the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[gregL]

. . . can’t seem to quite get there even after spending some significant time with a bootfitter; these guys are so crazy low volume . . .

What did this bootfitter do so far?

[Mustonen]

What did this bootfitter do so far?

Punching and grinding over the course of a day. Christy sports at Snowbird; forget the guy’s name.

The fit isn’t “bad,” but it isn’t glovelike either. Honestly, I think the boot is doing what it’s supposed to be doing, but I’m too old and soft to appreciate it. Something that’s designed to be just a touch more comfortable is probably what I’m after. I don’t notice them while skiing.... but I do notice them when walking around and/or doing patrol BS.

[gregL]

Punching and grinding over the course of a day. Christy sports at Snowbird; forget the guy’s name.

The fit isn’t “bad,” but it isn’t glovelike either. Honestly, I think the boot is doing what it’s supposed to be doing, but I’m too old and soft to appreciate it. Something that’s designed to be just a touch more comfortable is probably what I’m after. I don’t notice them while skiing.... but I do notice them when walking around and/or doing patrol BS.

The volume in the S/Pro is huge by comparison, I would be inclined not to go there. The bootboard on the S/Max is quite thick, try grinding a millimeter off at a time to increase volume, and/or doing another heat mold at the high end of the time range (10 minutes with cold oven).

[Mustonen]

The volume in the S/Pro is huge by comparison, I would be inclined not to go there. The bootboard on the S/Max is quite thick, try grinding a millimeter off at a time to increase volume, and/or doing another heat mold at the high end of the time range (10 minutes with cold oven).

That won’t make them warmer, though.... I’d like to get a bit of wiggle room to accommodate hotronics or a warmer liner, and I’m skeptical that’s possible with these. Probably should have stated that as a goal above...

[gregL]

That won’t make them warmer, though.... I’d like to get a bit of wiggle room to accommodate hotronics or a warmer liner, and I’m skeptical that’s possible with these. Probably should have stated that as a goal above...

You might be surprised.

Reducing pressure over the cuneiforms (deep plantar artery is just underneath and carries all the blood to your toes) can seriously increase warmth. Also, a proper Hotronics install doesn't require more volume anywhere except in back of your boot cuff (I would suggest Therm-ic which seem to work just as well and have a much smaller battery pack).

[gregL]

Besides, don't you already own the S/Max?

[funkendrenchman]

Picked up some Salomon s/max 130 carbon last year. Was coming from Salomon Ghosts and before that X Waves.

The ghosts fit me better than any boot I’d ever had. I was hoping to be able to replicate that with the S/Max, and can’t seem to quite get there even after spending some significant time with a bootfitter; these guys are so crazy low volume.... They’re ok for a couple days/week and they ski great, but the thought of back to back days or a full week doesn’t sound appealing. I also need them to be warmer.

Currently considering going with s/pro and tackling volume issues with intuitions (I’ve had good luck with Salomons before and hesitate to try other brands) or going with Atomic Hawk ultra 130 s.

Thoughts, besides a collective facepalm over considering going with a high volume s/pro and/or “go to a boot fitter” (no real “bootfitters” around here)?

Whatever it is, goal would be to order and customize at home; something I’ve been successful with in the past.

I used to ski the Ghosts and loved them. I’ve tried the Smax, but like the Hawx Ultra better. If you want the ultimate fit, wait for the Hawx 130 Professional next year.

[riff]

Two questions for the resident experts-

My situation: I got some Scarpa Alien RS to work for me as my daily touring boot, and having got the major width and heel hold concerns worked through, I’m down to the fine details.

First, the easy question- I need more length, specifically on my big toe, left foot. It’s steadily cold, and has just enough pressure to get sore on long days and successive days. I’ve tried putting a 3mm layer of foam under the Intuition toe cap and spot molding the toe with a heat gun, and I’m not feeling much change. Is there an more effective way to get the spot mold to make length? Maybe just stack more material in there to really compress the liner? I could modify my homebrew width punch to work for length and try to push out the shell there, but I’d rather just compress the liner more. Ideas?

