Maggot snowmobile thread

[2stix]

What's the consensus on the newer e-tec 600 on the Scandik SWT as a ski touring sled with the aftermarket 1.75" track?

Will this thing climb moderate stuff unloaded, then be capable of towing 3-4 up a beaten track?

I'd love to know as well. This would be my touring sled of choice if I could get that question answered. All the videos I have seen it is a road maker and can pretty much go anywhere and take a shitload of stuff (people) but I have not heard anything about steeper hills.

[Mannix]

I have one; bought it last year. The one thing it won't do well is break trail through uncompacted snow up steeper hills.

Defining "steep" is the trick.

I've got a 1.75" track for it, not installed yet, but I _THINK_ that's going to be The Answer. Not 100% sure, but it should go a LONG way toward making it more effective on steep/deep/untracked.

Trackhead - saw your PM. We avoid towing like the plague. That said, 3-4 people on a 20 degree slope with a packed road in already, no problem, at ALL. None. A mountain sled would start fishtailing around a bit, but the SWT would not flinch at that at all.

The key is "20 degrees." That's still kinda flat (I incline-0-meter just about everything....my eye is pretty good). The SWT won't run into trouble towing or making roads until about 28-30 degrees, give or take.

I'm optimistic about the taller lugged track - should be putting it on this week sometime. Not sure if it'll eliminate or just greatly reduce the need for a mountain sled.

There IS stuff you simply can't get up with it unless there's a road in place.

It'll go up more than I thought it would, though.

Hard to describe - it is really pretty capable; the 600etec makes decent power, the sled rides like a giant RevXP (it is actually pretty fun), and you can make pickup roads ANYWHERE with it - mushy willowy creekbeds, no problem. If you can go backwards, you can go forward.

Steep & unbroken, ehhh, that's where it gets tricky. It'll go surprisingly far up that stuff. If there's room to turn out, great, it is actually pretty easy to turn out and head back down.

Steep, unbroken & no room to turn out?

It'll get far enough up that sort of thing that backing down gets freaking _scary_.

If I had to choose ONE sled to ski off, right now, I'd choose the SWT. You can work around its shortcomings.

With the taller track, it may well be a nobrainer - it does not need much more ascending (and descending) capabilities.

If there's a mountain sled around to poke holes, all is right in the world, you'll get it up anything that has even ONE track on it.

We often put 3 or 4 ON it and chug it up to the drop. That works well, if you can cram 4 on (two sitting, two standing), leave one sled at the pickup, everyone goes to the top, everyone skis down, two people go grab the remaining sled, fetch the Skandic, repeat. Works great.

Back on page...dunno, 20? 30? of this thread, Dirk talks about how if there were four or five people, and each had an (old) utility sled, drive all five out, use one to transport five up, five ski, five grab another utility, repeat til all five people and all five sleds are at the top.

He's right, and that's BEFORE they got a real motor & lost 100#.

Utility sleds are the way.



Iain

[Trackhead]

Great reply and very helpful. Thx

[backcountryislife]

Don't trust Mannix... dude rides some panzy short track sled, he doens't know what he's talking about!!




Good day out yesterday by the way, ran across some dude with some symbols for a name, and Mannix getting some miles on his new sled, it's ALMOST time for the season!!

[Tomcat67]

Headin out tomorro on vail pass.
Hopefully can ride to mangos for lunch in redcliffe. Lots of new snow since
Last weds.

[Mannix]

Hah! Was fun, thanks for letting me ride the shorty, Kaleb! I really get why people would want that - it reacts NOW.

I'll keep my beginner track, though, I'm nowhere near quick enough to keep up with that thing. The 146 is telepathic, think about shifting weight, it is doing it. I don't think clearly enough. The giant track is better for me, it does not do anything unless I TELL it to.

I'm headed back to JP Wednesday morning for a few more miles on the 163. Should be fun. The big track should be going on to the SWT this week, with some luck, and if this weather keeps up, it will be GOOD.


