the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[mntlion]

bump: cuz its that season again

[Ac00597100]

This was posted in "race boots - why so narrow ?" :

"The problem with intuitions is the foam in the lower isn't particularly stiff, which equates to poor power transmission. And they're just not very low volume where you need it (e.g., toe box)."
Is that true ? Do you think that's where we need low volume ? I would have thought the heel and maybe at the joint of the 2 big phalanges of the big toe but not the toe box in general !

[mntlion]

This was posted in "race boots - why so narrow ?" :

"The problem with intuitions is the foam in the lower isn't particularly stiff, which equates to poor power transmission. And they're just not very low volume where you need it (e.g., toe box)."
Is that true ? Do you think that's where we need low volume ? I would have thought the heel and maybe at the joint of the 2 big phalanges of the big toe but not the toe box in general !

intuition makes LOTS (maybe too many) kinds of liners, in MANY differnt thicknesses.
people have MANY different shapes of feet, so we have many shapes of boots
people want many different fits on the boots, so we have many options.

just about all combos are avail, but most people need some direction finding the right combo that they want, (for fit, for flex, for touring, for sking, etc) and usually this shape takes some adjusting (stretching, padding, etc)

some people just think that a boot should grip the heel like a vise, but have the toe box room of a sandal. (just like I want a redhead that looks like jessica rabbit) some dreams will not come true

[Ac00597100]

10 years for this thread ! Thanks to follow it !
I will try to continu it then :
I just bought the Atomic Redster Club Sport (red ! it seems important here )
My toes are a bit crushed not in length but in height. As it is almost a "race boot" and the liner being so thin, I guess it doesn't compress much after time
Can we cut some length of the footbed under the toes ? I guess we would have to put some double face carpenter tape for the footbed not to move while skiing.

[mntlion]

10 years for this thread ! Thanks to follow it !
I will try to continu it then :
I just bought the Atomic Redster Club Sport (red ! it seems important here )
My toes are a bit crushed not in length but in height. As it is almost a "race boot" and the liner being so thin, I guess it doesn't compress much after time
Can we cut some length of the footbed under the toes ? I guess we would have to put some double face carpenter tape for the footbed not to move while skiing.

to get more tor height room

1) keep the toe buckles looser (or 100% off)

2) cut the toe of the footbed off just in front of, or just behind the metatarsals (ball of the foot) and use the footbed as a 3/4 lenght only.

3) grind the toe of the boot board thinner.

[Ac00597100]

Thanks I will do just that (and get some double face tape to keep the footbed in place).
Also thank you for keeping this thread alive !

[Skeeze]

to get more tor height room

1) keep the toe buckles looser (or 100% off)

2) cut the toe of the footbed off just in front of, or just behind the metatarsals (ball of the foot) and use the footbed as a 3/4 lenght only.

3) grind the toe of the boot board thinner.

On the subject of 3/4 length footbeds, will this increase internal ramp angle/forward lean? I have a pair of Hawx XTDs that need a bit more height in the toes (I'll likely just mold them again to accomplish this), but that issue is also solved by using a 3/4 length footbed. The Hawx already have a 15 degree forward lean and I don't want to add more to that, hence my concern around the 3/4 length footbed.

[mntlion]

On the subject of 3/4 length footbeds, will this increase internal ramp angle/forward lean? I have a pair of Hawx XTDs that need a bit more height in the toes (I'll likely just mold them again to accomplish this), but that issue is also solved by using a 3/4 length footbed. The Hawx already have a 15 degree forward lean and I don't want to add more to that, hence my concern around the 3/4 length footbed.

the F lean of the boot is the angle that your shin is at (ankle to knee) the footbed will not effect this

the ramp angle of the boot is the angle of the foot. By removing the tip of the footbed the toes will get more up/down room, but the heel and the mid foot remain the same overall height. And if they did, the boot board is 300mm long (depending on size) and the footbed is 2mm thick so its a VERY small increase anyways.

[Rossymcg]

to get more tor height room

1) keep the toe buckles looser (or 100% off)

2) cut the toe of the footbed off just in front of, or just behind the metatarsals (ball of the foot) and use the footbed as a 3/4 lenght only.

3) grind the toe of the boot board thinner.

i tried option 3 with a sanding disk on my grinder, fuck all left of it now ive only been in my touring boots since so dont know if it has worked or not

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[mntlion]

I'm not at the same shop anymore, but still avail to answer questions.

