Maggot snowmobile thread

[turboLT]

I'd just find an affordable semisythetic and go for it. Can't remeber the name of it off hand. I'll see if I can find an old container.

Having played the oil game with jet skis, motorcycles, lawn mowers, cars (both N/A, stock turbo, and built turbo), I can promise you there is nothing special about skidoo oils. Oil is oil, so just make sure the one you buy has the right additives and you're good to go.

Edit: what I mean by additives is that some additives are harmful to certain types of motors. Ex: you can't use auto oil in a motorcycle because the auto oil has additives that cause a motorcycle clutch to slip.

Skidoo doesn't make oil; they buy it from an oil company and put their name on it, so just ask on a skidoo forum what oil that is. When in doubt, Shell Rotella is a cheap, high quality oil without additives.

[Blurred]

I disagree that all oils are equal. Look at what dudes are doing with amsoil.

Anyway, whatever you do, DO NOT mix oil.

[Dhelihiker]

Im all about the factory specs and run whatever oil they say to use. But then again Im the kind of guy that would spend $10 extra dollars on my many thousand dollar sled.

[SluffMgt]

http://denver.craigslist.org/rvs/2156465055.html.

Saw this and seems like a decent price. The engine looks really clean, and overall the sled looks great (can't tell exactly but looks like there might be some damage to the undercarriage of the body).

When buying a used sled, is it a good idea to have the sled checked out by a mechanic before buying? Thanks for your collective thoughts.

[RockBoy]

http://denver.craigslist.org/rvs/2156465055.html.

When buying a used sled, is it a good idea to have the sled checked out by a mechanic before buying?

That guy is also selling an 05 King Cat. I'd look at them both, with a mechanic. Both sleds have cosmetic damage to the plastics that could be covering up a bigger problem that you can't see. For 5k, I'd be tempted, but I'd keep looking considering there are newer less used sleds available for 1k more.

just my $.02.

[dfinn]

^that's pretty low miles and it does look clean from the photos. I don't know much about those 1000s but I'm pretty sure I've heard they are ridiculous heavy. Like yamaha heavy.

[Mannix]

I use the SkiDoo semi-synthetic; not because it is "SkiDoo," but because it is about the same price as any other "good" brand, and my skidoo mechanic friend tells me to - that or Redline (a bit more $$).

I've used other 2t oils in my other 2t engines, only deviated from the Skidoo oil in the sleds once, a Maxima snowmobile oil. Seemed fine.

One of my sleds came from a rental place. They'd used Walmart brand (Super Tech) 2t oil in it exclusively. It is pretty much "the" cheap 2t oil.

When I got it, I burned through the remaining Supertech and switched to Redline. The sled had 3600 miles on it at the time. Second season of ownership, I decided to put a top end in, Just Because. Before disassembly, I did a compression test - both cylinders were on the low end of the "ok" range.

It had just over 4k miles at that point.

It picked up some power (not a shocking amount, but better), got easier to start with the new pistons/rings, glad I did it. Sled has ~4500 miles on it now.

The 700cc Skidoo engine allegedly lasts forever - mechanic friend calls it a "10k mile" engine. Dunno if I'll keep this one THAT long, even using the sleds pretty much every weekend, we don't put miles on that fast.

4000 miles before a top end suggests that the cheap oil does work.

OTOH, mechanic friend suspects I'd not have needed to do a top end if "good" oil had been used. Impossible to say.

Last I checked, a gallon of Supertech was ~$32.00. I get my semi-syn Skidoo oil for $40. $8. I'll pay the extra $8, just in case mechanic-friend is right.

Mixing oils - big controversy on this one. I avoid it as much as possible, but in reality, it is pretty damned hard/inconvenient to truly _never_ mix oils, if you change brands, it is hard to get the res _drained_ before the new oil goes in.

I've never had a problem mixing "normal" oils. There ARE some castor-based-fancypants oils that have "do not mix with conventional oils!" all over them.

I've mixed Supertech with Redline, Redline with Skidoo and Skidoo with Maxima. No issues. I try to run the reservoir down low before filling, but even that seems overkill.

Most incompatible oils are marked as such.

I've also mixed/changed brands on my dirtbikes without issue. I have mixed two brands in a plastic cup to see what happens before actually doing it, again, no issues. I know plenty of people who mix with abandon - they buy what's on sale that week and don't worry about it. I've got two sleds, currently own 3 2t dirtbikes, have owned about 7 over the years, plus a handful of 2t lawn-implements. I've never had an oil-related failure.

