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  1. #76
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    email me for a old stock, narrow, race boot.

    dave@fitcentre.ca

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  2. #77
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    Apr 2008
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    mntlion,
    Sorry for a jong question but... Can you elaborate on the pen technique for best method for checking front to back fit. I know there are fancy things you stand on that show how many mm. I had some guy stick a red stick down and tell me it was race fit. Also, I have narrow feet and am skiing head raptors. I think I have more than 2 mm on either side of my feet with liner out. I was told this was one of the most narrow boots.

  3. #78
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    Find a pen, stick, etc that is 5mm or 10mm wide, and use that as a gauge to see what the shell fit is like.
    I think of a race fit as 5-10 in lenght and lightly touching the sides of the shell.
    I dont sell Head boots in my store, but my narrowest boots are the
    lange ZA race/plug boot at 95mm
    Nordica WC (avail in 100, 130, 150 and new this year the EDT plates) in 95mm
    Salomon X3 Lab (95mm)

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  4. #79
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    An Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    boots are too big. sorry

    start trying on a 27 or 28's and get a 5-10mm shell fit.

    if you can make a 27 ghost work, PM me

    Just an update and a thanks to MTNLION for the help with boots.

    I followed the fit rules and your advice and went back to the ski shop to try a different solution for boots.

    I had a different fitter this time, who at first looked at the boots again and thought they looked "good". He talked about a "West Coast" fit for 2 fingers. Again I went over the fact that despite this the boots feel TOO BIG (even with wearing extra socks, booster strap and eliminator tongue + cork board). We ended up talking and trying on other shells.

    I ended up trading for Lange Banshee Pro's shell: 28.

    They feel MUCH snugger. I am pleased thus far with it, but have to get out on the hill. I may need some punching around the small toe, but I will wait to see about that.

    Again thanks MTNLION for the assistance in boot fitting.

  5. #80
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    and is the beer on the way?????


    glad it worked

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    and is the beer on the way?????


    glad it worked
    gladly

    let me know what post address

  7. #82
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    just let me know when you are in banff....

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  8. #83
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    Nov 2008
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    East Maui/East Vail
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    I have one issue I want to get a fitter to look at, but I'll throw it down here to get some input as I can't get to a fitter for a few weeks.
    Got soloman x-waves, intuition liners and cork type heat molded orthotics made with my feet hanging off the chair. Did get the orth's made for the stock liners and just put them into the intuitions. after a month off I ski several days and right foot has pain and cramping on top, over the foot bones, half-way between the toes and front of my leg. need them buckled pretty tight to keep my ankle bones to stay in the pocket and heel down. Were shell fit by fitter at the top of 4 in vail. Left foot feels great. feels like the middle of the foot is being squeezed together. Intuitions pack out much? Thanks, plan to see a fitter soon, can be very painfull.

  9. #84
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    Bellingham
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    squeaky boots. what's a good fix? silicone spray or something of the sort. I should steer clear of petrol based lubricants right?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    just let me know when you are in banff....
    done and done!

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitmanbob View Post
    squeaky boots. what's a good fix? silicone spray or something of the sort. I should steer clear of petrol based lubricants right?
    talcum powder
    what's orange and looks good on hippies?

    fire

    rails are for trains
    If I had a dollar for every time capitalism was blamed for problems caused by the government I'd be a rich fat film maker in a baseball hat.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitmanbob View Post
    squeaky boots. what's a good fix? silicone spray or something of the sort. I should steer clear of petrol based lubricants right?
    Ski faster.
    It doesn't matter if you're a king or a little street sweeper...
    ...sooner or later you'll dance with the reaper
    -Death

    Kaz is my co-pilot

    www.highwaytechnical.com

  13. #88
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    Dave - thanks for this thread...

    My issues (only boot related):

    '05 Nordia Speedmachine 10 Shell 27; Liner 27.5 (I was told 27 & 27.5 both used 27 shell and that diff is in the liners)
    Shell fit good for both length and width.
    Begin day on roughly in middle hooks on all bails.
    I have not generally dried my liners every night but the issue below happens first day, not just after I fail to dry.
    Sometimes 133%? I get foot cramps after 1st run; this goes away after a ride or 2 if I loosen on ride up... ( I generally have not done this all day but will adopt as SOP form here out based on your soments above)
    By the end of the day I'm maxed out on most buckles.
    Socks are med, not "thin" (if by thin you mean PolyPro liner thin)

    I have, historically, accepted the "need" to tighten over the course of a day and normal / inevitable.

    Based on your baseline above I'm guessing unbuckleing will help.. any other advice?