[steved]

There's usually a block of plastic, fastening the ends of both sides of overlap, that can be ground down a bit...fwiw.

[pow_pow~]

Ive started to experience pain on the bottom middle third of my foot, towards the edges. almost like a cramping feeling. after about a couple of hours of skiing.

Ive taken the footbeds out and had no discomfort at all, so its definitely them that's causing it. however without the footbeds there's now too much room in the boot for my liking.

Ive got no boot fitters in my area so thought id ask here first. any tips?

[mntlion]

Ive started to experience pain on the bottom middle third of my foot, towards the edges. almost like a cramping feeling. after about a couple of hours of skiing.

Ive taken the footbeds out and had no discomfort at all, so its definitely them that's causing it. however without the footbeds there's now too much room in the boot for my liking.

Ive got no boot fitters in my area so thought id ask here first. any tips?

are the footbeds that you have flat (stock ones) or a off the rack/trim to fit kind, or a full custom?

The part of the foot that the cramp starts in, does the footbed in that place have any ridges/support? of so grind/heat it away and see how that is?

or just reaplce with a flat footbed (so you get the volume you want, but not the support that you dont want)

[swissiphic]

Ive started to experience pain on the bottom middle third of my foot, towards the edges. almost like a cramping feeling. after about a couple of hours of skiing.

Ive taken the footbeds out and had no discomfort at all, so its definitely them that's causing it. however without the footbeds there's now too much room in the boot for my liking.

Ive got no boot fitters in my area so thought id ask here first. any tips?

how about a pic with area of pain/cramping outlined?

[thefortrees]

Ive started to experience pain on the bottom middle third of my foot, towards the edges. almost like a cramping feeling. after about a couple of hours of skiing.

Ive taken the footbeds out and had no discomfort at all, so its definitely them that's causing it. however without the footbeds there's now too much room in the boot for my liking.

Ive got no boot fitters in my area so thought id ask here first. any tips?

I had the same problem and just took a Dremel to my footbeds - grind the hotspot down a bit. Ski. Repeat until it feels right.

[pow_pow~]

Thanks for your help. They are full custom footbeds so quite expensive, not too keen on cutting them up in case I fuck it. the next time ill be skiing is in Japan where I got them originally, so probably best just to wait and get them to sort them out for me.

I would say that the high arch part of my foot has changed in the last couple of years, ive never really looked at them before but its quite pronounced

[mntlion]

they are heat molded, so a hair dryer can be enough to do a spot re-heat.

Go slow, but heat up that lateral arch (outside of foot) a bit, top and bottom, and press down with your thumbs to make it flatter. I think that will help.

Worst case, you heat it up again and press the other way, so its 100% reversible. you are NOT removing any material, or anything critical. Sure is worth trying?

or go remove a flat insole, from a shoe, and ski with that. (also has no arch, for better and worse)

[BansheeBeat]

I am getting a lot of pain on the proximal phalanx of my pinky toe and a hot spot on the ball of my foot. Not sure whats going on here or if there is a solution someone could send me way that would be greatly appreciated. I was thinking maybe custom foot beds? Anyway I'm 6'4 and weigh 250

[mntlion]

I am getting a lot of pain on the proximal phalanx of my pinky toe and a hot spot on the ball of my foot. Not sure whats going on here or if there is a solution someone could send me way that would be greatly appreciated. I was thinking maybe custom foot beds? Anyway I'm 6'4 and weigh 250

no idea, can you start with answering the questions posted on page 1?

[BansheeBeat]

no idea, can you start with answering the questions posted on page 1?

