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  1. #2026
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    4,558
    Here's a quick question:

    I've brought this up before, but I'm having continued issues. My feet are different sizes: left 10 3/4, right 9.5. I'm in s/max 130s 26.5. Which is obviously small on my left foot. I punched out the toes so the length of that boot is ok, but damn the thing hurts all the time, even with 100 days or so on in it. I didn't even put a real insole in it because it's so tight and I'm trying for all the space possible. I'm just using the factory one, and my arch is unhappy with that. I need to try some of the thinnest Sole inserts or something.

    I'm getting pressure on the top of my toes and the left side (small toe side) of my left foot right at the knuckle, and my foot is always asleep there when I take it out of the boot. Also, my large toe is slamming against my second toe and often digging the toenail into the toe, causing sharp, constant pain - and is also asleep on the outside of the large toe. Could it be that I need to widen the toe box a bit? That might keep the toes from smashing together, have more space for the outside of my foot, and maybe allow the toes to drop so there's less pressure on top (more room on top?)

    I'm always hesitant to widen a boot cause you can't go back and it impacts control differently than length. But I'm just talking at the toe box.

    GregL/MtnLion/any other gurus - will I regret getting that toe box punched? Would you start with both sides or just the outside of the foot?
    Last edited by EWG; 01-19-2022 at 08:57 PM.

  2. #2027
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    21,654
    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    GregL/MtnLion/any other gurus - will I regret getting that toe box punched? Would you start with both sides or just the outside of the foot?
    Try wider but go slow to make sure its working.

    Also make sure your heel is all the way down and back in the boot first.


  3. #2028
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    2
    Having some trouble with new hawx ultra 130 xtds that just have a quick heat mold (with toe cap) and an off the shelf footbed. They ski well both comfort and performance but touring im banging my big and 2nd toes off the front of the boot and having some cramping/burning through my foot in general. Have had similar problems with foot discomfort in the S/Max (just skiing, not walking) before a boot board grind and an aggressive mold with instep pads + removing the liner elastic - should I go a similar route? Maybe a length punch?

  4. #2029
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    473
    Does Lange have a replacement model for the old XC120? Itís basically a 102 last XT. It skis great. Iíve been replacing parts (such as liners) as necessary to keep them in service but will eventually need a replacement. An XT3 120 wide would be perfect but Iím not seeing it on their website.

  5. #2030
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    21,654
    Quote Originally Posted by breen View Post
    Having some trouble with new hawx ultra 130 xtds that just have a quick heat mold (with toe cap) and an off the shelf footbed. They ski well both comfort and performance but touring im banging my big and 2nd toes off the front of the boot and having some cramping/burning through my foot in general. Have had similar problems with foot discomfort in the S/Max (just skiing, not walking) before a boot board grind and an aggressive mold with instep pads + removing the liner elastic - should I go a similar route? Maybe a length punch?
    are the boots red? start with gettign red boots. (or answer the questions at the start of this thread, we need more info)


  6. #2031
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    4,618
    Quote Originally Posted by breen View Post
    Having some trouble with new hawx ultra 130 xtds that just have a quick heat mold (with toe cap) and an off the shelf footbed. They ski well both comfort and performance but touring im banging my big and 2nd toes off the front of the boot and having some cramping/burning through my foot in general. Have had similar problems with foot discomfort in the S/Max (just skiing, not walking) before a boot board grind and an aggressive mold with instep pads + removing the liner elastic - should I go a similar route? Maybe a length punch?
    Lack of interior length won't cause "cramping/burning" in your foot in general, it is almost always instep pressure and/or lack of appropriate footbed. The Hawx Ultra last is a bit taller than the S/Max, but start with a "hot" shell mold with foam over the instep (10 minutes with a cold oven), then look at the thickness of your footbeds and grind if possible, then try grinding the bootboard (not as thick as the S/Max, though). I save chopping vinyl and foam out of the liner for last as it's esthetically displeasing and means you have to be very careful of tongue placement when putting on the boot.

