Maggot snowmobile thread

[Mannix]

Attachment 162077

Rough day heading home for my buddy. Thankfully the sled was insured. Take it easy on the decent my friends.

eek. I _NORMALLY_ use a real snow tire. I can't remember the last time I did not have a real snow on the truck/van/ski car. This year, I was running Michelin LTX MS2s for summer activities (towing a 10k# trailer). They're basically brand new, and I'd not gotten around to buying Real Snow Tires (despite "MS2," they're not real snow tires) when it started snowing.

Huh, they're pretty good! Not bad at all, really!

Thought I might get by for the season without Real Snows. Last storm cycle, was driving to the hills, lots of people augered off in the ditch, found myself wondering just how the hell that happens, how do people spontaneously spin into the ditch/snowbank? What the hell are they doing wrong?

Last Monday, on the way to Vail Pass, right in front of Copper Mountain, was babbling away to my partner about something likely VERY important (right...), all of a sudden....hey.....my left hand is countersteering.....road in front of me was asphalt colored, a strip of snow between the lanes, but....huh, wait, started looking for the softest thing, big snowbank, not bad, light pole, bad, no traffic around, good, breakdown lane is snowpacked.....got it into breakdown lane, straightened out, 4wd.

Figure I got lucky. Studded snows now on truck. The Michelin really was quite good, but I guess there's something to that "winter compound" bit - the LTX is NOT a "winter compound" tire, and even Michelin says "reduced grip might be noticed at low temperatures."

Yeah, reduced grip out of the freaking blue holy crap.

Naturally, I've no idea what happened leading up to that picture, what tires he has, not armchair quarterbacking, just made me think of last Monday and how close I came to something similar. Spontaneous slide had NEVER happened to me....I'd also NEVER tried to go a winter without real snows. Coincidence? I think not.



Iain

[bushbiker]

Anybody in the greater SLC area? Picked up an M8 this season to do some sled skiing. Looking for snowmobile partners in the area as I learn off-trail riding and any other sled-skiers want to meet up for some riding let me know

[muted]

Great thread, learning a lot thanks to you guys. I've been out of the snomoski game for about five years, ready to buy something soon. What do you guys think of:

1) $6,899 2011 skidoo 800 ETEC 154 track
Adult owned and very well taken care of. It only has 1550 miles on it total and the piston update was done at 900 miles by Skidoo.
The only aftermarket part I've put on it is a Dynamo Joe clutch which is almost brand new. Brand new belt installed last week.

2) $5800 2009 Ski-Doo Rotax 800 R 154 Track, like new, this machine has low miles..529 miles.Runs, and looks like new. Has always been kept in garage or trailer

$1000 bucks more for an ETEC that has 1000 miles more too? I don't know much about the newer Skidoos.

Edit: One more option:

$4,500 obo
2008 Ski-doo Summit X 163"

1773 miles
Engine has new top end. Only one ride.
Crank and bottom end checked by Ski Doo mechanic to make sure it was in good shape. Took it for one ride to make sure everything was fine and was really happy with the results.
800 cc engine
Summit X package, Rebuildable shocks, Hood vent kit, Tunnel bag, Belly pan skid guard
163"x16"x2.5" non ported track in excellent condition.

[muted]

Anybody in the greater SLC area? Picked up an M8 this season to do some sled skiing. Looking for snowmobile partners in the area as I learn off-trail riding and any other sled-skiers want to meet up for some riding let me know

I'm in the area, might be ready by next week to go out. Hope to buy one this weekend.

[JeffreyJim]

Great thread, learning a lot thanks to you guys. I've been out of the snomoski game for about five years, ready to buy something soon. What do you guys think of:

1) $6,899 2011 skidoo 800 ETEC 154 track
Adult owned and very well taken care of. It only has 1550 miles on it total and the piston update was done at 900 miles by Skidoo.
The only aftermarket part I've put on it is a Dynamo Joe clutch which is almost brand new. Brand new belt installed last week.

