Maggot snowmobile thread

[jahve]

This is kind of a long story, so bear with me.

I picked up an '09 M8 new this year. It has about 200 miles on it. Up until this weekend, it would start cold on the first or second pull without any issues. When I tried to start it on Saturday, it wanted to turn over the first two pulls, but then nothing after that. Pulled the plugs and they were soaking wet.

Installed new plugs, and again it wanted to start on the first pull, but after that they fouled again.

Eventually tried holding the throttle wide open while pulling the start cord and it fired up. I didn't have any issues the rest of the day and figured that for some reason it flooded, but it wouldn't be an issue going forward. However, I tried to start it the next day after it sat over night and the same exact thing happened. Had to hold the throttle open while starting it to get it to fire.

I know I shouldn't have to be doing this, since I've never had to do it before. Why would this be happening? To much gas getting into the cylinders? Not enough air? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Here are a few thoughts and things to look at or consider.

I have had a few arctic cats over the past 10 years/worked on them quite a bit... IMO and the basic reason that a efi will start at wfo (wide fuckin open) is that cats shut off the gas delivery system when you pull the cord with the throttle at WFO. The reason they do this is so if it is flooded you can shut off the gas and get a flooded sled to start again. You are getting enough air unless something got in the hood and plugged it up or it could be that the rubber piece that elongates when the hood is open and delivers air to your engine is pinched but that is a long shot. Are you running this sled stock?

It does sound like you are getting too much gas or flooding the system. This could be a fuel pump problem - maybe - but I have seen fuel pumps go ou, you may be getting too much pressure in your fuel delivery system - that would be again be due to a faulty fuel pump, or your throttle may not be retracting fast enough - or look to see if your throttle is not returning to "idle" position - that can cause too much gas to get too much gas in the system.

Sometimes if they run too hot the it can cause the throttle can stick a bit and that would put too much fuel into the system. I doubt that it is the injectors as I have almost never seen one go bad but it could happen. If it was a injector and you had to replace it look you will have a o, square, or triangle on the injector and you would need to match it up. Injectors are pricey and I would pry just see if it comes back. If so hold her wfo and it should start again. Also on a sled that new you should get a code flashing on the speedo if it were a injector.

I have had a couple of beers so let me think about this and ask some people and I will get back.

It might have been a one time deal of flooding for some reason but if it comes back post again.

Last it could be that your ecu is telling the system to dump more gas into the system than is needed. For this one you would need a dealer to re-flash your ecu.

jahve

[JeffreyJim]

I just noticed a thin oily residue near/around my clutches. Assuming my PTO seal is fucked (again).

What kind of risk am I running if I take out the sled with this small leak? Its not like there was gobs of oil, just a thin film of oil/belt dust.

Thoughts? Why have I gone through two of these?

Jeff

(sled is an 04 Rev 800)

[Mannix]

Gone through 2 PTO seals, or 2 800cc engines?

If it is sucking air through that seal, Bad Things will happen. Cylinder goes lean, detonation, boom.

I can't imagine the belt would be too happy with that, either.



Iain

[Mannix]

Asked my snowmobile mechanic friend about the oily residue. His answer:

"Oily goo on 800s is 90% of the time the Y-pipe loose. 10% or less PTO crank seal. Sometimes a blown belt can yank out the seal, not that common. Y-pipe bolts loose or broken? Yeah, a weekly occurrence."

Check the y-pipe/bolts! He's been at the snowmobile game for 25ish years, and specifically, Ski-Doo. He's awesome; when I describe problems to him with my sled, he tells me *exactly* what I'll find - kinda creepy. But rad.



Iain

[GoNads]

Today was deep. That is all.

[ACH]

"Oily goo on 800s is 90% of the time the Y-pipe loose. 10% or less PTO crank seal. Sometimes a blown belt can yank out the seal, not that common. Y-pipe bolts loose or broken? Yeah, a weekly occurrence."

Check the y-pipe/bolts! He's been at the snowmobile game for 25ish years, and specifically, Ski-Doo. He's awesome; when I describe problems to him with my sled, he tells me *exactly* what I'll find - kinda creepy. But rad.

X2 on this. This has happened to everyone I know who has a Rev.
And those bolts aren't easy to get at to check or keep tight, I ended up having to by an bondhus Allen extension on a socket.
There is a good thread on this in snowest (sorry, I can't find the link at the moment).
It also offers a suggestion on hardware from McMaster-car to help eliminate the problem as well.

[RonMexico]

Today was deep. That is all.

I get vertigo just looking at those pics.

[backcountry1pr]

sweet pics nad. some good info in the last few pages too

[gwat]

don`t you hate it when this happens. got cut off so rather than pinning it and running over my buddy i hit the brake and that was that.