    Thanks!
    "Those 1%ers are not an avaricious "them" but in reality the most entrepreneurial of "us". If we had more of them and fewer grandstanding politicians, we would all be better off."
    - Bradley Schiller, Prof. of Economics, Univ. Nevada - Reno.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crampedon View Post
    I have one issue I want to get a fitter to look at, but I'll throw it down here to get some input as I can't get to a fitter for a few weeks.
    Got soloman x-waves, intuition liners and cork type heat molded orthotics made with my feet hanging off the chair. Did get the orth's made for the stock liners and just put them into the intuitions. after a month off I ski several days and right foot has pain and cramping on top, over the foot bones, half-way between the toes and front of my leg. need them buckled pretty tight to keep my ankle bones to stay in the pocket and heel down. Were shell fit by fitter at the top of 4 in vail. Left foot feels great. feels like the middle of the foot is being squeezed together. Intuitions pack out much? Thanks, plan to see a fitter soon, can be very painfull.
    sounds like a bit more padding around the heel will prevent that movement, then you can keep the toe buckles looser to prevent the cramping.

    or spot heat the liners, over that instep, and compress it more.

    intuitions pack (as do all liners) so also just wait a few days.

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitmanbob View Post
    squeaky boots. what's a good fix? silicone spray or something of the sort. I should steer clear of petrol based lubricants right?

    remove the mice in your boots....

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatNshallow View Post
    Dave - thanks for this thread...

    My issues (only boot related):

    '05 Nordia Speedmachine 10 Shell 27; Liner 27.5 (I was told 27 & 27.5 both used 27 shell and that diff is in the liners)
    Shell fit good for both length and width.
    Begin day on roughly in middle hooks on all bails.
    I have not generally dried my liners every night but the issue below happens first day, not just after I fail to dry.
    Sometimes 133%? I get foot cramps after 1st run; this goes away after a ride or 2 if I loosen on ride up... ( I generally have not done this all day but will adopt as SOP form here out based on your soments above)
    By the end of the day I'm maxed out on most buckles.
    Socks are med, not "thin" (if by thin you mean PolyPro liner thin)

    I have, historically, accepted the "need" to tighten over the course of a day and normal / inevitable.

    Based on your baseline above I'm guessing unbuckleing will help.. any other advice?

    Thanks!
    can you go thru and answer the BOW questions at the top of page #1? that will help me a BUNCH.

    sounds like footbeds or boots too big?

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  17. #92
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    Jan 2006
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    the ex-Motor City
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    1) What is the shell fit like for length? A sharpie is snut and a pencil is just about right...
    2) What is the shell fit like for width? light brushing to a wee bit of wiggle room.
    3) Do you have any footebds? Fast Tech custom fit orthotic foot beds. (flat feet)So now that your boot is within a workable size range in length, width and with a supportive footbed we can go on to getting more info.

    1) You just have one, thin, clean ski sock in the boots CHECK
    2) You just have a sock in the boot? (no thermals, jewelry, etc) CHECK
    3) Your toe nails are trimmed short? CHECK
    4) They are YOUR boots and not borrowed? CHECK
    5) You are just skiing in your ski boots? (not walking, driving etc)? CHECK
    6) You dry your liners out at night either with a dryer or remove liners? DON'T ALWAYS DRY BUT MORNING PAIN HAPPENS REGARDLESS.
    7) The left liner, the left footbed are in the left boot and this is on the left foot? YEP
    8) You are loosening the buckles if you are not skiing (while standing, on lifts, etc) NO - PRETTY MUCH NEVER DO... I'LL START.
    9) You are not skiing all day in new boots? NOPE
    10) Buckles are pointing to the outside? EXCEPT WHEN I CRASH


    1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser? TIGHTER as the day goes on

    2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks? Thicker = more pain earlier and beter fit later... generally go with medium weight socks

    3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?
    Won't even consider skiing without my orthotics

    4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)? UNWEIGHTED

    5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?) Pain is first thing in the am and generally goes away with a couple runs... fit becomes progressively loose through day - start out <mid point and finish day almost maxed out on bails.

    6) BOW on the first vs the third day? Pain- worse first day early, looseness worst by third day

    7) BOW on harder or easier terrain? SAME

    8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser? SAME

    9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions? NO

    10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last? NO
    "Those 1%ers are not an avaricious "them" but in reality the most entrepreneurial of "us". If we had more of them and fewer grandstanding politicians, we would all be better off."
    - Bradley Schiller, Prof. of Economics, Univ. Nevada - Reno.