2) $5800 2009 Ski-Doo Rotax 800 R 154 Track, like new, this machine has low miles..529 miles.Runs, and looks like new. Has always been kept in garage or trailer

$1000 bucks more for an ETEC that has 1000 miles more too? I don't know much about the newer Skidoos.

Edit: One more option:

$4,500 obo
2008 Ski-doo Summit X 163"

1773 miles
Engine has new top end. Only one ride.
Crank and bottom end checked by Ski Doo mechanic to make sure it was in good shape. Took it for one ride to make sure everything was fine and was really happy with the results.
800 cc engine
Summit X package, Rebuildable shocks, Hood vent kit, Tunnel bag, Belly pan skid guard
163"x16"x2.5" non ported track in excellent condition.

None? Ha. I honestly have hated every XP I've ever ridden. XM - different story. But if you are putting up money why get something that you'll want to change out?

That said you could buy that e-tec XP and upgrade to the new front end. But then you are over $7K.

I know I've seen better deals than that....

[muted]

Damn it. There are a ton of XPs for sale around here but no XMs in my price range. And I can't tell what the fuck the difference is between an X, a Summit Everest, or when XMs came out. And most of the ads don't always say if it's X-somthing-or-other.

Are Summit Everest worthy or are they XPs? Did XM come out in 2012?

Or if you had about $6500 what would you buy then, any brand, similar to an 800 XP?

[bushbiker]

Muted - I picked up a well cared for 09 M8 with 820 miles for 4500 this fall. Its my first sled and I wanted something, reliable, powerful, worry-free and proven for as cheap as possible. Thought these M8s fit the bill the closest. Older Polaris were out for what I had been told about their shaky reliability and didnt want to shell out for a newer one. The news Doos look sweet but the older (cheaper) ones didnt have as rave reviews as used M8s so I defaulted to the Cats. I knew all the options would be more than capable for me for the next few seasons, but picked what I thought would be cheapest and most reliable.

Loving the M8 so far, but not the most experienced rider so take it for what its worth. Good luck with the search

[muted]

Thanks, maybe I should get an Arctic Cat. Not many options though. Great to hear what you paid, thanks. Now I'm looking at a 2008 Arctic Cat M8 162" for $5500, 700 miles. I used to be a 'decent' rider with an old 2002 Summit, anything will be better than that. Wasn't a terrible sled though.

[Mannix]

The 11 ETEC Skidoo would be my choice from the options listed - the ETEC is simply an awesome motor, IMHO.

I CERTAINLY like XMs better than XPs, but I don't personally find the XP unusable - I like them plenty.

Edit - if you liked the 02 Summit, you'll LOVE an XP.


Iain

[muted]

Despite Kidwoos advice not to buy a 2008 M8, the guy said he had the diamond drive service done 100 miles ago on sled listed above. He said it was the most expensive oil change ever. He meant he had the diamond drive bearings replaced, right? I don't think he is knowledgeable to answer that correctly. Anyways, if that's been replaced am I good to go or should I just buy a 2009 or later? I think I know this answer....

[JeffreyJim]

Here is my $0.02.

Sleds are expensive. Yes, I bought a new one (twice ) and would do so again. Warranty, knowing how it was cared for, what oil was ran, if it was warmed up properly etc etc all make a big difference for these high output two strokes. Losing a top end sucks. Losing a bottom end makes you feel like you wasted all your money...

That said - if I had to buy used, I'd go for an E-Tec. That motor is plain "smart". It knows when its warmed up, has a fairly idiot proof break in, and is precise - not just in its power delivery but how it works in general (direct injection).

Mannix is right - the XP isn't unusable. And you can always add the XM front end, T-Motion etc if you want.

[JeffreyJim]

BTW muted, where are you?

