles. Otherwise there's a pretty noticable difference for me with the rivoted cuff on the mach1; on an intuitive level, I initiate turns just thinking about it. Practically, it's likely due to small movements translating directly into the ski.

Between the lock on the XT3 and the Cochise I would say they're fairly similar in terms of forward flex. Maybe a slight difference in favor of the Cochise in lateral translation. Forward lean is more aggressive on the XT3.

Keep in mind that I haven't been using current generation cochises, I have the ones from 2016 I think. Have a 21/22 model in the box... Waiting till I get a few miles on my zero Gs before I decide if I wanna keep em.

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Thanks. Lower volume ankle is a positive for sure, I feel like I have a bit too much room there in the cochise. A few more questions.

The cochise generally fits my foot decently, except for pressure on my pinky toe and sixth toe area. This can cause my pinky toe to go numb on longer days out or when it is cold.

Should I just go with a mach1 and get the sixth toe and pinky toe punched? Or is there another alpine boot I should be considering here?

[DarthMarkus]

Thanks. Lower volume ankle is a positive for sure, I feel like I have a bit too much room there in the cochise. A few more questions.

The cochise generally fits my foot decently, except for pressure on my pinky toe and sixth toe area. This can cause my pinky toe to go numb on longer days out or when it is cold.

Should I just go with a mach1 and get the sixth toe and pinky toe punched? Or is there another alpine boot I should be considering here?

I have the same issues with the Cochise, it's exaggerated in the mach 1. I just punched mine and did a light grind. I also needed some space on I'm not positive how the XT3 compares to the RX, but if the RX has a similar heel hold and ankle volume as the Mach1 I could see it as a viable option - I have my doubts that that's the case though; last time I tried the RX or RS on (somewhere around 2014-15) it was a no go for me.

You might look at Atomic or Fischer as well. The Hawx Ulta/XTD & I always liked the heel on, but its instep was too high for me. With the right boot fitter, the Vacuum boots from Fischer are actually a fairly good solution for low-volume feet if you're willing to put the work in. Take my opinion on those two options with a grain of salt though, it's been a while since I've had them on my feet.

Otherwise I think you're looking in a pretty good spot with the Mach1.

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[dub2]

I have the same issues with the Cochise, it's exaggerated in the mach 1. I just punched mine and did a light grind. I also needed some space on I'm not positive how the XT3 compares to the RX, but if the RX has a similar heel hold and ankle volume as the Mach1 I could see it as a viable option - I have my doubts that that's the case though; last time I tried the RX or RS on (somewhere around 2014-15) it was a no go for me.

You might look at Atomic or Fischer as well. The Hawx Ulta/XTD & I always liked the heel on, but its instep was too high for me. With the right boot fitter, the Vacuum boots from Fischer are actually a fairly good solution for low-volume feet if you're willing to put the work in. Take my opinion on those two options with a grain of salt though, it's been a while since I've had them on my feet.

Otherwise I think you're looking in a pretty good spot with the Mach1.

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Is there more room in the 6th toe in your Lange? Last time I tried on a Lange it felt pretty good, but it's been a while and I've never skied in them.

[DarthMarkus]

Is there more room in the 6th toe in your Lange? Last time I tried on a Lange it felt pretty good, but it's been a while and I've never skied in them.

Certainly not in the 97 lasted Langes. I would assume the 100mm lasted Langes should though.

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[Reformed]

I think the Hawx Ultra XTD is the right call. Really moldable boot if there are some small issues here and there. Plus, it skis really well.

great go wtih the atomic.

Maybe try the nordica strider too?

Thanks for the confirmation gents - it's good to know I'm not missing any obvious options. I was hoping for a better reaction to the Zero G from her, but there's no hiding how thin that liner is with ankles that are the diameter of my wrists... I'll get her to put her Intuitions in the Zero Gs next time just to be sure that the volume she is feeling around her ankle is the result of the boot shell and not just the thin liner. The weight, sole and tourability of that boot is hard to ignore.
Striders aren't available to try on locally and they're a little heavier/less touring-oriented than she is interested in. I am pretty confident that the Atomic would be a great boot for her. She just needs to wrap her head around GW soles, increased effort to put on/take off and the potential of wanting to swap the liners with Intuitions (for warmth and tourability - mimic liners ski great). Part of the reason that she is interested in boots is from listening to me heap praise on my Prime XTDs.

