Maggot snowmobile thread

[VC]

There's nothing funny about people trying to pawn off large ticking time bomb turds that are going to be nothing but headaches for the suckers who buy them. Kind of like buying a used DH bike.

Do your homework, figure out what goes wrong with different year sleds and learn to fix shit yourself and its not that big of a deal.

[kidwoo]

There's nothing funny about people trying to pawn off large ticking time bomb turds that are going to be nothing but headaches for the suckers who buy them. Kind of like buying a used DH bike.

So what you're saying is that just because YOU are completely inept with no mechanical aptitude and can't ask the right questions or know where to look, or what to look up, it's a safe assumption that everyone else is too.

Good to know at least. I'll definitely never buy anything from you.....especially a bike. Them damn things is just so dern COMPLICATED!

[Jethro]

I have one of those 800 RMK's (2002) with the known bearing problem. My sled has been great for the last four years, and I am the third owner. I use it for ski touring access only. If it blows up, I think a twin sled motor would be way easier to replace the crank on than a single cylinder dirt bike is. No gears or clutch to deal with.

[AKturnanburn]

Ironically I'm pretty hard on my sled, but my first engine blew at 900km, and my 2nd engine in it is now at 6000km and still super strong/even at 150/150 compression. Usually top ends go at ~4000km. Super surprised.. but I still bought the extra year warranty just incase.

Theres so many variables, its tough to judge how long almost anything will last on a sled. I've seen top ends do 5-6K mi or 500 mi I think the most important thing is to be well informed on the aftermarket solutions to stock problems and vise versa. Also preemptive maint/repair and knowing what signs to look for before one little thing blows it all.

Like anything in the gear world, you can dial it for durability or performance, I read the crap out of the doo talk and snow west forums and listened and asked questions for a long time. Thankfully I feel like I've had a pretty solid grasp on the issues and solutions for the last several years now, and it makes all the difference in my comfort and confidence when out and about in the mountains.

The only problem is how its all constantly changing and I get sick of keeping up, so I just stick with what I know nowadays.

[Trackhead]

There's nothing funny about people trying to pawn off large ticking time bomb turds that are going to be nothing but headaches for the suckers who buy them. Kind of like buying a used DH bike.

I've bought/sold/rebuilt a ton of motos, and this statement is kind of silly. Short of inspecting every bearing, tranny gear, rod, etc, it's kind of silly to assume that there's some way to predict engine failure. Unless the buyer admits to gross neglect, buying used will always have risks.

[simple]

Good to know at least. I'll definitely never buy anything from you.....especially a bike. Them damn things is just so dern COMPLICATED!

Nice. Seriously, sleds (and DH) bikes aren't that complicated. Hey, if you want to keep your mechanic/technician busy and with $$ in his pocket then you aren't doing any wrong there either.

I buy everything motorized second hand. It pays to do your research and have mechanical skills.

[powder11]

So what you're saying is that just because YOU are completely inept with no mechanical aptitude and can't ask the right questions or know where to look, or what to look up, it's a safe assumption that everyone else is too.

Good to know at least. I'll definitely never buy anything from you.....especially a bike. Them damn things is just so dern COMPLICATED!

I think it's pretty safe to assume when people put serious hard miles on sleds that you really don't want to deal with the eventual cavalcade of replacing blown shit. Any money you might save buying used will be spent soon enough in parts, service and/or your time. Sadly, the used sled is good for awhile, but then just sits in the driveway because you know when you ride it, something else is going to blow and you could possibly be looking at an expensive long line out of the bush. Sure, if spending all your free time wrenching some peice of shit back to life is fun for you, then by all means.

I bet there are plenty of used sleds that see little to no use that are just fine, so yeah asking the right questions and knowing how the machine was used is key. Knowing how most of my friends ride, I wouldn't buy any one of their sleds 2nd hand.

[kidwoo]

I think it's pretty safe to assume when people put serious hard miles on sleds that you really don't want to deal with the eventual cavalcade of replacing blown shit. Any money you might save buying used will be spent soon enough in parts, service and/or your time. Sadly, the used sled is good for awhile, but then just sits in the driveway because you know when you ride it, something else is going to blow and you could possibly be looking at an expensive long line out of the bush. Sure, if spending all your free time wrenching some peice of shit back to life is fun for you, then by all means.

