the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[blackalps]

got Cochises this this season for a 50/50 boot cuz they fit my feet the best out of the box. They ski ok. went with a 1.25 finger fit. First 10 days they killed me but I stuck it out and didn't mold them. Middle 20 days they fit great. Now I'm up to about 45 days on them and they are all packed out and my feet are banging around in there, especially when driving larger skis (like my 192 length 124 uf, or 188 length 114 uf). I'm skiing harder and want the control, do I have to go down to a one finger fit with a boot with a harder liner and expect to punch? Can I fix this with an Intuition in the Cochise?

[mntlion]

got Cochises this this season for a 50/50 boot cuz they fit my feet the best out of the box. They ski ok. went with a 1.25 finger fit. First 10 days they killed me but I stuck it out and didn't mold them. Middle 20 days they fit great. Now I'm up to about 45 days on them and they are all packed out and my feet are banging around in there, especially when driving larger skis (like my 192 length 124 uf, or 188 length 114 uf). I'm skiing harder and want the control, do I have to go down to a one finger fit with a boot with a harder liner and expect to punch? Can I fix this with an Intuition in the Cochise?

1) can you please convert fingers into a more common unit of measure, like cm ?

2) what direction is your foot banging around?
a) up/down
b) front/back?
c) pronation roll?

[blackalps]

1) can you please convert fingers into a more common unit of measure, like cm ?

2) what direction is your foot banging around?
a) up/down
b) front/back?
c) pronation roll?

dunno about the CM. I have big fingers, but 3 different bootfitters said this was the proper shell size and going down would turn it into a "3-4 hour boot tops".

movement is side to side. windshield wiper effect. general loose fit side to side as liner has packed out. heel has very minimal movement vertically. they're fine if i'm sitting down or just walking around, but when I get really skiing on the big skis my foot feels very loose in there.

[mntlion]

dunno about the CM. I have big fingers, but 3 different bootfitters said this was the proper shell size and going down would turn it into a "3-4 hour boot tops".

movement is side to side. windshield wiper effect. general loose fit side to side as liner has packed out. heel has very minimal movement vertically. they're fine if i'm sitting down or just walking around, but when I get really skiing on the big skis my foot feels very loose in there.

1) you can measure the shell fit yourself (see my first post on this thread)

2) if its a lateral movement, then add some padding to the sides of the liner, You local boot shop should have some, or a high density camping pad?
or order some from https://www.tognar.com/blog/boot-fitting/
you basicall want to add padding to the liner, where you feel your foot is moving. Odds are 2-4mm per side, once compressed should be plenty

[swissiphic]

Hey Mtnlion; just curious, do you know if the carbon cuff of the Vulcan can be slightly molded using a heat gun? Hoping to shape the lateral wings contours just a bit more.

[mntlion]

Hey Mtnlion; just curious, do you know if the carbon cuff of the Vulcan can be slightly molded using a heat gun? Hoping to shape the lateral wings contours just a bit more.

I have not played with on myself.

but maybe start with warm water and increase temp slowly and see? I think water produces a more even heat then a gun?

but please let me know

[blackalps]

1) you can measure the shell fit yourself (see my first post on this thread)

2) if its a lateral movement, then add some padding to the sides of the liner, You local boot shop should have some, or a high density camping pad?
or order some from https://www.tognar.com/blog/boot-fitting/
you basicall want to add padding to the liner, where you feel your foot is moving. Odds are 2-4mm per side, once compressed should be plenty

I have giant hands, so it's pretty hard to get my hand into the cuff to measure, but it seems to be around a half inch. I was going to get a Scarpa Maestrale intuition liner to see if I could fix it, since it's much more substantial and dense than the Cochise liner, but given the info in your post, I think I'll head to a bootfitter today and see if I can do better.

