Maggot snowmobile thread

[simple]

Again, the 2009 is carb'd get an etec. 154 800 is a workhorse, towing is no problem.

Car or truck? Weird question. What do you drive now?

[pano-dude]

I've seen a guy pull single trailer with a Subaru and did ok but when the snow is deep (12" for a car lol ) you'll be the guy everyone is swearing at cause you're stuck and in the way.

Truck with 4x4 and GOOD tires.

Only by an etech 800 if looking at ski doo first year was 2011 but for a little extra $ I suggest looking for a 2013. 100% better chassis.

2010 m8 is also a bomb proof sled, have seen many with 10,000kms and running strong.





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[simple]

I was that guy with the Subaru. Never had an issue with single place. Problem is that single place trailers cost almost as much as a double. So then you buy the double and that Subaru can't tow two on a double.

Did you say good tires? I think there might be a discussion going on about that topic....

[Snow Spirit]

I drive an Audi a4 wagon. I figured if there is enough snow to get stuck, I'll park and unload the sled, no?

This one then? Price is right? it's not red though?

Seems like a beater truck costs about the same as a good trailer. The insurance and maintenance is the real difference maker.


How do you guys feel about tracked ATVs?

[crashidy]

I drive an Audi a4 wagon. I figured if there is enough snow to get stuck, I'll park and unload the sled, no?

This one then? Price is right? it's not red though?

Seems like a beater truck costs about the same as a good trailer. The insurance and maintenance is the real difference maker.


How do you guys feel about tracked ATVs?

You should really read the thread. All been discussed before....

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[Wapow]

I'm looking to buy a sled for ski touring access in the Okanagan. Some questions for ya.

1. Beater truck vs Car and trailer?

2. Is this a good choice?2009 Ski Doo summit X 154

3. With the sled above, can I tow skiers or double up? Mainly thinking Snow covered roads to get to the skin track.

4. Where in Kelowna/Vernon should I get a radio?

5. Sled Storage? I live in Kelowna, work in Vernon. Any ideas for a cheap safe place?

I've owned multiple Ski Doos, both carbed and injected/ETEC and the carbed versions are just as durable and pretty much as powerful too. So don't worry so much about the engine type, focus more on the milage and condition (and the one you linked has too many miles - I put a new "short block" (reconditioned motor, comes from the factory) in whenever I hit 4000 miles, if I plan to keep a Doo long term). XPs (carbed engine version) are totally capable mountain sleds, but the handling was significantly improved on the XMs/ETECs. Another weird but significant difference is the throttle effort on the carbed version is way higher. My current main sled is a G4 and my backup is an '09 XP. I generally have to let beginnng riders use my G4 when we are heading out to access ski touring, because otherwise we will have to stop to rest their precious, soft little thumb muscles if I make them ride the XP. If you have the extra money get an XM, but if you can't get a decent XM at the top of your budget, don't buy one with a ton of miles or that looks thrashed, if you can get a pristine XP for the same price.

Regarding trailer v truck, if you don't have a decent tow vehicle now, sell what you got and buy a reliable truck. A used sled will require wrenching and you'll eventually have to learn to do some of it yourself. A beater truck will compound that cost and effort.

[Wapow]

I've seen a4 wagons pulling sled trailers, so it can be done. Probably not too bad if you get a decent single place sled trailer. Resist the temptation to buy a heavy steel utility trailer if you're gonna pull it with that audi. That fancy transmission probably isn't designed to really pull anything heavy for any length of time.

[eldereldo]

Truck vs trailer is really dependent on where you are riding. If it is out of plowed staging areas with lots of room a trailer is fine. If you are up a narrow logging road you might find yourself having to disconnect a trailer and turn it around by hand, Can be a pain in deep snow or if you can’t find a flat spot. Then there is the whole trying to back it down the road when it turns out you can’t get it up that last steep hill before the parking.

Also would suggest looking at Arctic Cat M sleds if you need to stay early and cheap. Fuel injected and the motors are very reliable.

[adrenalated]

Also would suggest looking at Arctic Cat M sleds if you need to stay early and cheap. Fuel injected and the motors are very reliable.

This. If your budget is small, buy the newest, best condition 2005-2011 M6/M7/M8 that you can afford. If your budget is higher, buy the best condition 2013+ E-Tec XM sled that you can afford.