It's funny how you seem to think what sounds like a second hand account, (or at best the single sled you've owned) is some widely universal given scenario. 800cc motors that put out 150+hp aren't something you should expect to just turn on and go for years on end, and never do anything with. It's not a corolla. Sure, don't buy sleds from people like that. (And now I know not to buy sleds from anyone you know )

Everything you just said applies to ANYTHING used if it were owned by a neglectful user. What modern sleds do performance-wise is pretty impressive but they're a precision device that needs maintenance. Just because your friends just expect to jump on and go and probably don't pay attention to things doesn't mean everyone does.

Do you just ignore oil changes on your car until your computer tells you? Do you just keep on truckin when you hear a funny noise your bike? Sure sounds like it. Sleds aren't as confusing to everyone else so stop assuming the rest of the world takes care of them as poorly as your friends do......or doesn't know how to fix things when they need fixing on mountain bikes either. I mean jesus the last 3 dh bikes spanning back 5 years ago I've owned are all being ridden by friends very contently with no problems.

Not everyone thinks performance equipment is some mysterious zoom box that's supposed to just run on its own forever.

[powder11]

It's funny how you seem to think what sounds like a second hand account, (or at best the single sled you've owned) is some widely universal given scenario. 800cc motors that put out 150+hp aren't something you should expect to just turn on and go for years on end, and never do anything with. It's not a corolla. Sure, don't buy sleds from people like that. (And now I know not to buy sleds from anyone you know )

Everything you just said applies to ANYTHING used if it were owned by a neglectful user. What modern sleds do performance-wise is pretty impressive but they're a precision device that needs maintenance. Just because your friends just expect to jump on and go and probably don't pay attention to things doesn't mean everyone does.

Do you just ignore oil changes on your car until your computer tells you? Do you just keep on truckin when you hear a funny noise your bike? Sure sounds like it. Sleds aren't as confusing to everyone else so stop assuming the rest of the world takes care of them as poorly as your friends do......or doesn't know how to fix things when they need fixing on mountain bikes either. I mean jesus the last 3 dh bikes spanning back 5 years ago I've owned are all being ridden by friends very contently with no problems.

Not everyone thinks performance equipment is some mysterious zoom box that's supposed to just run on its own forever.

since you must persist putting words in my mouth...

I live in Whistler. Every other driveway on my street is littered with some peice of crap sled and a sob story to go along with it. These aren't old sleds. I see and hear this shit ALL THE TIME!

What's truly funny about you getting all butt hurt about that comment is that I actually used it from teh owner of Valley Chainsaw in Pemberton. You probably never heard of the guy, but he sponsors 1/2 the Sledneck crew and is probably one of the most respected Ski Doo sled dealers in western Canada. I asked him about buying a particular used sled from a well known local rider and he threw out that comment with a bunch of other reasons why its a really bad idea to buy a 2nd hand sled. He also said he makes more $ fixing late model used sleds than selling new ones, so its not like he just wanted to sell me a new sled. I'm sure Nadia can back me up on Al's reputation as a straight shooter and what he would say about buying used sleds.

Feel free to go on and on about whatever point it is you're trying to make, but when it comes to buying sleds, I'm going with the expert's knowledge. Have a good one...

[kidwoo]

I'm not butt hurt about anything, just annoyed that someone who doesn't personally seem to know a lot about sleds (or bikes) has this werid need to spout off about an extremely common occurence that's provided thousands and thousands of people great days in the backcountry, either skiing or just sledding. Especially when you feel compelled to go blabbing in other people's for sale threads when you don't know the equipment, it's history, OR the seller.

You get that right?

[powder11]

I'm not butt hurt about anything, just annoyed that someone who doesn't personally seem to know a lot about sleds (or bikes) has this werid need to spout off about an extremely common occurence that's provided thousands and thousands of people great days in the backcountry, either skiing or just sledding. Especially when you feel compelled to go blabbing in other people's for sale threads when you don't know the equipment, it's history, OR the seller.

You get that right?

not being able to take a joke = butthurt

[kidwoo]

not being able to take a joke = butthurt

Massage it out for me? Spouting off with strong opinions about poorly understood topics based on your neighbors' driveways = Kind of stupid. I'm still dying to understand everything you know about what to look for in dh bikes too. Tell me about those......mostly based on what your neighbors break and what a guy down at the local shop says. I don't really care about making a joke in this thread. It's when you feel the need to go into people's threads where they're trying to sell things that are in good shape.

The great irony in all this is that there's a huge part of the sledding population that very intentionally buys older model sleds precisely BECAUSE the individual issues particular to a model become well known after a few years.........and can be addressed. Often times producing something that's far better than the same thing new. But of course that involves actually knowing what you're doing.