    The Hawx Ultra does run a bit shorter than other brands/models and doesn't punch all that well for length, but you can usually get an extra 5mm. Make sure you check toepiece clearance in your bindings after punching (i.e. Shift doesn't give you much room to play with before the boot hits the toepiece wing).

  7. #2032
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by breen View Post
    Having some trouble with new hawx ultra 130 xtds that just have a quick heat mold (with toe cap) and an off the shelf footbed. They ski well both comfort and performance but touring
    Seeking guidance from the braintrust on my next fit steps. I'm in a similar boat right now with Hawx Ultra XTD 120s (26.5), decently comfortable while skiing but begins to hurts like a mother when walking/touring at the 5th metatarsal/6th toe. I might be starting to develop a tailor's bunion due to this too.
    I did a shell/liner heat mold with a fitter in Mammoth without padding in those areas or toe cap and I'm thinking this was the problem and that I need to redo it. But, am I wrong and do I need a punch out in those areas? Or go for a wider boot? I like the heel grip/support in the Hawx and they're otherwise quite comfortable.

    OP's questions
    1) Shell fit for length - just about <1.5cm
    2) Shell fit for width - just a bit of brushing on lateral/outside of both feet
    3) Footbeds - Superfeet green trimmed for my Scarpa F1s (26.5) with some additional wedges for pronation (https://www.tognar.com/ski-boot-fitting-heel-wedges-pr/)

    1) You just have one, thin, clean ski sock in the boots - Yes, used ultrathin Wigwams and lightweight Smartwools

    2) You just have a sock in the boot? (no thermals, jewelry, etc) - Yes
    3) Your toe nails are trimmed short? - Yes
    4) They are YOUR boots and not borrowed? - Yes
    5) You are just skiing in your ski boots? (not walking, driving etc)? - Yes but the problem pertains to walk/touring
    6) You dry your liners out at night either with a dryer or remove liners? - Yes
    7) The left liner, the left footbed are in the left boot and this is on the left foot? - Yes
    8) You are loosening the buckles if you are not skiing (while standing, on lifts, etc) - Yes but
    9) You are not skiing all day in new boots? They need time to break in - I'm assuming they're broken in since I bought these boots used
    10) Buckles are pointing to the outside? - Yes

    1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser? - No difference but buckles are mostly fully/max latched
    2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks? - Somewhat better with thicker socks
    3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)? - I've only used Superfeet Greens with the boots
    4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)? - No difference, mostly fine
    5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?) - End of day walking worse than start of day walking
    6) BOW on the first vs the third day? - No difference
    7) BOW on harder or easier terrain? - No difference
    8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser? - Using Voiles, better tight
    9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions? - no
    10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last? - no

  8. #2033
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    159
    I'm having an issue where my ski boot flex feels very different between my left and right foot. My right boot flexes easily and feels very progressive. But my left boot feels like I'm hitting a wall immediately, even though I've already removed one bolt from the spine to soften the boot.

    Boot: 25.5 Hawx Ultra 130s, Zipfit Garas with added cork (a lot of cork added to the left tongue to take up instep space), a thick boot board shim, Sidas weighted footbeds. For a test, I found that I have the same flex issues with stock liners too. I feel pretty snug around the lower leg, ankle, and instep on both boots and buckle them each the same # of rungs.

    My bootfitter thinks that it might just be that one leg is stronger than the other, but I'm left-leg dominant so not sure. Flexibility doesn't seem like an issue. Could my very low volume and low instep foot somehow be affecting the flex on my left boot? Or maybe it's my lower leg shape?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by skier2265; 01-20-2022 at 07:58 PM.