  18. #93
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    try a few runs without the footbeds. Yes, without ANY footbed at all. I know that you need them, but it will give me some more info. also the pain relates to the footbed somehow as it is better without any weight on the foot. (is that correct)?

    are your calves tight? can you keep the foot flat on the floor, and get your knee past your big toe? (thinking that the pain might be tight calves, and as the loosen up with a few runs it getts better) try a few stretches before skiing/putting the boots on.

    any better with more or less forward leen in the boots? what about stiffer or softer?

    pain is not "normal" but some moving of the buckles is normal thru out the day.

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  19. #94
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    1) What is the shell fit like for length? Remove the liner, put your foot in the shell only, have your toes lightly touching the front of the boot and see how much room is behind your heel and the boots shell. Use a pen as a spacer and measure this for thickness. You want 5-15mm (1/8 to Ĺ inch) of room. If you have more then 25mm stop here

    2) What is the shell fit like for width? Now center your foot front to back, (same amount of room behind the toe and heel) and is the width of your foot touching the sides of the boots shell? You want anything from lightly brushing to 2mm per side. If you have 3mm per side stop here.
    Sorry for the newbie question, but does this apply to touring boots as well? Having only 2.5mm room in front of the toes and behind the heel sounds VERY tight for the uphill.

    EDIT: second question: I know I need to try on the boots, but is it true that Garmont and Dynafit have relatively low volume lasts, while Scarpa and BD are larger? I seem to never find a boot small enough, and I have tried Garmont (Megaride, Adrenalin and Radium) and Dynafit (ZZero andZzeus). Are there other low volume boot makers I should look at?
    Last edited by arne_and; 03-17-2010 at 09:32 AM.

  20. #95
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    [QUOTE=arne_and;2797058]Sorry for the newbie question, but does this apply to touring boots as well? Having only 2.5mm room in front of the toes and behind the heel sounds VERY tight for the uphill.?[QUOTE]

    yes, 2.5 mm is VERY tight, but the 5-15mm is a range. so most will be 5mm

    25mm is WAY to much

    [QUOTE=arne_and;2797058]EDIT: second question: I know I need to try on the boots, but is it true that Garmont and Dynafit have relatively low volume lasts, while Scarpa and BD are larger? I seem to never find a boot small enough, and I have tried Garmont (Megaride, Adrenalin and Radium) and Dynafit (ZZero andZzeus). Are there other low volume boot makers I should look at?[QUOTE]

    no idea, I dont retail any AT boots, but radiums have fit lower volume feet that I have seen. As you said, try some on, but if you are not sure, get smaller and tighter then you think you should.
    Also, what is tight to one person is not tight to someone else (like how much salt in a meal is too much, it is personal) try a bunch on and see what works for YOU

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  21. #96
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    Oct 2003
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    Iktsuarpok
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    So a quick one if you have time MntLion:

    Footcramps.
    Radiums (24.5),Palau wraparounds (25),some thin footbeds with little arch support,heatmolded with toecap.

    Foot (arch) are cramping almost instantly when I put the boots on and start walking.Depends a bit on the day. After 15mins it gets easier as the boot warms up. On the slopes (with wider skis) it starts after couple of minutes.
    Cramps in the outside of the foot,up from the arch and to the ball of foot.
    Hurts.Pain.Get down,open the buckles,take the lift and things are ok.
    Repeat ad nauseaum.

    As the garmonts own liners were totally shitty (didnt fit at all,whimpy and the toes stiching is useless) I first used the liners from my old Factors.
    Thin and whimpy but they did not have any padding in the sole so I could use the surefoot footbeds.It was quite good,or as good as I can imagine.
    The problem with them was that they packed out within 30 days and there were too much room in the ankle area.
    Experienced the same issues with my nordica speedmachine14s but even more quickly.Tried to adjust the canting angles but not with so much success..


    So. Started thinking that do I have too much stuff under the arch of foot (due to the palau wich has a lot of stuff there+the footbed with its own materiel),wich in turn results in cramping and making me even more bowlegged?
    What in general causes that kind of outside/arch cramps?


    Have visited some shops in lech,anton and isere,but the bootfitters have been "ooh,you dont want to buy boots from us? not intrested" attitudes.
    So I would really,really appreciate if you would have some pointers where to start!





    1) What is the shell fit like for length? 24-24.5 Garmont radiums. About 15-17mm behind the heel. Punched extra room myself for the toes,about 4-5mm.

    2) What is the shell fit like for width? How much,not much though. I have no way of measuring if it is 2 or 3mm. Feels that it fits relatively well compared to any other rando boots.

    3) Do you have any footebds? Have skied before wihtout footbeds with raichle thermoflexes (dead) and intuitions (dead),have been good. Went to surefoot and they said "get footbeds",wich cost 100Ä.Didnt work. Went to some other place in austria and they said "you dont need special footbeds,relatively low arch and no pronations"...