[PlayHarder]

And it's a lot easier to stomach upgrading components that are busted or worn out on a used sled than it is to start modding your brand new $14k sled (which is just as likely to break down and leave you stranded).

[kidwoo]

And it's a lot easier to stomach upgrading components that are busted or worn out on a used sled than it is to start modding your brand new $14k sled (which is just as likely to break down and leave you stranded).

Oh I agree. It depends on which route you'd rather go........a 14k sled comes with a warranty. You can either decide that's worth free fixes but lost ride time, or save a lot of money buying used with a good understanding of what to expect problem-wise and get ahead of the game with hindsight on a given model year. I like working on my own things (cars bikes skis whatever) because it helps me understand what's going on and where a future problem might be. Too many people just expect everything to work, all the time and never listen to what the machines are telling them. That's not unique to sleds though.

At least with the way the industry is now, I'll never buy a first year sled......warranty or not.

[powder11]

Massage it out for me? Spouting off with strong opinions about poorly understood topics based on your neighbors' driveways = Kind of stupid. I'm still dying to understand everything you know about what to look for in dh bikes too. Tell me about those......mostly based on what your neighbors break and what a guy down at the local shop says. I don't really care about making a joke in this thread. It's when you feel the need to go into people's threads where they're trying to sell things that are in good shape.

The great irony in all this is that there's a huge part of the sledding population that very intentionally buys older model sleds precisely BECAUSE the individual issues particular to a model become well known after a few years.........and can be addressed. Often times producing something that's far better than the same thing new. But of course that involves actually knowing what you're doing.

Hey man, if your sled is tip top, then anyone looking to buy it will be stoked. No need to get all testy about a few off the cuff comments I made based on my own personal exp and the advice from someone who sponsors/wrenches professional snowmobilers. Dan Treadway prominantly displays "Valley Chainsaw" on his sled for good reason.

My mechanical knowledge is a lot more than what you may think, but I really don't need to get baited into a an argument nor explain myself to some self important, wanna be jack off from the interwebz.

[kidwoo]

I wish I had a chainsaw sponsorship. Would make a sick hood ornament.

Serious question though, have you ever even owned a sled?

[slim]

Not everyone thinks performance equipment is some mysterious zoom box that's supposed to just run on its own forever.

Wait... what? Your craigslist ad said you modified the sled to ensure forever zoom boxing. I want my money back.

[kidwoo]

Wait... what? Your craigslist ad said you modified the sled to ensure forever zoom boxing. I want my money back.

I did do the eternal zoom box mod but the problem with that is.........you still have to lube the flux capacitor about every 1500 miles.

Kind of a misnomer if you ask me.

[JeffreyJim]

Wow.

Although I fully side with KW on this one it really is 6 one way 1/2 dozen the other. It comes down to your *real* total budget and mechanical aptitude IMO.

Nothing at all wrong with buying a used sled. Especially if you do your home work, seek out a vintage known to have a better track record and accept the fact that ALL SNOWMOBILES BREAK/WILL NEED FIXING. You are getting over 140HP out of .8 (yes, POINT 8) of a a liter. Think about that for a bit...

[mtnbiker/boarder]

I like to buy, ride hard what ever machine i am riding at that time ( i do maintance and up keep) and then in a few years sell. Always worked for me and have never heard a complaint. You always need to do maintance but just short of smoking the motor most stuff is not that expensive. Buddy just picked up an 05 600 fuel inject, with 1500 miles on it .. mint i mean mint condition, $2700, there are plenty of sleds out there used and good prices.........theres an old saying

RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE...especailly a sled .. it keep it clamped or stay off the throttle ..its kinda simple one or the other...

[powder11]

Kid, no where have I ever said sleds/bikes/vehicles are maintenance free. You're just being a big baby because I made a sarcastic comment in your "for sale" thread. Get over it already.

I'm buying a new sled because I want a baseline that I can trust and know is going to last me for years if maintained properly. Most of my friends who bought used sleds and ride 3-4 days a week are constantly repairing shit. The guys who bought new sleds are not. The concensous seems to be buy new, keep up with maintenance and avoid the headaches then sell when it's turning into junk. I tend to have the same view on vehicles. If you like wrenching on shit and have the time, good on ya.

My only real point is that the used sled market, which its sounding like is Whistler specific, is full of POS sleds that some chucklehead repeatably jumped off cornices, into crevasses, rolled over thousands of verticle feet, smashed through trees and then pinned it back together selling "like new" when in reality it's a giant turd that was never even maintained and is going to die soon enough.