[Wapow]

Whatever brand you get, make sure there is a good dealer reasonably nearby, for when you need parts and service. Cat shrunk its dealer network considerably over the past several years, so much so that there isn't a single Cat dealer left in the greater Seattle area. Closest ones to me are about an hour away, which becomes two hours once I factor in having to go pick up my sled from where I store it.

[pano-dude]

I was that guy with the Subaru. Never had an issue with single place. Problem is that single place trailers cost almost as much as a double. So then you buy the double and that Subaru can't tow two on a double.

Did you say good tires? I think there might be a discussion going on about that topic....

Always debates about tires for sure by "good" I mean more than 25% tread left.
I see lots of vehicles stuck(I'm a snowplow contractor) just because of worn out tires.

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[cmcrawfo]

Another vote here for buying a xm. It’s that big of an improvement in handling/maneuverability.

Just buy a cheap beofang radio on-line. 50$ (or less).

[anotherVTskibum]

Just buy a cheap beofang radio on-line. 50$ (or less).

Get a speaker mic, too, and depending on the generation of radio you may want to consider an aftermarket antenna--the original UV-5R rubber duckies suck and there are inexpensive aftermarket antennae with much better performance.

Also, please make sure you have the radio programmed responsibility. To be legal, you should have a ham radio license and be using it only in appropriate amateur frequency ranges, but using it on GMRS frequencies is unlikely to create actual problems. Just make damn sure it's not broadcasting on frequencies licensed to your local businesses or, worse, public-safety organizations. Programming software (Chirp) is free, and the cable is cheap, but some radios from eBay and Amazon are reportedly coming programmed with frequencies you really shouldn't be using.

[cmcrawfo]

You don’t need a license to operate it on the road frequencies ... and really, a 5w hand held is not going to cause frequency conflicts in the backcountry

[anotherVTskibum]

You don’t need a license to operate it on the road frequencies ... and really, a 5w hand held is not going to cause frequency conflicts in the backcountry

Out of curiosity, what are the "road frequencies"? The stuff I come up with Googling that turns up references to license-required bands (e.g. this, this and this) all mentions requiring licensing and that "The use of amateur, marine or user programmable radios are not permitted."

With that said, as long as you're not stepping on someone using those frequencies for road management (as intended), I'd agree that seems like a fairly reasonable place to be and that a 5W handheld in the backcountry isn't likely to be stepping on much. If you know what you're doing, there are probably a lot of frequencies you can get away with using at that power level without pissing anyone off or actively interfering with licensed users, but if you don't want to geek out on the radio stuff enough to understand how to avoid interfering, staying away from licensed bands is a good idea. GMRS seems to be limited to 2W in Canada (and the UV-5R isn't technically legal for GMRS use anywhere, given a lack of type acceptance), but you're much less likely to be stepping on public-safety use and should be able to interoperate with the BCA radios if anyone in your party has them.

At least in the U.S., there have been reports of Chinese radios from eBay and Amazon showing up preprogrammed with frequencies that overlap with Part 90 frequencies assigned to businesses and/or public-safety agencies. That, IMO, is a bigger issue—the range on a 5W handheld may be pretty limited, but if there are public-safety types close enough that you can step on their comms, it probably means something is going on where you really don't want to be doing so. The FCC even released a bulletin or two about non-compliant radios that are set up to transmit out of the ranges they're approved for, and some of the more reputable sources (e.g. buytwowayradios.com) have stopped selling certain models as a result.

[anotherVTskibum]

Truck vs trailer is really dependent on where you are riding. If it is out of plowed staging areas with lots of room a trailer is fine. If you are up a narrow logging road you might find yourself having to disconnect a trailer and turn it around by hand, Can be a pain in deep snow or if you can’t find a flat spot. Then there is the whole trying to back it down the road when it turns out you can’t get it up that last steep hill before the parking.

Also would suggest looking at Arctic Cat M sleds if you need to stay early and cheap. Fuel injected and the motors are very reliable.

I'd second that comment on trailer vs truck. Keep in mind that loading a sled into a truck can be interesting, especially if you're not 100% comfortable finding the clutch engagement point; search YouTube for sled loading fails for examples.