[backcountryislife]

Another killer weekend

sat (SLO)

Abby




not the best visibility... rode right into a hole... der-de-der


ALWAYS gotta have one of these!



sunday (RE)



Ab


Monday (back yard)



JP





Can we have another 3 day this weekend????

[dinlaroche]

Great day on the sled, with another 40+cm since this video....

[bakerpow]

I have been thinking about buying a sled for a couple years but just don't see forking out that kind of money for what i hear are some what unreliable machines. I have a couple questions, about how much do you spend in repairs a year (or do you do all the work yourself)? How much was your sled when you first purchased it?
What kind of sled?
Would you recommend buying one?

[Mannix]

I have been thinking about buying a sled for a couple years but just don't see forking out that kind of money for what i hear are some what unreliable machines. I have a couple questions, about how much do you spend in repairs a year (or do you do all the work yourself)? How much was your sled when you first purchased it?
What kind of sled?
Would you recommend buying one?

Do you like skiing powder?

Tired of liftlines?

At least a little mechanically competent?

Get a sled.

Sleds add a fair chunk of complexity to a day of skiing, but IMHO, it is worthwhile. My sleds have been very reliable for me - both older, both well taken care of.

If I were to do it all over again, I'd buy a utility sled - specifically, a SkiDoo Skandic widetrack. Or a Cat Beartrack. Something with a wide (20") track and articulating skid.

A mountain sled will go up stuff that a utility won't, when it is deep, but in CO, that's not been an issue, really, for us. A utility sled would work better for us 95% of the time, and on the 5% days where we need/want to break trail up "that," well, we'll figure something out.

I originally bought 2 sleds (search this thread, I know I blathered about this before) - a 99 Skidoo 670x and an 03 Summit 700. The 03 Summit is the last of the "ZX" chassis, the last of the Skidoo "old style" sleds. I've come to like it, a lot. The 99 670x is good for what it is, but, ehhh.

I paid $3750 for the 03, $1650 for the 99, 3 seasons ago. Both are reliable.

I like Skidoo because a friend is a Skidoo mechanic. If he were a Cat/Polaris mechanic, I'd have a Cat or Polaris.

Don't believe the hype - you don't NEED an 800cc, 163" track monster to get there. I put a 156" track on my 03 700, and it moves us around just fine. I also geared it WAY lower, which made it easier to crawl around in deep snow without blowing a trench out from under the track.

Search, read this whole thread, lots of info out there, but I'd spend $3-5k on a used Skandic WT or SWT, then Cat Bearcat, then 03 700 or Cat M7, in that order.

DirkDiggler rants (in this thread, I believe) about how all the dumbasses are using mountain sleds vs. utility sleds.

He's right, if you ask me. The days where you can't get it done with a utility sled are few and far between.




Iain

[GoNads]

It's been a good winter so far.

[bakerpow]

Thanks Mannix, i am most likely going to look for a sled for the next couple of years. I need to move to a different house first there is NO room. So i will have to suffer through a couple more years of skinning.

[cold_smoke]

Help me out...
06/07 Ski Doo Rev 800, or 09 XP?
I'm going back and forth. REV stability vs. XP weight. I hear 1 in 7, '07 800R's blow their top end within the first 1500mi so i am assuming that is why there are so many good deals on low mileage 07's right now. Those I know have not had any issues. I know the 08 XP's had some clutch alignment issues and have also heard that the XP chasis in general is more tweaky and requires more rider input . I have also heard the '06 800H.O was the best year of the rev chassy as far as reliability...
Ruled out the M8 because I want a clean burning sled and the M8 is porbably the worst in that respect... Would love the 2011 XP with the E-TEC engine but that is well above my price range...
I do plan to do some slednecking but this will be primarily a tool for accessing skiing. I just sold my Bearcat and am looking for a mountain sled. The bearcat was excellent for any ski terrain with roads (Buff Pass etc.), but for the stuff I am looking to get into we need to make the roads up steep mountains and the Bearcat does not come close to what I need. Ideally I would have both but that is just not an option financially.
Anyone have experience or input on the REV vs. XP chassis for ski access, tandeming, and slednecking?
thanks.

[Mannix]

08+ motors blow up "way, way less" according to my source, but yeah, there are some clutchy-things that need addressed (I'll take clutch issues over motor issues any day of the week).

For that reason alone, I'd buy the 09XP.

I spent some time on an 11 XP 800 ETEC a couple of weeks ago. A) scaryfreakingfast compared to my 03 700. B) it'd make a good access sled - the seat is way too short to comfortably ride two-up, but Canadian would be SUPER easy on it. Very comfortable. C) took a little while to get used to how tippy it is - more because my 03 requires some pretty significant body engrish to get it laid over, the XP just kinda did it for you.

The one I rode was a 154" track. 163" or whatever would be ludicrous. On that day, I got up everything on my ZX that I did on the XP, but the XP did it WAY easier. One little shot up a steepish hill was doable on the ZX, but get a run at it, pin it, hang on. No problem, it'd get there.