[gregL]

Thanks for the confirmation gents - it's good to know I'm not missing any obvious options. I was hoping for a better reaction to the Zero G from her, but there's no hiding how thin that liner is with ankles that are the diameter of my wrists... I'll get her to put her Intuitions in the Zero Gs next time just to be sure that the volume she is feeling around her ankle is the result of the boot shell and not just the thin liner. The weight, sole and tourability of that boot is hard to ignore.
Striders aren't available to try on locally and they're a little heavier/less touring-oriented than she is interested in. I am pretty confident that the Atomic would be a great boot for her. She just needs to wrap her head around GW soles, increased effort to put on/take off and the potential of wanting to swap the liners with Intuitions (for warmth and tourability - mimic liners ski great). Part of the reason that she is interested in boots is from listening to me heap praise on my Prime XTDs.

Nothing compares to the Hawx Ultra fit for skinny lower legs and ankles. It's a bit heavier than the Zero G and the usable range of motion is a bit less for most people, but the cuff diameter is much smaller. You only put them on and take them off once a day, right?

[Reformed]

Nothing compares to the Hawx Ultra fit for skinny lower legs and ankles.

This is what I wanted to hear. The local shop doesn't have any in stock, so I wasn't able to confirm for myself. Thanks!

[DigSki]

This is a big ask, but might as well throw it out there. Any chance we could put together a list of boots and the general volume fit for key areas that aren't readily available (instep / heel / ankle / calf).

That might be considered stepping on the toes of bootfitters, since that's part of their expertise, so understand if that's not something we'd want to do. If it is something we'd do then I can set up a google sheet and get things started.

[DarthMarkus]

This is a big ask, but might as well throw it out there. Any chance we could put together a list of boots and the general volume fit for key areas that aren't readily available (instep / heel / ankle / calf).

That might be considered stepping on the toes of bootfitters, since that's part of their expertise, so understand if that's not something we'd want to do. If it is something we'd do then I can set up a google sheet and get things started.

I think you'd need to follow it up with some less subjective data; most people with a low volume or high volume fit aren't actually measuring things like circumference around the ankle. Also need to take into account the preferences of the skier.

Ideally, I think having metrics for measurements, any weird things with the foot (pronation, bunions, etc.), skier ability, and weight/height included as a whole you could come away with some good data.

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[gregL]

This is a big ask, but might as well throw it out there. Any chance we could put together a list of boots and the general volume fit for key areas that aren't readily available (instep / heel / ankle / calf).

That might be considered stepping on the toes of bootfitters, since that's part of their expertise, so understand if that's not something we'd want to do. If it is something we'd do then I can set up a google sheet and get things started.

I certainly don't mind if you do it, but knowing the interior shapes of boot shells is only part of the solution to getting a good fit. The rest is knowing what you can do to modify a particular boot, and being able to call out a foot shape when you see it and isolate the problem areas (best done in person, none of the digital apps is nearly as good as 10 seconds in the shop). I do it visually and by feeling the customer's foot, but it's common that customers don't really know what the problems are. Plenty of people come in and say "I've been told I have a wide foot" or "I have a narrow heel and get a lot of heel lift" when they don't.

The most common undiagnosed problem is "general numbness" (my whole foot goes to sleep) which is almost always instep pressure.

If by "we" you mean I should do it, I've got plenty of more pressing projects going . . .

