the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[larzz]

My daughter, who is 18, has 3.5 seasons 200+ days on her Dalbello storms (came with intuition liners). Have been good until recently, now she is getting some serious shin pain. Boots were performance sized and properly fitted when new; she isn't complaining that the boots have packed out and they do still seem to fit ok in terms of performance... just not comfort wise. I was looking at the 'eliminator' shin pads on the web; I get the impression that the foam on the eliminators is a lot less harsh than the intuition foam, which might help.

I haven't laid my hands on the eliminator pads, so I can't get a sense at how well they would work in a mondo 22 intuition wrap liner... I'm wondering how well they would work with a wrap liner, given that they are designed for liners with tongues.

Any thoughts on how to approach this? Hoping to at least make the boots work until the end of the season.

[InMyUndies]

long top bails.

move top buckle over more (re-drill if needed)

thinner socks

remove any rear spoilers.

5-10mm heel lift.

Bails I assume are the wire part of the lower buckles. They seem long enough.

These have that silly rachet plate thing for the top buckle. I can move the plate part over till only one screw is holding it or redrill the to move the nibbed strap over. I will try both.

I had not thought about removing the rear spoiler. That alone gave me a bunch more space.

Ordered some heel lifts.

You're the man!!!

[mntlion]

I have been having an issue with some new Scarpa Hurricanes I bought. I did a shell fot for the 29.5/30 shell and the shell fits perfectly (just touching on sides and about 15mm behind foot. They have Intuition overlap liners. I used the rice sock method to fit them to my feet and use a standard Sole footbed. The problem is my left big toe, is pressed up against the end of the liner and is having pressure/low pain all day long. Not bad pain, but it takes awhile after I take the boots off before the pressure gets better.

I took it into a local show and he said he stretched out the liner but it didn't feel much better (my toes was still pressed against the end). He did a punch in the toe of the shell and it feels a little better, but still not what I hoped. Everything else about the boot is great and the right foot feels fine, it is just my left foot (which is slightly bigger).

Would a larger size liner help? How much bigger can you get a liner than the shell size?

get the shell punched again, and heat the liner with a hair dryer, and then rub the end of the liner over a broom handle to make more room. Or a full re-heat of the liner might work too. Add padding to the big toe, as well as the toe cap(s) and use a very thick sock for the molding.

a new liner wont help much, assuming the current one was molded correctly.

thinner socks on the foot when you ski might help too

[mntlion]

My daughter, who is 18, has 3.5 seasons 200+ days on her Dalbello storms (came with intuition liners). Have been good until recently, now she is getting some serious shin pain. Boots were performance sized and properly fitted when new; she isn't complaining that the boots have packed out and they do still seem to fit ok in terms of performance... just not comfort wise. I was looking at the 'eliminator' shin pads on the web; I get the impression that the foam on the eliminators is a lot less harsh than the intuition foam, which might help.

I haven't laid my hands on the eliminator pads, so I can't get a sense at how well they would work in a mondo 22 intuition wrap liner... I'm wondering how well they would work with a wrap liner, given that they are designed for liners with tongues.

Any thoughts on how to approach this? Hoping to at least make the boots work until the end of the season.

sounds like, after 200+ days, that the liners are just packed out. This is the same for just about anyone, and any liner. Try to re-heat the liners you have, but odds are this will only help for a bit.

try the eleminators, but again, I dont think it will help much. Try them on both the inside, or the outside of the liner.

odds are a new, liner will be much softer on her shin

[phatty]

get the shell punched again, and heat the liner with a hair dryer, and then rub the end of the liner over a broom handle to make more room. Or a full re-heat of the liner might work too. Add padding to the big toe, as well as the toe cap(s) and use a very thick sock for the molding.

a new liner wont help much, assuming the current one was molded correctly.

thinner socks on the foot when you ski might help too

Thanks for the tip about the brrom handle. I think that will help. The liners are still fairly new, so they have not packed out much, either.

[mindthegap]

is it possible to grind out the toe box at all on boots?

my full tilts are a bit tight on my big toe if my nail isnt trimmed down 100%, so would removing a little bit of front/side material from inside the liner help even a mm or 2?

[DarkFiz]

I bought a pair of BD Factors for this season since my Garmont Endorphins were stolen from our storage during the summer. The Endorphins, with the custom footbeds, fit me really perfectly, but I wasn't quite happy with the performance, they felt a bit too soft.

Size is 26, shell fit is two fingers. My foot is 100-101 mm at its widest, I think.

I've now skied some 25+ days on the Factors and every day has included a bit of pain in my feet, so here goes:

I have a tendency for overpronating, so custom footbeds are a must. I tried the stock liners for a couple of days, but felt like I had to tighten them way too much to get the proper performance out of the boots. Tightening the buckles that much caused my feet to go numb after a couple of runs.