[kidwoo]

Kid, no where have I ever said sleds/bikes/vehicles are maintenance free. You're just being a big baby because I made a sarcastic comment in your "for sale" thread. Get over it already. .

I was over it several posts ago. All I asked since your last post was if you had ever even owned a sled einstein.

Sounds like no.

I'm buying a new sled because I want a baseline that I can trust and know is going to last me for years if maintained properly.

Cool what did you get? "New" doesn't mean infallible, new means warranty. I wasn't kidding. Ask around about any 800 polaris from 2007-2010, any skidoo from about the same period, or about the guys who seized up their brand new Arctic cats from this year within the first 5 miles. Still do your homework. Anything made this year should be a good one though just in terms of ride quality. You'll be stoked.

[powder11]

I was over it several posts ago. All I asked since your last post was if you had ever even owned a sled einstein.

Sounds like no.



Cool what did you get? "New" doesn't mean infallible, new means warranty. I wasn't kidding. Ask around about any 800 polaris from 2007-2010, any skidoo from about the same period, or about the guys who seized up their brand new Arctic cats from this year within the first 5 miles. Still do your homework. Anything made this year should be a good one though just in terms of ride quality. You'll be stoked.

It's all good. We're all just a bunch of crankty bitches cuz there aint no snow! Hopefully that changes real soon. I rode a Summit 800 a bunch last season. Did some painting work for a cat ski operator and he let me use their sleds and I really liked it, so I'm going with a new Summit 800/e-tech engine. Heard they had some issues with the 1st yr e-tech, but its all worked out now. Who knows? Now I can go fuck the thing up and bitch that I shoulda just bought a good used one, right?

[Mannix]

I'm buying a new sled because I want a baseline that I can trust and know is going to last me for years if maintained properly.

Flawed logic. I'd agree that a new sled SHOULD give you years of trouble-free maintenance, but sleds are finicky piles. If I really thought that new would equal "trouble free with maintenance," I'd buy new in a heartbeat.

I experienced the same thing with dirtbikes; I rode older bikes (5-8yrs old), and mine would be a heap of crap once in a while - but for every time mine was a heap, there was another time when someone was having issues getting their brand new ktm-whatver lit off.

Now, if spending $12k felt the same as spending $6k or $4k to me, sure, I'd buy new - but that's not the case for me. Used sleds are not mysterious.

broken record, but seriously, you're rolling the dice either way - there's a guy on Snowest who is on his THIRD motor in <1000 miles, brand new sled. Sounds like the second one was an installation error (kinked oil hose), but still - brand new sleds make bad bang-rattle noises, too.

Don't think that you're going to have trouble-free sledding for X years just because you shelled out all the money. You might, and I hope you do - but if you don't (and the likelihood is not insignificant), remember this thread.



Iain

[powder11]

Flawed logic. I'd agree that a new sled SHOULD give you years of trouble-free maintenance, but sleds are finicky piles. If I really thought that new would equal "trouble free with maintenance," I'd buy new in a heartbeat.

I experienced the same thing with dirtbikes; I rode older bikes (5-8yrs old), and mine would be a heap of crap once in a while - but for every time mine was a heap, there was another time when someone was having issues getting their brand new ktm-whatver lit off.

Now, if spending $12k felt the same as spending $6k or $4k to me, sure, I'd buy new - but that's not the case for me. Used sleds are not mysterious.

broken record, but seriously, you're rolling the dice either way - there's a guy on Snowest who is on his THIRD motor in <1000 miles, brand new sled. Sounds like the second one was an installation error (kinked oil hose), but still - brand new sleds make bad bang-rattle noises, too.

Don't think that you're going to have trouble-free sledding for X years just because you shelled out all the money. You might, and I hope you do - but if you don't (and the likelihood is not insignificant), remember this thread.



Iain

Believe me, I hear what everyone is saying and I started out looking used, but the used market where I live is full of really crappy, abused sleds that have seen more action than a porn star. If I had access to some sled that some dude got drunk and raced across the lake a couple weekends a year and then got bored of it, I would be stoked. My reality is a bunch of kooks who get out almost everyday and put a regular beat down on their sleds. Most folks around here actually reccomend going new because of that. Obviously shit will happen. I've owned plenty of 2 stroke shit to know that it requires constant upkeep or it will turn to shit. Big difference between taking care of it yourself and knowing the issues then unknowingly inheriting someone elses broken toy.