[mntlion]

I have giant hands, so it's pretty hard to get my hand into the cuff to measure, but it seems to be around a half inch. I was going to get a Scarpa Maestrale intuition liner to see if I could fix it, since it's much more substantial and dense than the Cochise liner, but given the info in your post, I think I'll head to a bootfitter today and see if I can do better.

this is a good way to measure


1) What is the shell fit like for length? Remove the liner, put your foot in the shell only, have your toes lightly touching the front of the boot and see how much room is behind your heel and the boots shell. Use a pen as a spacer and measure this for thickness. You want 5-15mm (1/8 to ½ inch) of room. If you have more then 25mm stop here

[turnfarmer]

Hey Mtnlion; just curious, do you know if the carbon cuff of the Vulcan can be slightly molded using a heat gun? Hoping to shape the lateral wings contours just a bit more.

It depends on the Carbon Composite. If it is a Thermoplastic resin, i.e. polypro, grilamid, etc) it can be heat molded as that is how they are molded to start with. If it is a Thermoset resin(epoxy, others) heat will only weaken it.

What are Vulcans? Who knows for sure. I would guess Thermoplastic as doing Thermoset in volume,es is likely to be price prohibitive.

Maybe PM Federico?

[macon]

I have some Lange XT 130 Freetours in LV that were fitted to me a couple years ago (2017 season). They were great up until about halfway through last season when I started to develop a bit of shinbang from them and it's getting worse. I'm trying to figure out how to rectify it. The shinbang occurs just above my ankle in between the top buckle and the lower buckle. My heel feels mostly stable in the heel pocket, but there seems to be a gap in front of my shin I can't fill. Here's what I've done:

- I added an expert booster strap last season, and that has helped quite a bit, but the bang is still there. I'm also not sure if wearing the strap between the liner and the shell of the boot actually feels better to me, despite most people suggesting I do this... am I applying it wrong?

- I've been using orthotics for my foot since day 1.

- I went ahead shimmed the heel of my foot a few millimeters with inserts, and the forefoot at a smaller amount (so theres a bit of a heel rise) because I've noticed the liner is starting to pack out to some degree. I used that super dense foam core stuff which bootfitters typically use, but I can't remember the name of it. I'm hoping this helps as well, and the boot is already starting to feel more snug like it used to, but I'm still noticing some pressure at the front of my shins when flexing forward.

What else should I do? Go a little higher with my heel shim for more ramp angle? Throw a coozie in front of my shin? I'm considering switching to the Intuition Pro Tour liners in HV... is this a reasonable solution? Love the boots, but I'm not too impressed with these stock liners so far as they should last longer than this.

[mntlion]

1) how many days on them? most liners are good for 100ish days, maybe stretch to 200 if you are lucky?
solution: intuition liner.

assuming under 100 days:
2) can you add some padding to the shin, above or below that pressure point? or one the sides of it (if its a vertical line) basically you need SOME pressure on your shin, but you need it to be even on the whole shin. So where you have the ouch is too much pressure, but conversely other places must not be enough pressure, so can you add some to help even it out?

[macon]

1) how many days on them? most liners are good for 100ish days, maybe stretch to 200 if you are lucky?
solution: intuition liner.

assuming under 100 days:
2) can you add some padding to the shin, above or below that pressure point? or one the sides of it (if its a vertical line) basically you need SOME pressure on your shin, but you need it to be even on the whole shin. So where you have the ouch is too much pressure, but conversely other places must not be enough pressure, so can you add some to help even it out?

1) These liners have a pretty minimal number of days on them which is why I'm frustrated with them. Somewhere in the 40ish ballpark?

2) I'm thinking that's what I need to do, add cushion in necessary areas even out the pressure distribution. Do you know of any good methods to add cushion outside of just cutting up a coozie (or similar product)?

Also do you think it might help to give myself a great ramp angle in the heel? I've noticed the small amount I already did (approx 4mm) helped quite a bit, maybe if I shim even more? I just don't wanna overdo it.

Thanks for being awesome and answering too. This thread has been super insightful even to this point.