Iain

[cmcrawfo]

What's the consensus on the newer e-tec 600 on the Scandik SWT as a ski touring sled with the aftermarket 1.75" track?

Will this thing climb moderate stuff unloaded, then be capable of towing 3-4 up a beaten track?

I assume you already have one, that's why you are asking .... go out back an lift its ass up for a few reps.... now bury its track in 2-3ft of snow and do another set. IMO its way to heavy to be a serious BC touring sled.

I use a 2012 SWT 600 at a small ski hill, we tow a drag bar behind it and move park features, its a work horse. Its also awesome for Ice fishing and hauling fire wood across the prairies.

The style of front suspension (combine with its width and weight) makes it very difficult to side hill. This is something to think about...a beaten track, set by some mountain sleds heading up hill is not Michigan's groomed trail network. and a mountain slope is not frosted over pete moss.

If you have one, a few good buddys and you dont need to be home in time for dinner, give it a shot.

If you are looking for a new machine.... I would keep looking.

[Tomcat67]

Vail pass. 2 feet since last weds. Trailriding is pretty good right now

[mr walker]

Above Breckenridge...



I've put a lot of miles on our utility sleds at work and they're what I'm used to, but this summer I finally bought a real machine. Today was the first day out; there was about 6 inches to a foot on some old mining roads (I couldn't restrain myself anymore). HOLY SHIT THIS THING WANTS TO TEAR MY ARMS OFF.

Shoot me a PM or reply here if anyone ever wants to ride Zuma, VP anywhere close for that matter!

[Mannix]

OK, so now I have the 1.75" track on the SWT - it makes ALL the difference.

The SWT was good before. Yeah, it is heavy, but if you're getting one of these (XU chassis SWT) stuck on a regular basis, you've got a skillset issue. They just don't get stuck unless you tell them to.

NOW, it really IS a whole lot like a mountain sled - the taller track made an ENORMOUS difference. Not much in the way of unconsolidated climbing yesterday - needs to snow and I was very afraid of lurking rocks - but the little "up" in the picture below was effortless. Short, but steep enough to know for sure if the track was doing it.

I could have gotten the SWT up that with the old track. Might have taken a couple of tries, but I could have gotten it up there.

With the taller track, though, it was just effortless - rode right up.

Another big plus of the taller lugs - when you spin the track, the outer lugs actually move some snow now; the short lug track would simply spin across the top of the snow. Stand on a rail, spin the track, it digs, the sled pops on edge.

Now, it is still a 700# gigantic utility sled, but it just got a WHOLE lot more capable. The only thing that truly sucks on it is sidehilling on firm snow - and nothing will change that. Thing is, when it sucks to sidehill on the XU, the mountain sleds are not far behind - yeah, they're BETTER, but holding an edge on FIRM snow with two people on board is freaking hard.

The 13 SWT with the ETEC and taller track is freaking spectacular. No, it won't do what a good mountain sled will do. No way.

It is easily as capable as my 03 ZX Summit with a 156" track, though, and a WHOLE LOT easier to ride.

Mine is clutched like a Summit; I do wonder if that helps. Kinda has to. Engages at ~4500 vs 3000. Spinning the track is easy.

Dunno. I'm very, very sold on this thing for a ski access sled - before the track, yeah, it was awesome....but had limitations. "Tall" lug track?? FKNA.


Iain

[cmcrawfo]

Solid and honest review of the SWT. I am still not sold on its functionality.... but I suppose thats because there is variation in types of terrain and what you envision a sled doing for you..... in the end, so long as you are skiing more than you are sledding, its all good.

I'm pretty sure I have tandemed a 97' summit 500 up a slope that steep, and that sled only cost $1000, by your accounts its equally capable as a 03 Summit.