I've never actually met someone who has had oils react and gel and seize a motor.

Shrug. Who knows I'm in the "avoid it" camp. I'm also in the "pick a brand and use that brand" camp. That said, when you DO change brands, it is hard to NOT mix - sure, you can get the reservoir empty, but there's still a bit left in there, and if it is going to clog up and oil-starve your engine, that's where it'll happen.

You could also put oil in the tank at 40:1 or so for the first "mixed" reservoir, if you're really concerned about it - even if it does clog the injector, the motor will run fine at 40:1. I do that every season for the first tank - it does not foul plugs, does not run smoky, seems happy.

Try to find out what oil is IN the res, if you don't know, and unless it is a fancypants oil, put the brand you'll use in and be done with it, IMHO.




Iain (and, while stirring the internet-says pot, premixed 32:1 dirtbike gas runs fine in normal cars and lawnmowers and stuff

[otter]

Anyone in SLC looking for a riding partner? I've got a couple people I've been riding with but I'm always looking to meet up with more.

This:


= this:

Yo, I am always interested in getting out.

[Mannix]

http://denver.craigslist.org/rvs/2156465055.html.

Saw this and seems like a decent price. The engine looks really clean, and overall the sled looks great (can't tell exactly but looks like there might be some damage to the undercarriage of the body).

When buying a used sled, is it a good idea to have the sled checked out by a mechanic before buying? Thanks for your collective thoughts.

Every time I ask mechanic-friend about the RT1000 he throws something at me. He HATES the 1000s. Seems like it'd be a decent access sled (if you must have a mountain sled), but they're heavy, as noted, don't make much more power than an 800 (something like 15hp more for 100# gained), and seem to have some reliability issues.

$5k puts you into a lot of other good sleds - M8, M7, various Skidoos, etc.

I'm drawn to those 1000s, but they're seemingly a lot of work to keep running - lots of electronics issues and whatnot. As far as I know, the motors don't grenade...."because they don't run long enough!" retorts Matt the Mechanic (who is a diehard Skidoo fan - if HE does not like a Skidoo product, it probably is a pile). hrmph.



Iain

[Tye 1on]

Just took a quick ride on last year's Ski-doo Summit, the 600 with a ?146"? track. Cannot wait to rent one and head up to Togwotee!

[Yukonrider]

A few from Monday...








00 Ski Doo MXZ 600 136 track with 2 inch paddles

[tahoermk]

Cheetah makes a nice rack but I spent a lot of time and money making my sled lighter so I use the EZ RAK. My buddy makes them here in Mammoth and this years system weighs only one pound and are guaranteed for life. Hit me up for a discount code.

Will your bro guarantee your tunnel? Looks, like a cool design though.

[Loon]

Where the sleds are bigger than the trucks we haul them around in.

[kidwoo]

Where the sleds are bigger than the trucks we haul them around in.

That's pretty funny.






Also..............


Bow down bitches

[Loon]

YEEEEEEEEHHHHAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWW!

please post pix of daisy riding.

[shralpingthegnar]

Mandatory road gap on the general

[RonMexico]

This is kind of a long story, so bear with me.

I picked up an '09 M8 new this year. It has about 200 miles on it. Up until this weekend, it would start cold on the first or second pull without any issues. When I tried to start it on Saturday, it wanted to turn over the first two pulls, but then nothing after that. Pulled the plugs and they were soaking wet.

Installed new plugs, and again it wanted to start on the first pull, but after that they fouled again.

Eventually tried holding the throttle wide open while pulling the start cord and it fired up. I didn't have any issues the rest of the day and figured that for some reason it flooded, but it wouldn't be an issue going forward. However, I tried to start it the next day after it sat over night and the same exact thing happened. Had to hold the throttle open while starting it to get it to fire.

I know I shouldn't have to be doing this, since I've never had to do it before. Why would this be happening? To much gas getting into the cylinders? Not enough air? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Mannix]

Too much fuel. It sounds like your floats are stuck open, or at least that's
a good start - the floats work kinda like a toilet, when you flush, the water
leaves the tank. The float falls, turning on the water. Once full, the float
closes the valve, stopping the flow of water.