[the_big_lepowski]

XP is definitely a worthy chassis, just different than others of the time so it seems like people who didn't own one didn't like them because they could never get used to the extreme rider forward position. As stated above I would definitely go for the ETEC over the Rotax engine, that Direct Injection is just soo much better. I think $5500 is a little steep for an 08 m8. You should be able to get at least an 09 for that price and there were some significant improvements on the 2009 m8. And as far as overall reliability goes it is hard to beat the 09-12 Arctic Cat m8's, at least in my experience. All of this coming from a guy who rides a Polaris haha. If I were doing it all over again though I would pick Ski Doo just for the Etec engine. And XM's are nice but the XP's were definitely improved upon throughout the years so don't be afraid of an 2011 or 12 XP.

[Dhelihiker]

2010 Dragon -My Voltage Regulator finally gave up, I had a nice tow out on Sat. I forgot how much fun towing was

Please everyone pray for my ECU

[Gone Skiing]

Around here $5500 has been the price point for low to mid mileage 2010 m8s. I'd say thats steep for an 08 unless it has good mods like float skid, slp kit, running board inserts.

[powder11]

Etec for sure. Fairly bombproof engine in an industry where wrenching and replacing ($) is part of the game. I know a guy who just rolled 15k on his '13 Etec. I rode an XP for a year before I got an XM and the difference going to the XM seems dramatic, but after riding a friends XP who wanted to try my XM not to long ago, it doesn't seem as much when you go the other way. You just need to throw more body at the XP for side hilling and boondocking around, so you might feel it more at the end of the day, but probably not at all if just using for ski access. I also rode a new summit sport which is basically an XP with T-motion and it seemed to ride more like an XP than XM FWIW. Since the XM's are so popular now and buddy is probably looking to upgrade from the XP to an XM, you can probably use that to your advantage and work a better deal on the 2011 etec. Wave $6k in cash money hundred dollar bills under his nose and see if he bites!

[kidwoo]

Despite Kidwoos advice not to buy a 2008 M8, the guy said he had the diamond drive service done 100 miles ago on sled listed above. He said it was the most expensive oil change ever. He meant he had the diamond drive bearings replaced, right? I don't think he is knowledgeable to answer that correctly. Anyways, if that's been replaced am I good to go or should I just buy a 2009 or later? I think I know this answer....

I don't think I would have said to NOT buy an 08' just maybe that at this point, you might as well look at a newer one for likely a similar price. I rely on a buddy's 2008 m8 on a regular basis to go get my sled sitting on the top of a mountain after a run.

And actually it's the 09-2011 M8s you had to replace the DD bearings on. 08s are just as reliable motor-wise as anything newer.

And yeah I still say in the under 7k used sled range, the 2010-2011 M8s can't be beat. In that they're easier to ride and infinitely more reliable than an xp or dragon (or pro rmk) from that era.

Like anything, you just need to know what the issues are. Last week I passed a guy on an 09 xp with the fucking secondary hanging off on the snow because the damn jackshaft broke in half from an obviously cooked bearing.

Muted: If you must go xp, at least go as late as possible (the 2011 e-tek). The handling gripes everyone has aside, at least they're not likely fail catastrophically in some way from an inherently shitty design somewhere.

On the m8s, the 2008s could be had in merkin cash for just over 4k 2 years ago.

[kidwoo]

2010 Dragon -My Voltage Regulator finally gave up, I had a nice tow out on Sat. I forgot how much fun towing was

Please everyone pray for my ECU

vibes...

At least it's during a dry spell.

[angrysasquatch]

roop roop




BBBBBRRRRRRAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[muted]

Indecision clouds my vision. I'm leaning towards an ETEC Skidoo now, thanks to you guys and also I just learned that it takes very little oil and has 5mpg better than a Arctic Cat (grain of salt taken with this number). So maybe a $1000 more (2010-12 Arctic Cat as reference) for a more reliable engine and savings on gas an oil is the way to go. Or do I have to do the top end pretty quick since it has 1500 miles on it which will cost roughly $500? No time to do it myself before a big trip coming up. Pistons were already done.

And the wrap on it is fucking horrible, do those peel off easy? I'm guessing no.

[JeffreyJim]

Piston update means a top end I assume. You could pull and go. I'd do top end at 2K miles on that sled anyway - but with it having been done at 900 Go to 3K...