Second question- I get INTENSE plantar fasciitis (Only while skiing down, rarely while walking up) pain in my right foot, and its only recently a problem after switching to the Aliens, never did it with the same footbeds in my TLT6’s. I have Sidas custom insoles, and I’ve been pondering spot molding them with my heat gun for more arch support. I’ve noticed they flex rather easily- I’ve also noticed that I feel like I have to tip my knee way inward to get engagement on the inside edge of my ski, possibly because the footbed is flattening? So, is it possible that I should post under the arches to create better support for the foot, and better engagement for edging? If so, what material would the homebrew bootfitter use for this? Or better just going to a legit bootfitter?

Thanks for any ideas or encouragement.


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[mntlion]

1) sounds like you have worked on the liner already. no harm in doing it again.
a) can you wear a thinner sock on that side?
b) is the footbed offering enough support (more suport might give you a shorter foot)
c) is the heel both down, AND back all the way?
d) go at the shell

2) is the foot bed stable and not rocking side to side at all?
maybe lowering the arch might help, I'm betting you need a bit more support, but try lowering / softening the arch and see. I've been wrong MANY times before

[riff]

1) I tried spot molding with a very thick toe cap again tonight, will see tomorrow

a) I’m on the thinnest darn tough synthetic
b) i might need more support

C) I smack the boots against the ground to set the footbed all the way back before donning

D) if this spot mold doesn’t work probably have to!

2) i think it’s planted.
Lowering/softening equals less support, correct? So try that first then add arch support?



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[jackattack]

Take the liner out of the boot and mark the spot where you have pressure on your big toe. Get a c-clamp and a couple appropriately sized pieces of wood or rocks or whatever. Smash the shit out of the liner.

Or punch the boot.

[gregL]

I got some Scarpa Alien RS to work for me as my daily touring boot, and having got the major width and heel hold concerns worked through, I’m down to the fine details.

First, the easy question- I need more length, specifically on my big toe, left foot. It’s steadily cold, and has just enough pressure to get sore on long days and successive days. I’ve tried putting a 3mm layer of foam under the Intuition toe cap and spot molding the toe with a heat gun, and I’m not feeling much change. Is there an more effective way to get the spot mold to make length? Maybe just stack more material in there to really compress the liner? I could modify my homebrew width punch to work for length and try to push out the shell there, but I’d rather just compress the liner more. Ideas?

Second question- I get INTENSE plantar fasciitis (Only while skiing down, rarely while walking up) pain in my right foot, and its only recently a problem after switching to the Aliens, never did it with the same footbeds in my TLT6’s. I have Sidas custom insoles, and I’ve been pondering spot molding them with my heat gun for more arch support. I’ve noticed they flex rather easily- I’ve also noticed that I feel like I have to tip my knee way inward to get engagement on the inside edge of my ski, possibly because the footbed is flattening? So, is it possible that I should post under the arches to create better support for the foot, and better engagement for edging? If so, what material would the homebrew bootfitter use for this? Or better just going to a legit bootfitter?

You will not get more usable length from trying to compress the liner more, the Alien RS liner is already paper thin with zero heat moldable foam to speak of in those areas. Although I've punched a few for width at the metatarsals and medial midfoot, the toe is a bitch to move (double thick band of carbon reinforced polyamide in the area you need to punch). Also, Scarpa specifically says not to heat punch this material, so the bootfitter needs to be pretty confident (i.e. willing to buy you a new boot if he ruins the current one, many people refuse to deal with it).

I would try a deeper depression under the metatarsal ridge before adding more support under the arch. There isn't a bootboard to grind, so you'll have to contour the footbed somehow (heat locally and depress with your thumbs, some grinding and/or posting may also be called for). If you are going to experiment, contact cement and cork or PU foam are both fine, I've posted tons of footbeds with both.

[riff]

Thanks GregL! I’ll try messing with the footbed tonight.