[mntlion]

1) These liners have a pretty minimal number of days on them which is why I'm frustrated with them. Somewhere in the 40ish ballpark?

2) I'm thinking that's what I need to do, add cushion in necessary areas even out the pressure distribution. Do you know of any good methods to add cushion outside of just cutting up a coozie (or similar product)?

Also do you think it might help to give myself a great ramp angle in the heel? I've noticed the small amount I already did (approx 4mm) helped quite a bit, maybe if I shim even more? I just don't wanna overdo it.

Thanks for being awesome and answering too. This thread has been super insightful even to this point.

start with level the heel stock and adding foam
https://www.tognar.com/blog/boot-fitting/

once you find the best shin padding, then play with higher or lower heel possition


what is the shell fit like on the boots?

[macon]

Ah yes I have those bontex insole shims, currently 4ish mm under the heel and 1mm under the forefoot. Thanks for the link, I'll see what I can do for shin padding first before I do any more adjustments on the heel.

Shell fits with 1.5 fingers behind the ankle/heel. I could probably afford to size down to 25.5 mondo, but this boot fit super well when I first got it fitted.

[blackalps]

this is a good way to measure


1) What is the shell fit like for length? Remove the liner, put your foot in the shell only, have your toes lightly touching the front of the boot and see how much room is behind your heel and the boots shell. Use a pen as a spacer and measure this for thickness. You want 5-15mm (1/8 to ½ inch) of room. If you have more then 25mm stop here

bootfitter said the shell I have is the right size. put a shim in underneath and some foam pads on the tongues and it seems much better. we'll see when I ski.

[smooth operator]

Z cuffs will work on an RS boot.
I'm running a RS 130 wide (with removable soles) and a ZC upper. 27.5 315mm lower with a 26/27 upper.
RS and Z uppers are the same shape, same ankle hardware and spine bolt placement.

Well that didn't work for me. I just tried to put a 25 RS110 upper on my 25 ZA and the pivots do not align. Granted they are not from the same year but still I am very confused.

[swissiphic]

It depends on the Carbon Composite. If it is a Thermoplastic resin, i.e. polypro, grilamid, etc) it can be heat molded as that is how they are molded to start with. If it is a Thermoset resin(epoxy, others) heat will only weaken it.

What are Vulcans? Who knows for sure. I would guess Thermoplastic as doing Thermoset in volume,es is likely to be price prohibitive.

Maybe PM Federico?

Called Salewa and posed the question...was encouraged not to attempt to mold the carbon cuff of the Vulcans. Don't think i'll dig any deeper.

[macon]

start with level the heel stock and adding foam
https://www.tognar.com/blog/boot-fitting/

once you find the best shin padding, then play with higher or lower heel possition


what is the shell fit like on the boots?

Alright I'm trying on my boots again right now. The foot/heel feels pretty solid, but I'm noticing the shinbang pressure point actually occurs near the top of the liner/tongue when I flex forward (above the powerstrap) and only occurs for me when flexing forward aggressively. I'm also noticing a bit of a gap directly behind my calf when flexed forward (but this gap closes quickly). The spoiler is in the right position for this gap, however.

Shell is approx 20-23mm from the back of my heel. Maybe too much room? This was a boot deemed appropriate by a fitter (Mondo 26.5, my street size is 9).

Anyway,
Seems like the eliminator tongue pieces might be the ticket... does this info change your mind on this at all?

[mntlion]

Alright I'm trying on my boots again right now. The foot/heel feels pretty solid, but I'm noticing the shinbang pressure point actually occurs near the top of the liner/tongue when I flex forward (above the powerstrap) and only occurs for me when flexing forward aggressively. I'm also noticing a bit of a gap directly behind my calf when flexed forward (but this gap closes quickly). The spoiler is in the right position for this gap, however.

Shell is approx 20-23mm from the back of my heel. Maybe too much room? This was a boot deemed appropriate by a fitter (Mondo 26.5, my street size is 9).