[Gerome]

2010 Dragon -My Voltage Regulator finally gave up, I had a nice tow out on Sat. I forgot how much fun towing was

Please everyone pray for my ECU

Between having a spontaneous dynafit ejection on a 35 degree boilerplate slope during a full moon descent, and towing your sled three miles through boondock land, I can't decide which experience was the most intense part of the weekend.

[toast2266]

Thanks, maybe I should get an Arctic Cat. Not many options though. Great to hear what you paid, thanks. Now I'm looking at a 2008 Arctic Cat M8 162" for $5500, 700 miles. I used to be a 'decent' rider with an old 2002 Summit, anything will be better than that. Wasn't a terrible sled though.

As a reference point, in 2012 I paid $5500 for an '09 M8 with ~2000 miles on it.

So far it's been super reliable - no noteworthy issues. Only real expense was that I put a top end in it as preventative maintenance at ~2500 miles.

[icb12]

Muted - I picked up a well cared for 09 M8 with 820 miles for 4500 this fall. Its my first sled and I wanted something, reliable, powerful, worry-free and proven for as cheap as possible. Thought these M8s fit the bill the closest. Older Polaris were out for what I had been told about their shaky reliability and didnt want to shell out for a newer one. The news Doos look sweet but the older (cheaper) ones didnt have as rave reviews as used M8s so I defaulted to the Cats. I knew all the options would be more than capable for me for the next few seasons, but picked what I thought would be cheapest and most reliable.

Loving the M8 so far, but not the most experienced rider so take it for what its worth. Good luck with the search

Thanks, maybe I should get an Arctic Cat. Not many options though. Great to hear what you paid, thanks. Now I'm looking at a 2008 Arctic Cat M8 162" for $5500, 700 miles. I used to be a 'decent' rider with an old 2002 Summit, anything will be better than that. Wasn't a terrible sled though.

Pretty much the same story as bushbiker. Relatively inexperienced. Spend a lot of time on sleds, mostly work related. Mostly older stuff, 550 fanners and such that we can run on thin snow. Although I have pretty good chunk of time on a new pro. Wanted my own "toy" this winter.
I kept my budget to 4500$, and I wanted basically the best thing I could get for that.
People are REALLY proud of skidoos up here. And mostly all modified. I was looking for stock machine with killer maintenance records. 155" or bigger, Best Values I found were the older M7s and M8s. Although I checked out a few 05 doos, but overall condition and mileage turned me off of them.
Ended up buying a 2008 M8 163" with 1500 Miles, in great shape. I paid 3400$ for it.

[Mannix]

Indecision clouds my vision. I'm leaning towards an ETEC Skidoo now, thanks to you guys and also I just learned that it takes very little oil and has 5mpg better than a Arctic Cat (grain of salt taken with this number). So maybe a $1000 more (2010-12 Arctic Cat as reference) for a more reliable engine and savings on gas an oil is the way to go. Or do I have to do the top end pretty quick since it has 1500 miles on it which will cost roughly $500? No time to do it myself before a big trip coming up. Pistons were already done.

And the wrap on it is fucking horrible, do those peel off easy? I'm guessing no.

ETECs are less prone to dropping skirts than the non-etec 800s, I'd not worry about the top end for a bit.

The oil savings will be inconsequential, big picture. ETECs DO use less oil than non-etecs, if you're not on the throttle. On the bar, they consume plenty of both fuel and oil. That said, since I got ETECs, my oil consumption has gone down about a gallon a year, and miles are going up. There's truth to the fuel/oil thing, but it is not HUGE, really.

A horrible wrap? Is that possible? har. Easy. Heat gun. Get it hot, peel. The trick is going to be getting the residue off the plastic - if you don't, it'll collect dust and pine needles and bird feathers and look a whole different kind of horrible.

I'd do it. 11+ etecs are pretty bomber, and if you don't know that XPs "suck" (I don't think they do....), I suspect you'll like it Just Fine.


Iain