[DigSki]

I certainly don't mind if you do it, but knowing the interior shapes of boot shells is only part of the solution to getting a good fit. The rest is knowing what you can do to modify a particular boot, and being able to call out a foot shape when you see it and isolate the problem areas (best done in person, none of the digital apps is nearly as good as 10 seconds in the shop). I do it visually and by feeling the customer's foot, but it's common that customers don't really know what the problems are. Plenty of people come in and say "I've been told I have a wide foot" or "I have a narrow heel and get a lot of heel lift" when they don't.

The most common undiagnosed problem is "general numbness" (my whole foot goes to sleep) which is almost always instep pressure.

If by "we" you mean I should do it, I've got plenty of more pressing projects going . . .

Yeah I meant it as a collective thing, not just you. I thought it might be useful to get people started in the right boots, but you guys have made me realize it's not really very useful. Carry on with the useful stuff in this thread, it's full of great stuff

[johnnyg82]

This is a big ask, but might as well throw it out there. Any chance we could put together a list of boots and the general volume fit for key areas that aren't readily available (instep / heel / ankle / calf).

That might be considered stepping on the toes of bootfitters, since that's part of their expertise, so understand if that's not something we'd want to do. If it is something we'd do then I can set up a google sheet and get things started.

Any dentists try scanning the inside of a boot with an itero or other digital scanner? Lol, but curious.

[gregL]

Any dentists try scanning the inside of a boot with an itero or other digital scanner? Lol, but curious.

Sidas has done almost every current production boot - if you have their Corpus-e scanner and pay them for the service, you can visually compare a customer's foot with the interior shell shapes of most boot models on the market. It's pretty amazing, but from a bootfitter's perspective it skirts the question of how much the boot can be modified and assumes you intend to ski the boot as it comes out of the box. Unfortunately lots of shops probably use it this way - keep virtually trying on boots until you find one with no "hot" areas and sell it to them. Fit issues are identified by color - no conflict areas show as blue or grey and pressure areas show up as red or orange; you can load a bunch of boot options for a customer and compare them.

The downside is that the machine is bulky and lives at the shop, not in the customer's home. Once they get to the shop and a good bootfitter who knows their boots sees their foot, he or she can accomplish the same thing in a few minutes by looking at and palpating the customer's foot, plus assure them that the problem areas are fixable. It also requires a solid Ethernet connection AND good WiFi - we've had data transfer issues with it.

Here's a picture of my foot in a Hawx Ultra shell:

[johnnyg82]

Sidas has done almost every current production boot - if you have their Corpus-e scanner and pay them for the service, you can visually compare a customer's foot with the interior shell shapes of most boot models on the market. It's pretty amazing, but from a bootfitter's perspective it skirts the question of how much the boot can be modified and assumes you intend to ski the boot as it comes out of the box. Unfortunately lots of shops probably use it this way - keep virtually trying on boots until you find one with no "hot" areas and sell it to them. Fit issues are identified by color - no conflict areas show as blue or grey and pressure areas show up as red or orange; you can load a bunch of boot options for a customer and compare them.

The downside is that the machine is bulky and lives at the shop, not in the customer's home. Once they get to the shop and a good bootfitter who knows their boots sees their foot, he or she can accomplish the same thing in a few minutes by looking at and palpating the customer's foot, plus assure them that the problem areas are fixable. It also requires a solid Ethernet connection AND good WiFi - we've had data transfer issues with it.

Here's a picture of my foot in a Hawx Ultra shell:

That’s cool, wasn’t sure it existed, but the wife just got an itero, so it’s interesting.

[Falcon3]

I’m in the market for a new touring boot and I don’t trust any of the shops around here to know how to properly fit me. (I’ve gotten quite a lot of bull from them before just asking for a single punch, one shop tried to put me in a 1800g hybrid touring boot when I just wanted to pay them to use their oven for my Intuitions).

My problem is I have big calves. Diameter at the top of most boots is 17”. For most boots, even upright ones, this pushes my leg super far in front of the boot spine, increasing effective forward lean, making it hard to not be in the backseat to compensate and killing my quads.

My alpine setup is Lange RX130 (12 degrees and a relatively low cuff) with pre-GW pivots (0 degree stack delta) and this feels great.