So the question is, is it worth it to buy a new(er) SWT for use as a ski touring sled? Probably not, when you could buy two 03 summits and still have money left over for a new motor for the same price..... but thats IMO. I am tainted, my 2014 Summit XM 163" just arrived and is ready for pick up!

Brap.

[pano-dude]

first day of the season

[Mannix]

We finally skied last Saturday - was good, CO front range, still pretty sharky underneath, but for mid-November, zero complaints.

Got another datapoint on the SWT - picture below. Roughly 2' of new snow in the past couple of weeks on top of whatever was there. Short, steep up, no tracks, no base. SWT drove up that with zero drama. The stock track COULD have gotten up that - it might have taken a couple of tries, but I could have done it (and once a road is in, the SWT will climb anything).

1.75" track? ZERO issues. With two people/two pairs of skis on board - probably approaching 500# of people and gear on the sled. Ran back down/up once, let it set up for an hour while we skinned/hiked/skied, drove the XM up it - the road had settled into a really nice, firm path.

Like the first sample, this hill is not something the stock-tracked XU COULD NOT HAVE DONE - but it did it SO easily that yeah, I could use utility sleds for skiing. Last year, I had the utility and a RT1000. The RT was great for making holes where the Skandic would not go on its own. This year, the XM will be used for the same purpose - but I'm not really envisioning using it that frequently.

The XM will be good for making sidehill trails - making shelves across hills. That's the one place the Skandic still scares me; sidehills with consequences. For the most part, we can get around them. If the snow is deep enough/untracked, I can get the Skandic on its side and churn across slowly.

Blown out/windblown sidehill? Eeek. It is a LOT of sled to keep on edge on firm snow - deep snow - "in edge" - it is fine. There's a road I want to use at one of our spots - old jeep/mining road. 99% of it is fine. There's a 50' stretch where the road drops to a creekbed, and the "road" is no longer there - it has washed out badly.

4' of snow on top of it, there won't be ANY road, just a rollover into the creek. If it is soft/I'm first through, I should be able to get the lumpysled on its side and make a decent path. Let it set up, no problem.

However, IF it falls off that sidehill in that 50', I'm Fucked. Capital F. No threat to body or sled, not a huge drop, but getting a sled OUT of that hole could be a giant pain in the ass. Stuff like that, you can't get around 750#, no matter what track it has.

I do wonder if part of why I like this thing so much is a combination of the 600 etec and the way it is clutched - the ACE motors (and 550 fan - shudder) are just anemic and have no "pop." Yeah, the loggers like the ACE for towing shit, but we're not really doing that. The 600 etec + pretty aggressive clutching, it behaves like a mountain sled - you can whack the throttle and stand it on its side, it goes rightnow.

I do think it is comparable to my 03 700 with a 156" track in terms of climbing soft/untracked. It blows the 700 out of the water everywhere else, though (from a skiing perspective). Hell, I'd rather ride gigantopithicus than the ZX, too - the modern "rider forward" crap really makes a difference.

That's kinda the problem, though - there's a guy here who has an older WT with a 600 liquid motor - I thought about doing one of those before I got this - he has the Cobra 1.8" track on his, and while I can't speak for him, I think he's of the same opinion - utility sleds with taller lugged tracks _work_.

Problem is, you either have to A) find a 600 liquid cooled WT/SWT, because I'm CONVINCED a big part of this is having a real motor, fix everything (they're all hammered by now), buy a $1000 track, etc etc etc OR B) spend $$$$$ on a 2012+ XU chassis WT/SWT.

It is a gamble. Hell, I was not convinced when I got mine, but I figured I could buy it, and if it did not work, trade it in/sell it and only lose "some" money - they're hard to find used (for good reason - not many, and those that have them have seen the light, brother beavis).

With the short track...eh. You kinda need a mountain sled, or be willing to take alternate routes/ski alternate stuff - on a 2' day, there'd be stuff that would be difficult or impossible to get up with the stock track/no tracks. Mountain sled along for the ride, though, no problem.