I'd also second the "putting a beater sled in a beater truck is a great way to become a mechanic" sentiment. I'd argue that you should be comfortable doing at least basic troubleshooting and mechanical tasks on a sled before heading into the backcountry (and it wouldn't hurt to download the PDF of the service manual to your phone), because the amount of ground you can cover on a sled makes it very easy to turn a mechanical issue into a long skin at best and a life-safety issue at worst. If you can, ride with folks who can help you learn the ins and outs until you can handle minor mechanical issues, jerry-rig fixes when you run into a solid object, etc., and for best results, never go anywhere without at least two sleds. An Audi wagon seems like it should be capable of towing a two-sled trailer (assuming a good, lightweight trailer and a pair of mountain sleds), although you might be near the specs at that point. I used my XTerra ('00 3.3L V6) as a tow rig, and while it wasn't necessarily pleasant, it worked just fine as long as I was willing to go slow. I don't see a relatively heavy (and much higher-powered) wagon being substantially worse.

I had a 2007 M8 that took two season of trying to troubleshoot before I think I solved an intermittent running issue (not 100% sure because I sold it when I moved, but it had run fine the last few times out). Fortunately, I was able to tow it out with the other sled both times I was 5+ miles from the truck, but the 08 M8 I bought at the same time was 100% reliable (had to swap a belt once and deal with a broken A-arm on the first outing...but the A-arm was 100% pilot error).

[cmcrawfo]

Out of curiosity, what are the "road frequencies"? The stuff I come up with Googling that turns up references to license-required bands (e.g. this, this and this) all mentions requiring licensing and that "The use of amateur, marine or user programmable radios are not permitted."

With that said, as long as you're not stepping on someone using those frequencies for road management (as intended), I'd agree that seems like a fairly reasonable place to be and that a 5W handheld in the backcountry isn't likely to be stepping on much. If you know what you're doing, there are probably a lot of frequencies you can get away with using at that power level without pissing anyone off or actively interfering with licensed users, but if you don't want to geek out on the radio stuff enough to understand how to avoid interfering, staying away from licensed bands is a good idea. GMRS seems to be limited to 2W in Canada (and the UV-5R isn't technically legal for GMRS use anywhere, given a lack of type acceptance), but you're much less likely to be stepping on public-safety use and should be able to interoperate with the BCA radios if anyone in your party has them.

At least in the U.S., there have been reports of Chinese radios from eBay and Amazon showing up preprogrammed with frequencies that overlap with Part 90 frequencies assigned to businesses and/or public-safety agencies. That, IMO, is a bigger issue—the range on a 5W handheld may be pretty limited, but if there are public-safety types close enough that you can step on their comms, it probably means something is going on where you really don't want to be doing so. The FCC even released a bulletin or two about non-compliant radios that are set up to transmit out of the ranges they're approved for, and some of the more reputable sources (e.g. buytwowayradios.com) have stopped selling certain models as a result.

99% of regular radio users are not licensed. There is no enforcement. The only time licensing is a question is when you are actually applying for spectrum. The programable handhelds are also not allowed by the sane unenforced regulation, yet they are what most recreationalist use.

Also, he asking asking about Canada. I am sure you yanks are regulated and enforced beyond belief, after all, that’s what freedoms means eh.

Out of curiosity Do you yell at kids to get off your lawn regularly?

At the end of the day, everyone is safer with a radio. And only more poor with a license.

If the government really had concerns, the would regulate how these devices are sold and programmed, as it stands I can walk in to a shop and buy an 8w programmable handheld off the shelf, and get a shop to program all frequencies for 20$.

If no one cares about or enforces a licensing requirement, it’s not a requirement. Op can save his money for better sled or truck.

To the Op. if you do get a boafang, I can get it programmed for you with the RR frequencies and all the local repeaters and heli ops. Just let me know.

[pano-dude]

My crew all have Garmin rhino setups.

I wish there a radio that combined an inreach, rhino and camera.

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[anotherVTskibum]

99% of regular radio users are not licensed. There is no enforcement. The only time licensing is a question is when you are actually applying for spectrum. The programable handhelds are also not allowed by the sane unenforced regulation, yet they are what most recreationalist use.

Also, he asking asking about Canada. I am sure you yanks are regulated and enforced beyond belief, after all, that’s what freedoms means eh.

Out of curiosity Do you yell at kids to get off your lawn regularly?

At the end of the day, everyone is safer with a radio. And only more poor with a license.

If the government really had concerns, the would regulate how these devices are sold and programmed, as it stands I can walk in to a shop and buy an 8w programmable handheld off the shelf, and get a shop to program all frequencies for 20$.

If no one cares about or enforces a licensing requirement, it’s not a requirement. Op can save his money for better sled or truck.

To the Op. if you do get a boafang, I can get it programmed for you with the RR frequencies and all the local repeaters and heli ops. Just let me know.