I’m in Hawk XTD for my touring boot now, and I’ve never gotten them to feel right (3 years and dozens of tours) my calves still push me too far forward even with the 13 degree chip and a toe shim on my bindings making it a 6mm delta.

What touring boots in this class (high flex, 1300-1500g) would be better for this issue, and/or what can I do about it in my current XTD with Pro Tours?

[DarthMarkus]

I’m in the market for a new touring boot and I don’t trust any of the shops around here to know how to properly fit me. (I’ve gotten quite a lot of bull from them before just asking for a single punch, one shop tried to put me in a 1800g hybrid touring boot when I just wanted to pay them to use their oven for my Intuitions).

My problem is I have big calves. Diameter at the top of most boots is 17”. For most boots, even upright ones, this pushes my leg super far in front of the boot spine, increasing effective forward lean, making it hard to not be in the backseat to compensate and killing my quads.

My alpine setup is Lange RX130 (12 degrees and a relatively low cuff) with pre-GW pivots (0 degree stack delta) and this feels great.

I’m in Hawk XTD for my touring boot now, and I’ve never gotten them to feel right (3 years and dozens of tours) my calves still push me too far forward even with the 13 degree chip and a toe shim on my bindings making it a 6mm delta.

What touring boots in this class (high flex, 1300-1500g) would be better for this issue, and/or what can I do about it in my current XTD with Pro Tours?

I mean, kinda sounds like you should look at XT3 tour pro. Stick with what works: Lange.

The hoji may also be up your alley with its flex, forward lean, and weight, i dunno about the cuff diameter though.

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[Falcon3]

I mean, kinda sounds like you should look at XT3 tour pro. Stick with what works: Lange.

The hoji may also be up your alley with its flex, forward lean, and weight, i dunno about the cuff diameter

Unfortunately my heel slides around in the Hoji like Elvis dancing and I won’t wear boat anchors.

My Hawx are getting tired maybe I’ll take the heat gun to them and aggressively flare out the cuff

[mntlion]

fid a boot that fits the rest of the foot, and either flair or lower the cuff as needed?

[Shorty_J]

I love almost everything about my new boots... barely even tighten them and and they ski great and no foot pain. I even did a lap or two where I didn't undo the buckles to ride the lift... I haven't done that in more than a decade.

But there's one thing that's perplexing which is that the tongue on the right boot isn't staying in the middle of the boot... it's migrating to the outside and my shin is getting a sore spot from not being cushioned enough on that leg.

Any ideas what might be causing this or how to fix it?

[noslow]

I love almost everything about my new boots... barely even tighten them and and they ski great and no foot pain. I even did a lap or two where I didn't undo the buckles to ride the lift... I haven't done that in more than a decade.

But there's one thing that's perplexing which is that the tongue on the right boot isn't staying in the middle of the boot... it's migrating to the outside and my shin is getting a sore spot from not being cushioned enough on that leg.

Any ideas what might be causing this or how to fix it?

Sounds like a cuff adjustment is needed to Center your leg within the right and left side of the upper boot cuff. Had my latest boots heat molded but never had the cuff’s aligned and saw someone online having the same “tongue not perfectly lining up” issue that I had. My local shop had a large board with demo bindings mounted on them in an open stance. I stood in my shells on just the footbed with no liner and they looked at the gaps between my leg and the shell on both sides. Also looked at what it did as I flexed forward and my knees went inside. They loosen the side cuff and rear flex/forward lean bolts(usually an Allen bolt) so the cuff could be adjusted and then tilt the cuff to either side so there is now equal gaps on both sides of your shell and that you are hitting the Center of the shell when leaning forward.

Took all of 5 mins to do and haven’t tried them on the hill but put them on at home and can’t believe the difference in comfort on the tongue as I’m in the Center now and how straight my knees are when I lean forward in the boot.