1. Shell fit- Based on the pen measurement I have around 20-22mm of room behind my heel
2. Lightly brushing the sides of the boot
3. no custom/footbed or one that was purchased seperately just the normal flat insert that came with the liner
Next list
1/2. Using only one thin clean ski sock
3. toenails are trimmed and short
4. they are my boots
5. only skiing in boot aside from some walking on lunch breaks
6. I do not dry my liners out at night
7. Liner and footbed that came with boots are in the correct boot
8. I am not loosening the buckles when in lift lines or standing
9. I have had to boots for almost a year
10. buckles are pointing to the outside
Next set of questions
1. At the start of the day there are usually no problems and I end up tightening the buckles later in the day
2. Better with thin socks
3. Don't have a custom footbed just what came with the boots
4. Better skiing, on chair lift and worse when standing especially at the end of the day
5. pain usually starts about halfway through the day
6. Consistent results over multiple days
7. Worse if I ski all hard terrain that particular day
8. Better with power straps looser
9. Just standing I usually notice the pain in the ball of the foot a lot more
10. None

[Tobsen]

School me on ramp angle and forward lean, please.
In my new boots I have the feeling that Im not really balanced on top of my skis. Most noticeably on jumps and while skiing switch, just carving the groomers is fine if not a little off.
Im pretty tall (6‘4) and am really flexible in my ankle joint. Skiing a Fischer Rc4 130.

I read that people with flexible ankle joints should, generally speaking, be more forward. On my old boots I had an adjustable boot board to raise ramp angle, which i believe lowers forward lean(?) though that made it feel better.
Skiing withouth the spoiler didnt help the problem.
Might a heel lift help to mitigate my problem? Although that doesnt correspond with my understanding of internal ramp angle.
Anything else I could try?
Thanks a lot!

[mntlion]

1. Shell fit- Based on the pen measurement I have around 20-22mm of room behind my heel
2. Lightly brushing the sides of the boot
3. no custom/footbed or one that was purchased seperately just the normal flat insert that came with the liner
Next list
1/2. Using only one thin clean ski sock
3. toenails are trimmed and short
4. they are my boots
5. only skiing in boot aside from some walking on lunch breaks
6. I do not dry my liners out at night
7. Liner and footbed that came with boots are in the correct boot
8. I am not loosening the buckles when in lift lines or standing
9. I have had to boots for almost a year
10. buckles are pointing to the outside
Next set of questions
1. At the start of the day there are usually no problems and I end up tightening the buckles later in the day
2. Better with thin socks
3. Don't have a custom footbed just what came with the boots
4. Better skiing, on chair lift and worse when standing especially at the end of the day
5. pain usually starts about halfway through the day
6. Consistent results over multiple days
7. Worse if I ski all hard terrain that particular day
8. Better with power straps looser
9. Just standing I usually notice the pain in the ball of the foot a lot more
10. None

thanks for all the info:

I would start trying other footbeds (superfoot, SOLE, something cheap, trim to fit) try that instead of the stock/flat one, If that is better, then try with the flat one under the one you bought (as a shim to fill up volume)


also try stretching your calfs a bit in the morning just before skiing, and for a few days before a trip.

[mntlion]

School me on ramp angle and forward lean, please.
In my new boots I have the feeling that Im not really balanced on top of my skis. Most noticeably on jumps and while skiing switch, just carving the groomers is fine if not a little off.
Im pretty tall (6‘4) and am really flexible in my ankle joint. Skiing a Fischer Rc4 130.

I read that people with flexible ankle joints should, generally speaking, be more forward. On my old boots I had an adjustable boot board to raise ramp angle, which i believe lowers forward lean(?) though that made it feel better.
Skiing withouth the spoiler didnt help the problem.
Might a heel lift help to mitigate my problem? Although that doesnt correspond with my understanding of internal ramp angle.
Anything else I could try?
Thanks a lot!

total ramp angle = the angle that your foot sits in the boot (including binding ramp angle and boot ramp angle) in relasionship to the flat ground. (toes are higher then heel)


boot forward lean is the angle is the differance in angle between the foot and the lower leg. This can be changed by 5-15mm shims in the top/back/upper part of the boot, or with a thinner shim in the junction between upper and lower shell. They both do similar things by pushing the lower leg forward or back, but NOT changing the angle of the foot to ground.

[sierra_cement]

Paging @mntlion... Do you know how many times you can (re-)heat mold salomon shells? I got a new pair of footbeds which are subtly different enough from my old ones that I'm noticing some hotspots along the outside edge of my foot. From the styloid up to the met-head. I've had good results head molding my salomon xmax shells. This particular pair have been cooked twice already, though, so contemplating doing it a 3rd time now.

Thought I've heard that the shells shouldn't be cooked more than 3 times, but don't know if that's just hearsay or actual explicit instructions from salomon. Thanks in advance for info and help!

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[mntlion]

its fine, heat up the shell as needed. Or spot heat that one small area.