On the XP, you could STOP at the bottom of it, pointed across the fall line. Stand on the inside rail, creep it til it was pointed uphill, then drive up. No drama, no WOT, just, well, sure, let's go there.

I drove the XP into an untracked section of that hill, going "too slowly." Let off, then pinned it. The damned thing jumped out of the snow, got on top and drove up. My ZX would have buried itself.

blah blah blah. Only been on a Rev once, don't really remember it being all that different than the XP. Motor issues alone, though, I'd get an 08+ sled; the new 800s do blow up, but it seems to be a rarity compared to the 01-07 engines.

What would the Bearcat not do?

After riding the etec, I kinda fantasized about a 163" 800 etec with a longer seat for access (and really, Canadianing would be SO easy on that thing....), but then that money thing got back in the way. I suspect a long XP will go up just about anything you point it at.



Iain

[cold_smoke]

Thanks, good info.

The bearcat was a 660 4-stroke (like a 300 2-stroke) no turbo. It could go anywhere that was flat or up anything that was packed well. sustained untracked hills were a no-go. Even 'packed' hills made by 2-strokes were an issue as the wide track would only puchase on the outside of the narrow trench and as it got deeper the running boards would high center if that makes sense... It was only like 35hp but was geared like a truck in 4wdLow so you could but 4-5 people on it an go up a cat road no problem. It definitely had its place, but I need something else now...

[Mannix]

Thank you - kinda confirms what I suspected; the low-power utility sleds are not for me.

Kinda-really want a 99 Skandic WT with the 600cc liquid engine, as my 670x will bolt right in. ~125hp utility sled, I think that'd be a good combination.

Just gotta find one. Bah.



Iain

[cold_smoke]

The standard skandic has much more power and less weight then what I had. The Bearcat is pushing 800lbs @ 35hp with a full tank! It was clean and quiet though and did great (though very slow) on Buff.

[JeffreyJim]

FWIW, I've ridden XPs and Revs a fair amount. The REV is a bit heavier (50ish lbs) but all things considered, I don't think you'll go somewhere on the XP the REV wont get to. They both tip over pretty easy (depending on setup, VERY similar to me). Rider position is slightly different but not enough for me to really notice.

The XP is simply a small evolution over the REV, not some complete redesign IMO. If I were picking, I'd go REV for the cheapness. Both motors blow up, both need clutching help...etc.

That being said, I'd still look hardest for an 08+ Polaris IQ something or other. Such an easy sled to ride and fuel injection rules.

[Mannix]

Hard to put a number on it re: 800s exploding, but last time I was at the shop, they were _surprised_ to see an 09 800 with a hole in the block - second or third one all _year_.

Past couple of seasons (that I've been paying attention to this crap), they were taking in 2-3 exploded 800s a _week_. There was a constantly changing line of blocks on a bench.

They do all blow up; pre-08 seems like a "will," post 08 seems like a "might." I'd buy "might," unless the price is REALLY right, but, well, I don't want a day cut short by the deathrattle. Dunno. I guess an exploded clutch can ruin a day, but in my head, you can fix the clutch before it breaks, it should be fine from that point forward.

Fuel injection does rule, though. The 11 Etec was ridiculous - stone cold, halfway through a lazy pull on the cord, the thing lit off. I like.



Iain

[cold_smoke]

the EFI was the major reason I was considering an M8... and super easy to ride. Real high resale value on those- seems like the toyota of sleds as far as resale, I guess just less supply... but they have their issues as well.

[kidwoo]

Jesus christ.

If you buy an older sled that 'blows up', you just didn't pay attention and it's your own fault. That's all there is to it. If there's any model year that had a problem (like pre 06 revs and piston rings, 08xps and clutches, or OG IQ polaris 900s and cranks, or original dragon burn downs), at this point it's well documented and if you get one and you don't change what's a known faulty setup, you deserve what you get. But to play dumb consumer and just pretend snowmobiles implode out of nowhere when the information is out there just goes to show how much of a dealer's dream you really are. Don't know your ass from your elbow with a socket set? Stick with those pretty orange skins you just bought. Literally every single model of every single sled ever made in the last 10 years is still running somewhere. I think you'll find a directly proportional relationship between a sled's reliability and its owner's reliability.

It's just like cars (and mountain bikes or anything else). Brand new model years with newer designs may or may not work. But when a problem gets to be known, fix the damn thing and life is good. Otherwise things like snowmobiles become this ethereal mystery box that may do something amazing to you at any second with no way of knowing........ooooohhh spooky boo!

[FreakofSnow]

If anyone's in the market for a good 1999 RMK 700 let me know. I've got one for sale over here > http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...olaris-RMK-700

She runs solid and has a good ski rack setup. Two place tilt trailer also available!