Tall track? No problem. Heck, there were days on the 99 S chassis/03 ZX chassis that it was so deep we had trouble getting TO anything steep enough to ski - those days are long gone, and that's where the SWT shines.

Now it goes uphill pretty well, too. win win win.

[tobytortorelli]

Some sledding stoke! Would rather be doing this most of the time now!!! No replacement for displacement!

[cmcrawfo]

Down hill pow carv = awesome.

Its super sweet when you can ride down the same slope as as the skier you tandemed up with.

[tobytortorelli]

Down hill pow carv = awesome.

Yeah buddy!, a few more...

[TroySmith80]

Selling my sled in Bend Oregon: $2400 '03 Polaris 800RMK 159" track, special seat setup for ski/board carry.

I have an 800 RMK snowmobile. This has been upgraded with:
- 159" Track, ported
- Powermadd handlebar risers
- Electronic Reverse
- SLP Pipe
- Extra hood vents for intake
- Left hand throttle

It also has a really cool custom seat. I used a Polaris ATV seat and built a framework to support it above the tunnel. This gives a seating position like the newer sleds and also allows you to carry your skis or snowboard ( splitboard, whatever) under the seat. This is a really great ski-carry system! Attn: Backcountry skiers and boarders, this works well.

Has 3,000 miles on it. recently rebuilt crankshaft.

[Mannix]

Has anyone skied Buff Pass recently? How is it? Are the roads in?

Thinking about a midweek mission.


Iain

[GravityDT]

Anybody riding into their BC zones in sledding boots and putting on their ski boots once out at the ski zone? Not sure if it's the combo of my Cochise ProLight boots and the running boards on my '11 M8 Ltd but man, my legs get all cramped due to the angle of my stance. Yesterday the few miles of whoops on the way out destroyed the legs before I even started to hike...

[toast2266]

Anybody riding into their BC zones in sledding boots and putting on their ski boots once out at the ski zone? Not sure if it's the combo of my Cochise ProLight boots and the running boards on my '11 M8 Ltd but man, my legs get all cramped due to the angle of my stance. Yesterday the few miles of whoops on the way out destroyed the legs before I even started to hike...

Yup. Got some cheap snowboard boots for the run in/out, switch to ski boots once we're in the area that we're skiing. I keep the boots in a duffel bag strapped to the tunnel - it's right over the radiator, so they stay warm-ish.

[powder11]

If the snow doesn't come to you, you go to the snow. Pics from the Pine Pass in Northern BC. Snowed 3 meters of tits deep blower in 2 weeks. Amazing sled zone.

Grandpa Leo still killing it at 65


Sub-alpine trees


CA-Pow!


This is what the biggest seasonal snowfall in North America looks like.


It was like riding a jetski in the ocean.


Sparkley alpine zone


winning


goodnight

[Eldo]

Awesome!

[crashidy]

Probably some of the best photos i have seen on this forum. Incredible

[kidwoo]

Anybody riding into their BC zones in sledding boots and putting on their ski boots once out at the ski zone? Not sure if it's the combo of my Cochise ProLight boots and the running boards on my '11 M8 Ltd but man, my legs get all cramped due to the angle of my stance. Yesterday the few miles of whoops on the way out destroyed the legs before I even started to hike...

Yep.

I built a rack with two snowboard binding baseplates with ankle straps to hold whichever I'm not using. Like toast, I ride out with my ski boot liners in some half size too big snowboard boots and then switch shells when it's ski time. It's solid as shit and pretty much the best way to go in my opinion.

[Jethro]

I have a good ski access sled for sale. I had shoulder surgery and don't anticipate using it this winter. 2002 RMK 800 with a 144" track. Aftermarket Van Amberg(?) heat exchanger for pulling people up hardpack trails. Nice ski and gear rack. Old style long seat which you can two up on for long road access. $1900 Aspen area