Maggot snowmobile thread

[North]

My 2017 Mountain Cat doesn't overheat any easier than the other sleds in my group. Is it overheating when towing? Tandeming? I don't do either of those things very often.

Once I learned how to chainsaw the track through firm snow overheating issues haven't really been a thing anymore. My friends and I are typically pulling off the trail to cool sleds at roughly the same time, so maybe there is something wrong with your cat. Air in the cooling system?

[heckacali]

In my expert opinion, The answer is a new turbo 850

[Foggy_Goggles]

I had a m8000 that vintage. Cooled mine relative to other mtn sleds. What North said. Are we talking typical spring overheating of a rock hard trail? Because that is normal. And not all scratchers are created equal.

And for that $ 2-3k , don't get rid of a runner to buy something with unknown history.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[Z]

I had a m8000 that vintage. Cooled mine relative to other mtn sleds. What North said. Are we talking typical spring overheating of a rock hard trail? Because that is normal. And not all scratchers are created equal.

And for that $ 2-3k , don't get rid of a runner to buy something with unknown history.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

Totally agree here. Different scratchers are an idea...

These situations are riding 1 per sled, sometimes typical spring, but in those cases also the ski-doo just outperforms as well as packed winter trails...

[skibrd]

In my expert opinion, The answer is a new turbo 850

Corrrct


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[CallMeAl]

Question for anyone who might have related experience...

The advice you got is correct- there is probably nothing wrong with your sled, it just doesn't cool as efficiently as others that have a heat exchanger in the rear. You should burp the coolant system yourself to be safe, but I doubt you have air in the system, assuming you trust the dealer who just checked it.

If you are using cable-style scratchers, don't. They are nice because they don't break when you forget to put them up and then reverse or load it, but they just don't work as well as a simple StaCool style scratcher.

If that isn't the issue, you can always just add a tunnel heat exchanger to this sled. It's been a while since I dove into the subject, but I believe there is an OEM AC part from their trail/crossover sleds that share the Proclimb chassis that is pretty straightforward for someone with a little mechanical know-how to plumb/rivet in. The Limited M models might have had them too. This will 100% solve your problem, but like everything snowmobile related, probably won't be cheap if you are hiring the work out.

Problem aside, if you are otherwise happy with the way this sled rides, I'd just keep it and ride the shit out of it. That year M has the most powerful and reliable 800cc motor ever put into a snowmobile. It makes like 5 less HP than a modern 850 and can go well over 3k miles between top ends (as long as you keep it cool). They aren't picky about fuel or oil if you find yourself somewhere with limited options.

They're just a little heavier and considerably less nimble than the other brands' 2016+ offerings, which makes them less desirable on the used market but great for skiing.

[Yukonrider]

Long or short snowflap? Longer snowflap will kick more snow into the heat exchanger. 3" track will also run hotter, scratchers help, make sure they're really biting into the snow.

[Huskier]

I found a sled. This seems like an...ok deal? Has all the stuff that I would end up needing to buy...
https://spokane.craigslist.org/snw/d...797338330.html

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[Shredhead]

I don't know the market. But that seems high for a 4-5 year old sled.

[Wapow]

Not a great deal, but maybe you can negotiate down a bit. That sled isn't great for beginners either. Recommend you get a Doo for your first sled. If it turns out you want to lean into 'necking, then swap out for a Poo. Late model Doos have a bunch of gimmicks built in to make the sled way easier to handle, which is mainly for beginners and long time riders who suck at sledding, like the majority of my ski partners.

[Foggy_Goggles]

More than the years is the chassis. The latest Polaris (Matryx) came out in 22, There is always a step down in value to the older platform. And many people don't like to buy/own the first year of a new design.

I'm not sure I buy into all that "A Poo is a higher performing machine" stuff. Seems a bit Calvin pissing on a Ford. Besides T Motion what other "gimmicks" are you talking about.

Many people find Doos easier to ride but I don't think it is that big of a deal. My friends are pretty much 50/50 and we all go the same places and do the same shit.