It's kinda like speeding—doing 10 MPH over (that's 16 KPH for you) on a rural, two-lane road in the middle of nowhere probably isn't a big deal as long as you can control your vehicle, keep it in your lane, and don't have a moose step out in front of you. Doing 10 MPH over through a crowded downtown is another story entirely. Understanding the difference is important, and it's easy not to with the frequency-agile radios.

Putting aside the lack of enforcement—and I get it, the Baofeng and other cheap Chinese radios provide compelling features at a pricepoint you can't get from the bigger-name radios—there have been reports of those radios coming preprogrammed with frequencies that overlap those used by public-safety agencies and licensed business users. They are a powerful tool, but understanding both the rules, the logic behind the rules, and what problems can be created by not following the rules is important if you're going to ignore the rules without being the dipshit that causes problems for everyone. Unless you're stepping on public safety or legit ham ops, I don't think you'd see any enforcement at all in the U.S. (most businesses aren't going to have the resources to track you down, and the FCC doesn't seem to care most of the time). At least in the U.S., there have been moves recently to enforce import restrictions on non-compliant radios (c.f. https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-18-980A1.pdf), which I think is probably a result of the cheap radios impacting the bottom lines of Motorola and other big players, but I don't expect anyone to show up at my house just because I have a UV-5R sitting on the desk. If the local ski club switched from renting 40 Motorolas each winter to just buying Baofengs (at lower cost), I wouldn't be too surprised if the distributor poked the FCC to investigate.

[adrenalated]

It was mentioned but apparently needs to be reiterated - the laws regarding radios, and enforcement, are different in USA vs. Canada.

I've used both Baofengs and BCAs extensively. I was all about the Baofengs initially but the more I used them, the more I've decided they suck. The handsets are awful, you need to tape the plug in to keep it secure, if it wiggles the tiniest bit it stops working. And they have a pretty high chance of dying after a year or two. The programming is easy, but some radios won't work with others even when programmed with the exact same program (they might receive but not transmit, for example). We had a fleet of ~15 Baofengs and 3-4 would consistently shit the bed at any given time.

The BCA radios are expensive, but they just work. Only issue I've ever had is the handset connector can come undone (but it's much more secure than the Baofengs) and that issue is completely fixed on the forthcoming new model. They are not as powerful as the Baofengs but they more than make up for it in reliability.

[skibum193]

We just picked up a 2018 Ski Doo Summit XP 165 for sled accessed filming this year, very stoked! Collective thoughts on a skid plate - necessary and helpful, or one of those things that doesn't really do much?

[John_B]

No advice on skid plate but I just have to gloat that both sleds started after a summer of sitting. Carry on.

[Mannix]

We just picked up a 2018 Ski Doo Summit XP 165 for sled accessed filming this year, very stoked! Collective thoughts on a skid plate - necessary and helpful, or one of those things that doesn't really do much?

I've got one on my XM, might help keep the a-arms out of the snow when it is really deep, might offer some protection, but I've not really bashed it into anything, and I'd think if something bashed into it, you might not get over it anyway. Not sure. Seemed like a good idea, though, so I did it, more to help reduce deep snow drag.

The 18 g4s got extra bracing and whatnot for that cast bulkhead, they seem to break with less frequency than the first year of g4s (there were knuckleheads talking about class action lawsuits....um, come on, dude....but a lot did break), I'd probably put one on a g4 for that reason alone - the bulkhead is cast and looks porous and fragile.

IME, though, if you're really just using the sled to move skiers and polaroids around, the sled will lead a relatively easy life, compared to the rooping sledneck types.


Iain

[Wapow]

Doo's OEM skid plates, provide no real performance advantage and only deliver cosmetic underside protection. You don't need it. You can get an aftermarket carbon fiber skid plate that is designed to provide serious bash protection, but it costs about a grand. You probably don't need it. If you want to add valuable additional protection to a G4, install this brace kit on the suspension module: http://www.gripnripracing.com/index....roller=product. You probably don't need it if you can resist the temptation to carve and sidehill in low snow conditions. Skidoo chassis are pretty durable and they'll hold up to bashing bumps and even huge hucks, but if you tag a rock doing a donut in a meadow of pow, it will cost you. You've been warned!

[skibum193]

Appreciate the last few responses, thanks guys! We will be doubling a decent amount, but pretty mellow on the sled necking side of things. Didn't seem like the OEM one was super solid, so will probably skip it for now. With a $500 insurance deductible going for a $1000 ski plate doesn't quite pencil other than time lost on the machine if we tag a big rock.