  9. #2034
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,951
    The pro tour MV intuition I use in my mercurys are sloppy. I had a relaxed fit but they performed very well on the down with the original liner. I tried a butterfly pad around my heel, a 6mm shim between the boot board and and liner and a 3mm heel shim. Thith all of that in the boot they are only okish. I can still wiggle my heel and supinate. Overpronation is locked in. Even up front I feel I can move side to side. I thought dynafit liners were supposed to be fairly thin. Should I take the loss and just get the the HV?
    Is there an intuition outlet in Vancouver?
    Last edited by Cocximus; 01-21-2022 at 09:37 AM.

  10. #2035
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    179
    The Intuition headquarters is in Vancouver. Book an appointment with Tom (google "the boot mechanic"), he'll sort you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocximus View Post
    The pro tour MV intuition I use in my mercurys are sloppy. I had a relaxed fit but they performed very well on the down with the original liner. I tried a butterfly pad around my heel, a 6mm shim between the boot board and and liner and a 3mm heel shim. Thith all of that in the boot they are only okish. I can still wiggle my heel and supinate. Overpronation is locked in. Even up front I feel I can move side to side. I thought dynafit liners were supposed to be fairly thin. Should I take the loss and just get the the HV?
    Is there an intuition outlet in Vancouver?

  11. #2036
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    72
    any idea what is wrong with my boots?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #2037
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by deeds View Post
    any idea what is wrong with my boots?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Theyíre not red.

  13. #2038
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    4,618
    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    Here's a quick question:

    I've brought this up before, but I'm having continued issues. My feet are different sizes: left 10 3/4, right 9.5. I'm in s/max 130s 26.5. Which is obviously small on my left foot. I punched out the toes so the length of that boot is ok, but damn the thing hurts all the time, even with 100 days or so on in it. I didn't even put a real insole in it because it's so tight and I'm trying for all the space possible. I'm just using the factory one, and my arch is unhappy with that. I need to try some of the thinnest Sole inserts or something.

    I'm getting pressure on the top of my toes and the left side (small toe side) of my left foot right at the knuckle, and my foot is always asleep there when I take it out of the boot. Also, my large toe is slamming against my second toe and often digging the toenail into the toe, causing sharp, constant pain - and is also asleep on the outside of the large toe. Could it be that I need to widen the toe box a bit? That might keep the toes from smashing together, have more space for the outside of my foot, and maybe allow the toes to drop so there's less pressure on top (more room on top?)

    I'm always hesitant to widen a boot cause you can't go back and it impacts control differently than length. But I'm just talking at the toe box.

    GregL/MtnLion/any other gurus - will I regret getting that toe box punched? Would you start with both sides or just the outside of the foot?
    Sounds like a combination of lack of toebox width and instep pressure, but hard to tell without images/seeing you in person. Depending on the boot, try grinding the bootboard (all the way to the toes if possible). Depending on your arch try no footbed at all and/or just glueing and arch-shaped piece of foam inside the liner or over the bootboard (no extra height for the instep or toes). As Mtnlion suggests, go easy and punch for width just on the fifth distal phalanges (and maybe first as well).

  14. #2039
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    183
    Bit of a general question...

    Have a new set of Nordica Strider pro 130s from Surefoot. I have a set of zipfits which seem to work well but aren't so good for touring so for that I use the stock liner. On the stock liner I'm struggling with pressure

    Surefoot punched the toe box a bit as I have a very wide forefoot.

    So question is, how quick will the stock liner pack down? I don't want to punch again if not needed but my toes are getting very cold at the moment 🥶

  15. #2040
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    in the shadow of the white rocks
    Posts
    2,707
    SoÖ. Iím skiing more/longer now that my kids are in programs. Some days itís 7:45 to 4:15. My Intuition liners tend to get wet & I pull em each night. Just let em air dry.

    Current crop of liners seems to ďshrinkĒ overnight, especially in the toe box. WTH?

    Thoughts/solutions?

  16. #2041
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by ddraver View Post
    Bit of a general question...

    Have a new set of Nordica Strider pro 130s from Surefoot. I have a set of zipfits which seem to work well but aren't so good for touring so for that I use the stock liner. On the stock liner I'm struggling with pressure

    Surefoot punched the toe box a bit as I have a very wide forefoot.