    The floggings will continue until morale improves.

  22. #97
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    BOW with different liners then?

    BOW with different footbeds (and same liner)?

    (trying to reduce the number of variables in the system)

    BOW if the toe buckles are loose or tighter?

    do you get this pain in any other boots? (do you have alpine boots?) have you gotten this pain in other AT boots before?

    BOW with some calf stretching before you get into the boots?

    so you can just put on the boots, not ski them, not flex, not even stand up and you get the pain?

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    BOW with different liners then?A bit better with the flat soled Factor liners+Footbed.No cramps under arch.then,a bit pain in the outsides of the foot.


    BOW with different footbeds (and same liner)?The thinner the better,cant even fit the surefoot footbeds because they have so much volume.



    (trying to reduce the number of variables in the system)



    BOW if the toe buckles are loose or tighter? Looser is better,but first in the morning,it does not help for the first 15 mins,arch cramps. The buckles are very loose on the footbed,feels like I have a good control so dont have to crank them down.Only when the innerboot softens up during the day,if have to tighten up a bit.
    (just found out why,the radiums shell has a striped bottom where the liner "sinks into" when it gets softer.I have to make a floorboard out of something thin to prevent that.i am an idiot...



    do you get this pain in any other boots? (do you have alpine boots?) have you gotten this pain in other AT boots before?


    Yes.Had it really bad in factors (broke,25.5,too big) a bit in the Zzeros (25.0 broke,a tad too big),almost nothing in megarides (25,raichles thermoflexes,sans sole).
    Have the same pain when I put the liner in my Speedmachine14s+the boots are tad too narrow near the heel,so I have some pressure from that allso.Very little when I used the original liners with footbeds.




    BOW with some calf stretching before you get into the boots?
    I do calf stretching almost daily and can get easily my knees over ankles.

    so you can just put on the boots, not ski them, not flex, not even stand up and you get the pain?

    Cold boots :

    - I put them on,ok.
    -I stand,starts to come a bit discomfort under the ark.
    -I start walking,it starts to cramp under the ark.
    -Open up in the lift,pain subsides.
    -Ski,start to cramp on the outsides and ball of the foot.
    -Open up in the lift,pain subsides.
    -Walking gets easier,but wouldnt want to do a 1hour hike...
    -Gets gradually less painfull during the day when the boot mushes up,
    but still get pain in the utside of the foot when skiing longer/harder snow/wider skis.



    And thanks Mtnlion for giving a thought for this! Feeling like I would fly to fucking ToraBora to get the boots fitted if I would have some kind of solution...

    The floggings will continue until morale improves.

  24. #99
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    sounds like boots are too narrow for you. (as the feeling gets better as the liners pack thru the day) can you keep the toe buckles 100% off (not just loose but totaly un-done?

    also sounds like less support in the footbed, or more volume in the boot vertically is better. Maybe thin out the footbed and the boot board, or go without ANY footbed at all.

    you are using a super thin sock?

    is your foot the shape of a rugby ball?

    knees over ankles ?? um, that is how most people stand up. can your knees go past your toes? more then 10cm past your toes (if you have a line from the end of your knee to the ground)

    Email me at dave@fatskideals.com for boot fitting questions,
    read where I'm skiing at http://www.fatskideals.com/blog.html

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    sounds like boots are too narrow for you. (as the feeling gets better as the liners pack thru the day) can you keep the toe buckles 100% off (not just loose but totaly un-done?
    Have to check that one out,the feeling just isnt that cramming feeling,like if you shove your foot into a 95mm race boot.It "feels" it rests well with. Have to measure my foot though,nobody has ever done it..
    Skiing with buckles open,well,with skinny skis I could do that,no problem but obviously with bigger skis I loose the touch to the skis.

    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    also sounds like less support in the footbed, or more volume in the boot vertically is better. Maybe thin out the footbed and the boot board, or go without ANY footbed at all.
    Will shave the arch support away from my footbeds today and go skiing with that setup. Just to check out how things feel and get more feedback


    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    you are using a super thin sock?
    Yep.


    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    is your foot the shape of a rugby ball?
    Actually yes. I have tiny feet compared to rest of my body.
    I have the shoesize 39 (skiboot24.5). I allso have relatively thin ankle area but thick calves.Makes the boot fitting even easier...


    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    knees over ankles ?? um, that is how most people stand up. can your knees go past your toes? more then 10cm past your toes (if you have a line from the end of your knee to the ground)
    Hehe...... Yes,I meant my knees can go just fine the 15cm beyond my toes,I do the indian stretching daily so no probs.

    The floggings will continue until morale improves.

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