Replaced the stock liners with Intuition's medium volume Luxury liners (26.5) and heat molded them like instructed. This was totally unbearable, I couldn't ski more than two runs without taking the boots off. Of course I was able to ski them "comfortably" if I took my footbeds out, but then it felt like I was in boots two sizes too big.

I feel huge pressure on the top of my foot (arch) and on the outer sides of my feet, from the toes towards the middle of the foot. I cooked the liners again and added a bit of cardboard on the top of my foot, a bigger toecap and thicker socks to create more room - this helped a bit. With the liner socks (yup..) I'd be able to ski for a while comfortably. I still had to buckle the boots too tight for good performance and again, I felt my legs becoming increasingly numb after a few runs. I figured I'd let them pack out and kept at it, but 20 days later it hadn't changed at all, even when I started using thicker socks to try increase the pack out rate.

Even shaved out a couple of mm's from the footboard to increase volume, but this didn't really help at all. I feel like buckling the boots too tight is the main issue. The boots feel fine when skinning, with the upper buckles open. When I tried to ski them without buckling them tight (this was in very, very snow with poor visibility -> backseat for sure..), I got pretty bad shin bang.

Anyway, I still feel the same pressure: on the top/arch of my foot, on the outer sides of my foot and my feet would go numb if I buckled them tight enough. Wrong boots? I had none of these issues with my previous boots. Intuition said when I asked them about this that they'd send me a lower volume liner and I'll definitely try that out, but I am kind of doubtful about how much it'll help..

1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser? Looser

2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks? Thinner

3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)? More comfortable without any, truly awful to ski without my custom ones

4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)? Skiing is the best, standing is the worst

5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?) Gets worse and worse after first run

6) BOW on the first vs the third day? No difference

7) BOW on harder or easier terrain? No difference

8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser? Looser

9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions? Didn't found any movement that'd help the pain

10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last? None

[mntlion]

sounds like the shell fit is OK, and if the only change was the liner (stock to intuition) then just re-heat/molding the liner should make it better.
1-2 toe caps (total 2-4mm)
thicker socks.
dont heat, but mold with your customs in the boot
tighten the buckles, anywhere that felt too tight A LOT, to help pack out the liner.
get the liners a bit hotter then you think you need them

can you convert fingers to mm for me please?

and thanks for answering all 10 questions, It does help

[DarkFiz]

Thanks!

Shell fit (not really sure where to measure this) is about 20 mm, 25 mm tops.

As I posted, I've already recooked the liners once after the initial cooking and did it with thicker socks, a toecap and placed the footbeds into the liner and then the liner into boot and then my foot. Will try this a second time when I just have the time for it!

I'm worried about instep height / fit, though, since I had the feet going numb issue with the stock liners as well. I feel like I have to crank the buckles of the cuff awfully tight to get a good fit / performance from the boots - how tight should the buckles be when molding them? I feel like I need all the volume I can get from the liners for my skinny feet and so far haven't cranked those buckles very tight in my previous cooking attempts..

[mntlion]

read the first post I made in this thread to shell fit the boots.

when you are nolding the liners, keep the buckles VERY tight if you want to make some more room in the boot, and loose if you want the boots to stay tighter. You are just compressing the foam more or less.

if you have to crank the buckles, and the shell fit is 20mm+, the boots are too big for you.

[ace..]

I suppose i have the somewhat of the same problem as the guy above, shell fit is ok and boot size is from what I think is OK. Right now I am in a 26.5 krypton pro i.d with superfeet cork custom insoles. I measure just a hair shy of a 28 on both feet. The 2 main problems I am having are circulation and pain in the bottoms of my feet. The circulation from what I assume is probably too high of an instep, and to battle this i lowered my insole a good amount and it helped a little. The pain issue is just awful, I can barley ski a big resort without having to go inside and take my boots off every hour or so and if it starts to hurt and im a distance from the lodge, pain is terrible and i can barley ski down without hunching over. I have a high arch and im thinking that the insoles made for me were also too high and are putting way too much pressure on my feet which also cause the bottoms to go numb. I have shaved down the insole a few mm's and it has done minimal help.


So my thinking is to get a different footbed? or lower it a significant amount. I am not sure, but something has to happen because it is quite painful.


1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser? Looser

2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks? Thinner

3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)? None, actually.

4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)? Hanging

5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?) Starts when I start skiing (gets better if i take my boot off after an hour and then ski again)

6) BOW on the first vs the third day? Same

7) BOW on harder or easier terrain? Better on easier

8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser? Indifferent

9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions? I ski big and drop from the sky quite a bit and that hurts..

10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last? Nope, but i broke my ankles when i was 16.

[DarkFiz]

Thanks again, mntlion! Suppose I will now get a chance to try out those new Technica's AT/sidecountry boots, heh.

[mntlion]

ace: so are you using a footbed then? is it better without anyfootbed?

where on your foot is the pain?

are you touching the shell anywhere during the shell fit?

dark: welcome: I'll have the technica's in stock for next year if you want a pair.