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[ASP]

The following is from my girlfriend...trying to figure out some boot issues:

I just put zipfits into my Technica cochise pro W boot. I am in a size 23.5 and my shell fit indicated that I have less than 15mm behind my heel and less than 3mm around the boot. As soon as the zipfits arrived I noticed that they were a lower volume liner than the stock liners (no major problem after punches until they got packed out). I skied one day and my heel was floating so I added a little less than a tube of cork to each tongue (slightly more on my right foot which is lower volume) and some (about 1/4 tube) to the heel hugger on my right foot. It improved but I am still getting movement in my heel and was also noticing that I was gripping with my toes throughout the day. I am wondering if I need new shells, more cork in the pockets, or just more time skiing the zipfits. We have more cork coming and I think I will start by adding more cork to the tongue and the heel hugger to try to get a better heel hold but was also thinking about the foreign 3rd pocket in the instep.


1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?
I have to clamp my buckles down tighter than I used to (1-3 notches) to try to prevent my heel from moving but my feet are hurting like hell by the end of the day even when I unbuckle between runs. The pressure from my buckles doesnt feel like even pressure, more like someone put a super tight strap around my second buckle.


2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks?
Circulation better with ice breaker compression socks... What I normally use.


3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?
Stock superfeet green footbeds.


4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?
Heel lift occurs when feet are unweighted and when skiing certain conditions. Skiing GS turns on a groomer, boots have amazing control but my buckles are still clamped down pretty hard. Skiing 3D snow I find that when I go to unweight my turn my heel lifts. I find that when they are working they are great but the line between working and being thrown off by my heel being out of control is very thin.


5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)
Heel wiggle occurs throughout the whole day, pain has been starting towards the end of the day when my boots have been cranked on to try to prevent the heel from moving.


6) BOW on the first vs the third day?
Has gotten better since I have added cork to the tongue and heel holder pockets, I think I will add more before the next day of skiing.


7) BOW on harder or easier terrain?
Better on groomers, worse on moguls and 3D snow.


8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?
I tend to have my power strap decently tight.


9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?
Noticed the movement the most in quick turns in 3D snow.


10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?
No

[mntlion]

1) please post in a readable color

2) sounds like boots are a bit big on you? try a LOT more zip-goo in the liner? thicker socks, thinker footbed and less buckle pressure.

3) try some of the volume reducing idea and see if that is BOW (not just what you are using, but what changes do)

[Nevada29er]

Anyone know where I can get foot boards for Head Raptor RS, size 28.5? The right one broke in half.

[senior researcher]

Ha ,double staack, double thicc.Hillary calves, k
cuntsts. I am gonna shalalp! Or traverse.

[gregL]

I just put zipfits into my Technica cochise pro W boot. I am in a size 23.5 and my shell fit indicated that I have less than 15mm behind my heel and less than 3mm around the boot. As soon as the zipfits arrived I noticed that they were a lower volume liner than the stock liners (no major problem after punches until they got packed out). I skied one day and my heel was floating so I added a little less than a tube of cork to each tongue (slightly more on my right foot which is lower volume) and some (about 1/4 tube) to the heel hugger on my right foot. It improved but I am still getting movement in my heel and was also noticing that I was gripping with my toes throughout the day. I am wondering if I need new shells, more cork in the pockets, or just more time skiing the zipfits. We have more cork coming and I think I will start by adding more cork to the tongue and the heel hugger to try to get a better heel hold but was also thinking about the foreign 3rd pocket in the instep.

I would have tried a shell with lower instep, smaller cuff circumference, and more contoured heel pocket before spending big money on the Zipfits. Salomon S/Max 110W comes to mind. But yeah, more cork in both ends to give it a fair shot.

[AZskibum]

The boots I bought this season are killing my desire to ski. I've only managed to do half days so far. Lange 140 xt3 LV 26.5. Seen two fitters, one in SLC, one in Flagstaff. Lots of punches, to make room in the forefoot. That has slowly made things better. The persistent issue I'm having now is arch pain, starting shortly after putting the boots on, even unweighted. The footbeds were for my old boot, and the fitter has shaped them twice to improve fit. He took a look and suspected I may need new ones.