Here’s a video showing cuff adjustment.

https://youtu.be/4bCR0AlqRZg

[RollGybe]

Here's my "WTF is Wrong with my Boots"

Searing/burning pain below my arches when I'm not all the way forward, such as a runout or in flattish moguls.
It's a very bad feeling pain. I'd give up all my secrets if it were an interrogation.

Lange RX130s, 97 last with Sidas footbeds, and a cork heel lift. Shell size 27.5, bare foot measures 26.5cm. Pronator.

Some history:
-I have generally felt like the cuff is slightly too upright. I have to push on my met pad or flex my glutes a little to stand neutral.
-The heel lift made a big improvement.
-I have skinny chicken legs, and with the heel lift, I have some space behind my leg now.
-Well-known bootfitter said "buckle them tighter." When I got them tight enough, it took a lot of front pressure to get the space out. At the end of the day, I had a mass of fluid at the top of my shin. Didn't do that again.

When the pain starts, if I am actively skiing, I can get forward, shift a my heel back a little, and take pressure off my met pads. I
can't really do much about it on flats or if I'm not locked in forward, or I just want to relax my stance.

My foot intrinsics are my weakest link, but I am in pretty decent shape, and I exercise for stronger feet.

-I am pushing 100 days in these boots, and I'm concerned about my next steps. I wouldn't want to have to start the tweaking from scratch - seems like a risk.

Thoughts are tremendously appreciated.

[Bamski]

@RollGybe

Footbed situation? Did a fitter put you in this boot to begin with?

If you’re in a boot that’s a size up from your mondo measurements, I’m immediately suspicious it could be a problem. Fore/Aft movement can lead to cramping if your foot is working to stabilize itself in a shell that’s too big.

[himavan]

Planning on visiting my local boot fitter, but looking for some advice:

I have a pair of old dalbello krypton pros with intuition wrap liners. They felt perfect before; but I broke my right tibia last spring, and surgeon had to fix it internally with a plate (mid shin down to ankle).
Now when I buckle up my right boot, I don’t have even pressure across my shin. When I flex, the pressure hits too much mid shin (in the fracture area which doesnt feel good), and I can’t really press my shin. This is quite noticeable where shin meets the top of the liner/shell. If I fold a sock or something, I can stick it in at the top, front of shin, and flexing my boot feels more even (and can put more forward pressure with less pain).

While my bone is healed, the soft tissue is still changing, so the shape of my leg may change a bit too (especially decrease in swelling), so I’m hesitant to make permanent changes – but what would those possibly be? Should I just ski with some extra padding in there in the short term?

[mntlion]

Here's my "WTF is Wrong with my Boots"

Lange RX130s, 97 last with Sidas footbeds, and a cork heel lift. Shell size 27.5, bare foot measures 26.5cm. Pronator.
.

my though is that you are moving around in the shell (26 foot vs 27 boot) , and the toes are clawing to stay put. Combinded with skinny leg you are only really getting contact at boot top.

the 1/2 ass solution is a thicker footbed, and a F lean shim (filling up volume) but the real/correct is a smaller boot, that is still narrow?

or maybe just buy the red boots

[mntlion]

Planning on visiting my local boot fitter, but looking for some advice:

I have a pair of old dalbello krypton pros with intuition wrap liners. They felt perfect before; but I broke my right tibia last spring, and surgeon had to fix it internally with a plate (mid shin down to ankle).
Now when I buckle up my right boot, I don’t have even pressure across my shin. When I flex, the pressure hits too much mid shin (in the fracture area which doesnt feel good), and I can’t really press my shin. This is quite noticeable where shin meets the top of the liner/shell. If I fold a sock or something, I can stick it in at the top, front of shin, and flexing my boot feels more even (and can put more forward pressure with less pain).

While my bone is healed, the soft tissue is still changing, so the shape of my leg may change a bit too (especially decrease in swelling), so I’m hesitant to make permanent changes – but what would those possibly be? Should I just ski with some extra padding in there in the short term?

how old are the liners? Might be backed out/flat/no padding so a new liner might also re-old better?

also add foam padding to the toungue to balance the pressure better