[ace..]

Yep i am using a footbed, and it is better without it. For the shell fit I have roughly 2cm from my heel to the rear when my toes are touching the front, and about 1cm on the sides of my foot.

The pain is on bottom of my feet, which makes me think its just the footbed.

[mntlion]

is it better with the buckles loose too?

sounds like instep height pressure causeing the pain, and a boot too big/wide (1cm on the sides is A LOT) to you have to over tighten it? just the wrong shape boot maybe?

[ace..]

Yeah i would say so, but then of course my foot moves too much and i don't get the performance i want. Instep pressure is what i am thinking as well, and I dont think the shell is too big, i just checked again and its not 1 cm. its probably half a cm or less. If i buckle the boot without a liner on my foot to a medium tightness it fits and there is no movement and i can walk without it giving any slop.

I can't tighten the boots all the way otherwise its just way too much pain and then there goes circulation. I think I will bring down my footbed a good amount more and if needed my boot board. If that doesn't do much then it's gotta be the wrong boot

[Oztracised]

mtnlion: Thanks for your input so far, I have the same problem as phatty. My boots (Scarpa F3s) fit very well everywhere else except around the left big toe.

I would really like to get the toe punched but, unfortunately for me, I live in Australia. The problem is that nobody here is prepared to attempt punching Pebax-shelled boots, only alpine boots. Are there any how-to tips I can pass on to someone here so I can get this fixed??? I'd be prepared to try DIY but have zero experience. :-(

Thanks!

[mntlion]

I'd start with a liner stretch, heat the liner wiht a hair dryer, or a heat gun, and go SLOWLY, until the inside is warm. They put the liner over a broom handle and stretch it until cool.

for a shell punch, heat the shell up with a water bath so the temps are all even inside and out, then punch the shell, and flash cool it with some snow...

[Oztracised]

Thanks again! Are you really saying that boiling water is hot enough for a shell punch? I would've guessed more heat would be required, but I freely admit I know nothing about doing this.

I suspect I might need to do the punch first so there's room for the liner to stretch into. It was moulded with thick-ish socks and double toe caps and I doubt it can go significantly thinner. There cannot be more than 1-2mm there at present. If I can get another 2-3mm or so all should be well...

[mntlion]

yup, we use a buffel, food serving tray, with water in it, all wineter to do most of our boot work. Nice that you get even heat, and can't over heat the shells.

[Oztracised]

Excellent! Just wanted to be sure I wasn't imagining things. Thanks for the great help mtnlion - I'm sure you've made many mags' feet very happy!

[powtario]

Thanks mntlion, this thread rocks.

I'm coming off 7 year old 27.5 XWave 10's. Finally. Got a killer deal on 2 year old 27 Full Tilt Konflicts ($200!) and with custom Sidas Comformable footbeds, length is perfect. I bought the boots straight up because they were so cheap, and since my brother uses 27 FT's I knew if I couldn't, he could.

3 shortish days on them after baking and new footbeds. Amazing, intuitive flex (my first time in a 3 piece), length is perfect, my toes have room and generally super nice. I am running into a bit of a circulation problem though, a bit in my right and more in my left, which after a couple hours results in some nasty cramping and numb toes. My arch is pretty high, and the baked liner is already very thin along the edges of the gap in the main boot piece ender the tongue. If I really crank down the buckles I get a pressure point running up along where the edge of the plastic is on top of my foot so I don't really want to bake them and just crank them down to compress the liner.

Is it best to punch out the plastic edges along the gap, trim them (what my bootfitter wants to do) or something else entirely?

Thanks dood!

[weasel1]

^^^^ What are you using for footbeds?

[mntlion]

pow: hard to say without seeing your foot, so I'd vote with your boot fitter (as they CAN see your foot and boot)
but yes, usually I just cut a small 1/2 moon shape in the side of the plastic, over the pressure point,

you are in VERY thin socks?
maybe you can grind the footbed thinner?
loosen up the toe buckle a bit?

and how the hell did you ski Xwaves, and then fit info a FT? they are NOT the same volume.....

[powtario]

I know you can't definitively say one way or another, but I was looking for your opinion because of FT's plastic if punching is better/worse/ineffective compared to trimming or another option.

I'm in the thinnest, most ridiculously expensive pair of Lorpen Sanp ski socks I've ever owned. I've bought great shoes (on sale) for cheaper than the socks. I'll talk to my bootfitter about grinding the footbed a little bit.

My XWaves were fit at Whistler during the early season staff sale when I was quite a bit more ignorant about ski boots. I was probably fitted by some guy who had been doing it for 3 days, the 'footbed' I bought didn't touch my arch, and with the XWave being the only top end model with the discount and a mountain of people lined up to buy boots, it was basically in-n-out. I typically skied with them very loose to keep them from hurting and then stepped up the buckles with the terrain. Definitely not an ideal fit.