the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[mntlion]

Thanks. . Eliminator tongues go on the sock side, right? Do they affect forward flex during uphill?
Is there anything like that for behind the calf that would stick on inside the liner? So I could get a bit more forward lean, rather than less?
I am going to order a pair anyway just to try them. cheap experiment

So you want to fill up more volume AND mor F lean?

Go to a ski shop and see if they have a rear spoiler from a boot (often removed and hucked)

[jhyatt]

So you want to fill up more volume AND mor F lean?

Go to a ski shop and see if they have a rear spoiler from a boot (often removed and hucked)

I ordered an eliminator tongue and some boot foam. No cheeseburgers

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[slcdawg]

I have a couple of days on my new S/Max's and as expected the wider foot is not happy. Getting lots of pressure and loss of circulation in my pinky/6th toe. Better to start with just a heat mold of the liners or do the shell mold as well?

[Falcon3]

I have a couple of days on my new S/Max's and as expected the wider foot is not happy. Getting lots of pressure and loss of circulation in my pinky/6th toe. Better to start with just a heat mold of the liners or do the shell mold as well?

I would put your footbed in the bare shell (sans liner) and stand up. If your foot hits the shell on either side, I’d punch the shell first. If it feels like the shell should have plenty of room, I’d just mold the liner.

[mntlion]

what he said.

also how does the new shell feel with an old liner? (cuz that is how it will feel once the liner is molded, or after 5-10 day of skiing)

[slcdawg]

Thanks, both. Will give it a try.

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[Supermoon]

what he said.

also how does the new shell feel with an old liner? (cuz that is how it will feel once the liner is molded, or after 5-10 day of skiing)

Any reason to not go ahead and just heat the shell?

[mntlion]

Any reason to not go ahead and just heat the shell?

the liner will mold to the foot with time anyways (if you heat mold or not, it will be the same in the end)

the shell will not change unless you need it to change. So during heating the shell will get bigger, and if this is not needed (becomes too big) its not really reversable.

if you are pressing hard on the shell now, then go for it?

[m14e50]

And what is the answer?

[Supermoon]

the liner will mold to the foot with time anyways (if you heat mold or not, it will be the same in the end)

the shell will not change unless you need it to change. So during heating the shell will get bigger, and if this is not needed (becomes too big) its not really reversable.

if you are pressing hard on the shell now, then go for it?

Makes sense. The Salomon reps always say just to heat mold the shell no matter what.

[mntlion]

Makes sense. The Salomon reps always say just to heat mold the shell no matter what.

reps say a LOT of things, some times they are even true/right

[gregL]

I have a couple of days on my new S/Max's and as expected the wider foot is not happy. Getting lots of pressure and loss of circulation in my pinky/6th toe. Better to start with just a heat mold of the liners or do the shell mold as well?

This shell is designed to be heat molded and it works well. It doesn't get bigger everywhere, only where there is pressure from your foot. If you've been able to ski a couple days in it, just heat molding the shell should be plenty; you can always do the liner later if needed but there isn't that much moldable foam in the forefoot of the liner and the shell moves better with a cold liner in place. Around 8 minutes @ 240 F. for the 120/130/130 Carbon.

[Supermoon]

reps say a LOT of things, some times they are even true/right

I'm shocked. Shocked I say!

[pfluffenmeister]

I've always been in love with the way my boots (Krypton Pro) performed, but I've had to unbuckle at the bottom almost every run.
Comfy while skiing, not so while not skiing.
Punched the inner ankles a couple of times, ground the big toes.

So I recently got some new Dalbello branded Intuition Powerwraps from a Panterra with a 102mm last.
Wasn't sure how well the larger lasted liner would fit in the Krypton.
Heat molded them with a double toe cap and a stick on pad on my inner ankle.
1.5 days on them and I haven't had to unbuckle once!

No shin bang from unseen whoopdedoos in flat lighting, shins were already pressured and the skis/boots just sucked em up.
No inner ankle or big toe pain at the end of the day.
No need to lose turns on pow days as I rebuckle my boots!

Hallelujah!

[mntlion]

I've always been in love with the way my boots (Krypton Pro) performed, but I've had to unbuckle at the bottom almost every run.
Comfy while skiing, not so while not skiing.
Punched the inner ankles a couple of times, ground the big toes.

So I recently got some new Dalbello branded Intuition Powerwraps from a Panterra with a 102mm last.
Wasn't sure how well the larger lasted liner would fit in the Krypton.
Heat molded them with a double toe cap and a stick on pad on my inner ankle.
1.5 days on them and I haven't had to unbuckle once!

No shin bang from unseen whoopdedoos in flat lighting, shins were already pressured and the skis/boots just sucked em up.
No inner ankle or big toe pain at the end of the day.
No need to lose turns on pow days as I rebuckle my boots!