Anyway,
Seems like the eliminator tongue pieces might be the ticket... does this info change your mind on this at all?

your boot is too big

try adding an eleminator tonge and see if that helps also the power straps done up tight against the liner (between liner and shell) might help

I bet a size 25 shell will help solve the issue as well

[ski whore]

well, since I'm out of boots due to bone spurs might as well ask. what are best options for heel spurs? i have tried to punch (not in the best spot and with full tilts cant get much of a punch without messing up the forward lean spacer), i have ground out a cave for them, and have tried padding around them (on both the liner and directly on my foot under sock). without much relief i decided to take a week out of boots, hot epsom salt and apple cider vinegar soaks, and take ibuprofen. that's where I'm at right now...any one have other suggestions?

[swissiphic]

well, since I'm out of boots due to bone spurs might as well ask. what are best options for heel spurs? i have tried to punch (not in the best spot and with full tilts cant get much of a punch without messing up the forward lean spacer), i have ground out a cave for them, and have tried padding around them (on both the liner and directly on my foot under sock). without much relief i decided to take a week out of boots, hot epsom salt and apple cider vinegar soaks, and take ibuprofen. that's where I'm at right now...any one have other suggestions?

mtnlion might have some more insightful pro tips...but fwiw; I have ever so slight heel spurs that project rearward from the top of the curve of the heel bone...and are quite sensitive to 'just the right fit'. By your description, might be a different location of spurs...but....I've found with various boots over the years, that correct arch support/liner fit tension to prevent the spur area from rotating and torquing laterally through the liner into shell plastic was important, then, experiment with shims under the foot bed or liner or both to find the best 'sweet spot' for shell/liner to cradle the heel area. Or, if required remove material or change footbed. For some boots, careful punching by a seasoned vet was the only solution, with others, experiments with home mods proved adequate.

I did lose half a season due to ill fitting heels in one pair of particularly heinous fitting boots due to the development of bursitis...couldn't even wear regular footwear after it manifested and had to use flip flops for a few months. Any kind of even light pressure on the heel would cause a lightning bolt pain akin to the horror of tooth nerve/cavity pain. Having gone through that experience, correct general fit/shape of the heel area is the first thing I judge a boot on when looking for new ones.

[macon]

your boot is too big

try adding an eleminator tonge and see if that helps also the power straps done up tight against the liner (between liner and shell) might help

I bet a size 25 shell will help solve the issue as well

I freakin knew it. I was nervous it might be too big but this is what they put me in after it was great for the first day or two on the mountain. I'll get the eliminator and I guess I'll look out for a 25 for super cheap. Ugh.

Again, thanks for your help dude!

[mntlion]

I freakin knew it. I was nervous it might be too big but this is what they put me in after it was great for the first day or two on the mountain. I'll get the eliminator and I guess I'll look out for a 25 for super cheap. Ugh.

Again, thanks for your help dude!

I'm selling my dalbello LupoTi (green, not carbon) in 25.5

also some full tilts seths in 25.5 too.

both avail with well used liner, or new liner options.

[macon]

I'm selling my dalbello LupoTi (green, not carbon) in 25.5

also some full tilts seths in 25.5 too.

both avail with well used liner, or new liner options.

Might take you up on the Dalbellos... what's the BSL and price? They'd fit my shifts but wouldn't fit my pivots on my alpine skis. I'll PM you.

[nyskirat]

Less to do with my boots, more to do with my footbeds so bear with me.

On the bottom of my custom footbeds I had two blue "pieces" that helped position my foot and were underneath the heel. It seems like one has fallen off (perhaps when I molded a warm liner?) this year and my foot doesn't seem to sit correctly. And no, I never heated up the liners with the footbeds in before anyone asks

The fitter I originally used I don't have access to anymore unfortunately.

Can I fix this footbed with the help of another boot guy? If not, do I just go for one new footbed or two? They're only 8 years old, max.