Same thing in the carb, basically - when the engine consumes fuel, the floats
drop, fuel enters float bowl until the float rises to the correct level, stopping
the flow of fuel.

If the floats are leaking a little - worn out needle/seat (the needle fits into
the seat, stopping flow), a sunk float (gets a hole in it and fills with fuel,
not allowing the float to...float), something like that, the float bowl will overfill,
drain into the motor, flood it badly. The engine uses enough fuel when running
that unless the needle/seat is WIDE open, it'll likely run OK. For reference,
a sled will run for about 2-3 minutes on the fuel in the float with the fuel turned
off; the couple of ounces in the float bowl will let it idle for a bit with no
fuel supply at all. Actual riding, not very long at all - but unless
the float is leaking BADLY, just idling is probably enough to keep it from
flooding itself.

If you can get it started, it'll probably run fine all day - not enough time for
too much fuel to leak into the motor. Let it sit a while, fuel leaks in, etc.

A) I'm assuming the M8 is carbureted. I don't THINK those are fuel injected.
If FI, disregard.

B) Does it have a fuel shutoff? Some sleds don't like being trailered with
the fuel "on," as the float bounces and will create the same effect - each bounce
lets a little more fuel in. My 99 670x is allegedly one of those sleds,
but I always forget to turn the fuel off and it has only done that once or
twice - floods out, PAIN to start, but once running it behaves all day.

Chances are, that's it. Could be other stuff, but it kinda has to be
float-related. Take carbs off, take float bowls off, look for sunk floats,
maladjusted floats (find a manual on the internerd?), a piece of crap in the
needle/seat that's not allowing a good seal, etc. I had a needle/seat assembly
fail on a dirtbike - same symptoms. Bought a needle (expensive piece
of brass, basically, the seat on that carb was not replaceable), changed it
out despite the fact that the one in the carb looked FINE, _identical_ to
the new one, shrug, tried everything else....ding, worked. Bizarre. It does
not take much.

Air is easy to add to a motor - hold it wide open. Probably not a case of
"not enough air," if it runs right once running, that's not likely the issue.



Iain

[RonMexico]

Thanks Mannix, but it is fuel injected. Could the injectors be stuck open/leaking?

[hick]

09 M8 is EFI (mannix beat me to it). Try Snowest M-series forum.

[dfinn]

^ nice writeup but that sled is FI.

Have you been leaving it out in really cold weather overnight? If so, what you are describing is common.

edit: injectors can get crap stuck in them. really small particles that make it through the fuel filter but not through the injector(s). I've read that you can pull them out and blow them out with a compressor, never done it myself though so unfortunately can't give detailed instructions. If it's running fine once it gets started my guess would be that is not it.

[RonMexico]

It was outside overnight but I don't think temps got much below 10F. It's been out in much colder before.

I'm thinking the injectors must be stuck open or leaking for some reason. Really don't want to take it in for service. Any chance it self-corrects?

[Mannix]

Leaky injector? I don't know crap about snowmobile EFI; I know a bit about automotive stuff. If an injector is stuck open in a car - even just a smidge - the residual pressure in the system will let it leak into the motor.

Not sure what kind of injectors sleds use, but with automotive ones, the electronic injectors are basically needle/seat deals that are actuated by voltage from the ecu - blowing those out (or the older Bosch CIS ones) would be tricky; there's no real clear path THROUGH them when the injector is closed, they require pressure from the fuel to get shoved through.

BG44k is sometimes good at cleaning clogged injectors, but yeah, look at Snowest - chances are, it is not an uncommon problem. Kinda weird that it started out of the blue, that suggests that the programming in the ECU is ok.

I kinda hate carbs & love fuel injection, because EFI typically does not fail. That said, figuring out what's wrong is a WHOLE lot easier on a carbed vehicle.

Good luck - googled it, found lots of semi-relevant answers. I suspect it'll be an easy fix, seems like throttle position sensors are a problem.



Iain

[dfinn]

Any chance it self-corrects?

Maybe. There's only 1 way to find out...

and a little stoke from a very good weekend:

[45hill]

Just put on my ski rack. I left the snowboard rack on there just in case the snow is too deep for me to ski it. I am new to skiing last year and still kind of suck at skiing powder. This is a picture from the guy who makes the racks. He is using my sled in his banner that will be hung around town at local ski/snowboard and snowmobile shops. That is one damn fine looking machine.