Hallelujah!

so why do you think that is?

wider liner?
thinner liner?
more aggressive heat molding?

but either way, congrats. you have found the holy grail

[slcdawg]

what he said.

also how does the new shell feel with an old liner? (cuz that is how it will feel once the liner is molded, or after 5-10 day of skiing)

Not a lot of room in the shell. Its not quite touching on both sides but not much room side to side. Sounds like I should mold the shell

My old liner (intuition Dreamliner) is quite a bit thicker than the stock liner.

[pfluffenmeister]

so why do you think that is?

wider liner?
thinner liner?
more aggressive heat molding?

but either way, congrats. you have found the holy grail

I've got chicken leg calves and big boney ankles.
When I went in to get my inner ankles punched and took off my socks, my boot fitter was "WOAH, you have huge ankles!".
I figured he's probably seen more feet then I have.

Anyway, I think that the new liner is:

Wider last (102mm vs 98mm)
Thicker
Slightly softer (in the foot; uppers seem similar but the old liners don't have all of the various foam densities used printed on them).
A tiny bit longer

II think that all of this took up the extra space around my calves/ankles/toes and gave a lot more cushioning around my inner ankle.
I can more my toes very slightly in the new liners, but the velvet vice-grip makes one kind of forget that they are there.
Amazed to have no hot spot on my inner ankle at days end; in the past even on good boot days there would be a red spot if not a slightly painful to the touch inner ankle.
By season's end if I accidentally struck my inner ankle on anything it would evoke a vile stream of curses.

With the old lower volume liner I had to run the boots too tight to achieve desired skiing response.
IIRC I was running 2,3,4 on the ladders, now 2,2,2; when I initially did the carpet test I almost moved the top ladder to a wider position (don't think that will be necessary).

Heat molding was done in was essentially done the same (but with just a single toe cap in the old liners).

The first time I tried to get them into my Kryptons they must have caught funny as they were bunched up in the toe box.
Thinking they simply were too large for the shell I put the new Panterra liners up for sale for $75.
Thank God no one bought them!


Now I should probably track down a back-up Panterra liner.


PS My bootfitter also gave me some hard rubber wedges to (maybe) place under the inner side of my heel so as to slightly lift the inner ankle and move it away from the shell (as that spot is apparently hard to punch).
Don't think I will need them and never even carpet tested them to see if could tell a difference.

[slcdawg]

This shell is designed to be heat molded and it works well. It doesn't get bigger everywhere, only where there is pressure from your foot. If you've been able to ski a couple days in it, just heat molding the shell should be plenty; you can always do the liner later if needed but there isn't that much moldable foam in the forefoot of the liner and the shell moves better with a cold liner in place. Around 8 minutes @ 240 F. for the 120/130/130 Carbon.

Thanks for the info. Agree there isn't much foam in the liner, at least compared to my old liners.

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[Supermoon]

The newer shells from Salomon only need a 4 minute cook I believe.

I would check what plastic you have on yours

[gregL]

The newer shells from Salomon only need a 4 minute cook I believe.

They say that, and also recommend using the cold packs, because they think people are in a hurry. Personally I think 6-8 minutes (with a warm oven) works better, especially with the 130/130 Carbon, and letting them air cool in 12-13 minutes gives you a better mold.

[gregL]

. . . (as that spot is apparently hard to punch) . . .

It is only hard to punch if you have an old Scott punch with a short lever arm. It's no problem with a newer Keyser or SVST punch.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ Good to know.

[wolfy]

Question for the collective- I'm at my wits end with a decade too long boot issue. I've gotten plenty of good info here over the years, but now need some help. Long term skier, ex patroller lots of foot issues- heel spurs, high arch and instep, mortons on both feet, history frostbite (Lange XLR's, Whites) and feet tend to swell after a few hours of skiing, no matter what temps. Been to the best boot guys I could find Reno/Tahoe, they've all put me in wide 26.5's, 120 flex and then punched the forefoot out to 105+.

Now getting chilblains on previously injured toes that turn purple and burn, blister and bleed by the end of the season. Currently in some new Dalbello Panterras with new orthotic footbeds w/heaters, and the issue is coming back. The shells have been heat molded. I measured both feet w/brannock (both near 26.5, +/-) and over the instep w/soft tape (28.5). Would bumping up a size solve any problems or am I chasing my tail??

Any thoughts are appreciated in advance, I know there's a lot of experience out there. And yes, I have tried the red ones...

[mr_pretzel]

http://www.verdonkracing.com/product/metal-din-shims/

Does anyone here have experience with these? I use plug boots and would love to have something to keep the heel and toe lugs in better shape. Do you guys think there would be issues with the binding interface? Would it break DIN norm even if it is at the correct height?

[iriponsnow]

^ they work; Head has em in their catalog or ya get em from Cold River. Needs to be routered for DIN.