    So question is, how quick will the stock liner pack down? I don't want to punch again if not needed but my toes are getting very cold at the moment 略
    That liner is plush, so, quickly. I want to say the fit changed in the first 10 days or so for me.

  17. #2042
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
    SoÖ. Iím skiing more/longer now that my kids are in programs. Some days itís 7:45 to 4:15. My Intuition liners tend to get wet & I pull em each night. Just let em air dry.

    Current crop of liners seems to ďshrinkĒ overnight, especially in the toe box. WTH?

    Thoughts/solutions?
    I never tried myself, but maybe cedar wood shoe trees. Works good for leather shoes.

  18. #2043
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    183
    Thanks DigSki

    Unfortunately I've not had many days in them given that the conditions here are so meh. Lots of time in the touring slippers instead ��

    They also cause me a lot of pain in the calves for the first hour or so if the day. It's released instantly by putting them on walk mode for the lift. Is this a boot thing or a me* thing?

    (*Unfit)

  19. #2044
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    473
    Quote Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post
    SoÖ. Iím skiing more/longer now that my kids are in programs. Some days itís 7:45 to 4:15. My Intuition liners tend to get wet & I pull em each night. Just let em air dry.

    Current crop of liners seems to ďshrinkĒ overnight, especially in the toe box. WTH?

    Thoughts/solutions?
    I use an air circulating (no heat) boot drier and leave my liners in my boots. Well worth buying or building. Dries my boots very well in a couple hours and no screwing with the liners. I used to pull my liners nightly and would occasionally have odd fits or damp feeling feet in the morning. Not sure if it would address your exact problem but itís one of those small changes I made that makes an outsized difference to my day.

  20. #2045
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Right Coast
    Posts
    997
    Random liner related question. For liners with adjustable tongue (Velcro pad), how does moving fore/aft impact fit?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  21. #2046
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    21,654
    Quote Originally Posted by bennettc14 View Post
    Random liner related question. For liners with adjustable tongue (Velcro pad), how does moving fore/aft impact fit?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    5mm is lots of change. but depends on the fit and what you are hoping to change?


  22. #2047
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Right Coast
    Posts
    997
    Snug up instep slightly


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  23. #2048
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    21,654
    Quote Originally Posted by bennettc14 View Post
    Snug up instep slightly


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    sure: go try it and let us know


  24. #2049
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The wrong side of the Atlantic, the wrong side of the Channel...
    Posts
    103
    Having some issues with the fit of a new pair of Lange XT3 130. I’m coming from a 2017 Cochise with powerwrap - never had any real issues. The new Cochise 130 weren’t available so went with the XT3 as they had the best out of the box fit and feel vs the Hawk Ultra 130 XTD, Hawk Prime 130 XTD and Shift Pro 130.

    After some work the right boot feels good as does the left, save for the fact that my outer left ankle seems to be sitting right on the edge of the ankle rivet. As soon as my foot’s in the boot it’s like there’s a nailhead pushing into that ankle. We’ve tried punching the shell, raising and lower the whole foot and just the heel, grinding the edges of the “clawed” rivet housing (not sure of the proper name for it) to smooth it out, changing the position of the edges of the “clawed” rivet housing and putting some foam over the area. So far no luck. I also tried on another left foot XT3 and had the same issue, so it doesn’t look like an issue specific to the particular left boot that we’re working on. Having never had this issue before, it’s weird that I have it in the XT3 and also had it (worse) in both the Atomics.

    Next step is to ditch the stock liner in favour of an intuition (likely a pro tour) and hope the added thickness of the liner does the trick. That said, if there’s anything short of taking a dremel to my ankle bone or starting over that might work, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts….

  25. #2050
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    21,654
    donut pad, on the liner, around the bit that hurts?

    Pull liner, press around to find the pain spot, make a small donut (hole size of dime) glue/tape to liner, re-install liner in shell


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