The other issue I'm having is a big toe that feels jammed into the to box, even after trying to seat my heel back into the pocket. that foot is falling asleep with the lower buckles undone, and the top buckles on the second notch

Sucks, because the control is soo good. But the pain just becomes wild after two runs.

Sorta feels like maybe my toes need more space above them. Like something is applying pressure down across all the phalanx? Those toes fall asleep fairly quickly.

[mntlion]

1) arch pain: does it happen without any footbed? or with other footbeds?

2) Toe height: can you thin out the footbed, or the boot board in that area? Also you can cut a footbed and make it 3/4 length. Same support under arch, but more toe wiggle room

[gregL]

The boots I bought this season are killing my desire to ski. I've only managed to do half days so far. Lange 140 xt3 LV 26.5. Seen two fitters, one in SLC, one in Flagstaff. Lots of punches, to make room in the forefoot. That has slowly made things better. The persistent issue I'm having now is arch pain, starting shortly after putting the boots on, even unweighted. The footbeds were for my old boot, and the fitter has shaped them twice to improve fit. He took a look and suspected I may need new ones.

The other issue I'm having is a big toe that feels jammed into the to box, even after trying to seat my heel back into the pocket. that foot is falling asleep with the lower buckles undone, and the top buckles on the second notch

Sucks, because the control is soo good. But the pain just becomes wild after two runs.

Sorta feels like maybe my toes need more space above them. Like something is applying pressure down across all the phalanx? Those toes fall asleep fairly quickly.

Just because a footbed is "custom" made doesn't mean it's right for your foot - as with other things in life, the skill and experience of the person who makes it is key. Hard to give you better advice without seeing you in person, and I have no intention of going to AZ soon.

Boots can be punched for toe length as well as width, most experienced bootfitters have figured out a method that works for them. Lange XT3 bootboard is very thin and flimsy, but you can unscrew it and grind about 2mm off - if you need more (numbness is usually a sign of excess instep pressure) you can cut the whole front of the bootboard off (about 4mm thick) and grind the two retention bumps in the forefoot of the shell off.

[AZskibum]

Just because a footbed is "custom" made doesn't mean it's right for your foot - as with other things in life, the skill and experience of the person who makes it is key. Hard to give you better advice without seeing you in person, and I have no intention of going to AZ soon.

Boots can be punched for toe length as well as width, most experienced bootfitters have figured out a method that works for them. Lange XT3 bootboard is very thin and flimsy, but you can unscrew it and grind about 2mm off - if you need more (numbness is usually a sign of excess instep pressure) you can cut the whole front of the bootboard off (about 4mm thick) and grind the two retention bumps in the forefoot of the shell off.

Thanks Greg. I know, I wish I could make it up to the PNW to come see you. Yeah, my fitter was skeptical of the quality of mold. But DaleBoot made it, so I figured it would be solid. Maybe not.

When I take the boot off, I have a deep indentation running across the top of all of my toes, that I think is a crease in the liner. I also have some deep red marks on the widest part of the metatarsal. I'm going to mention a boot board grind to my fitter.

[NWFlow]

If it's killing your desire to ski, id honestly just get a new boot. I'd rather sacrifice a bit of control and want to ski...

[Lostintime]

Question for Mtn Lion, Greg, or anyone else in the know. Presently in 2015 salomon xmax 120. Was looking at the salomon s/max 1947 with a 120 flex. I have a low volume foot and have been happy with my current boots. How does the flex and volume compare? Was looking at the sizing chart and it says 25.5 is a mens 7. My xmax are 25.5 and I am a size 9 shoe. Is this worth checking out?

[Mustonen]

I’m not in the know, but I’m a size 9 in a Salomon 25.5.

That s/max is a lean fit, I know that much. Not sure how much different it is from the x/max, but my understanding is “some.”