[Wapow]

Doo has Flex edge track, Tmotion, layback steering post, different spindle geometry, steeper approach angle on the front of the track, and depending on the model. slightly curved skid rails. All of these features make them easier to ride generally and much easier handling when riding packed snow "flat" (not on edge), especially sitting down (like beginners do). It's also true that Doos work just about as well as Poos in good conditions, it's sidehilling in really tough conditions where the Poo is better. And if you are a hardcore sledder, you will spend a lot time doing "no fall" sidehills.

[Foggy_Goggles]

And now Polaris has Khaos and Ski Doo has Expert and Freeride so the the lines get even more blurry.

But here is the scoop, a good 90% of riders aren't as good as they think they are. The entire industry is blatant consumerism at its finest. I mean...wraps? Come on. Thats like the adult equivalent of a bedazzled Trapper Keeper for what $750? So of all the things I'd say maybe focus on...

the rider - be fit, health and practice

newer platform - sled improvement in rideability is still increasing rapidly. For example, a Gen 4 is stupid capable...until you ride a Gen 5

Clutching - understand belt tension, your clickers (doo) and pulling your RPMs. A big part of magic is managing clutch engagement.

Suspension Set Up - many people ride their front shocks way to stiff, imo. Understanding the the relationship between the front and rear track shock.

Low bars rule

Sleds are amazing satisfying because it fit the model of "find something really hard and try to be good at it". Plus you get to play in the wood with your homies, laugh at each other, help each other out, get it all back to the truck before dark, be 10/10 tired and so on.

Be around snowmobilers long enough and you'll realize that most of them are the skiing equivelant of "4 runs and they are in the bar on a powder day".

[Yukonrider]

Chassis of similar years (technically generations) are all but equal. An Axys and a Gen 4 will be very similar, neither stands out as easier. It mostly will come down to preference; if you've always ridden a Doo, Polaris and Arctic Cat will feel very weird and vice versa.

10,500 for an Axys is too much.

If you have 10,500 to spend you can find a Matryx or Gen 5. Those chassis are the next generation, and will ride better, have low miles, and maybe even a warranty.

My PERSONAL suggestion is to not get a Matryx unless its under warranty they have some overall reliability issues, but man that chassis is so freaking good. That said I'm getting a gen 5 this go around and I'm just going to tough out the learning curve coming from a Cat.

[North]

It's all been covered but I'm adding because sled talk gets me psyched to ride.

Doo - I agree with Wapow's description. Gen 4 easiest to ride track flat (nothing wrong with that, and I prefer that ease for tandeming). I've found them more responsive to foot input than Cat. I get more washout sidehilling on Doos. I didn't notice a big difference between G4 & G5 Doo but I haven't ridden the G5 much.

Cat - Responds to steering input from the bars more than Doo. Not as happy track flat, wants to be on edge. Holds edge better for me when sidehilling. When doo friends ride mine, they tip it too far over and fall off the first few times they try to get on edge.

Polaris - Haven't ridden one in ages. Most say the steering feel is more similar to cat than doo (more tippy, but predictable once edge).

IMO anything from 2016 and newer has plenty of capability. Newest is typically bestest, but firmly wizard not the wand territory once you get into those model years.

[Huskier]

Follow-up question: factory warranties and extended warranties? It seems like 1 year is standard and you can pay for another, but it also seems like it'd be hard to ride enough to make it pencil out financially compared to a used sled? Like what is prone to breaking out of the gate that would actually be covered by warranty?

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[Foggy_Goggles]

Ha...well the manufacturers don't actually know because we are the beta testers.

Motors, clutches and electronics is probably the answer.

Like everything, we just try and balance cost of ownership and fun.

Factor in how much you enjoy being a mechanic.

I kinda have a feeling that if you can fund it, buying one of the sub 1k miles, sub $10k price Gen5 and extending the warranty could be a smart play.

Or try and buy the best 6k Gen4

At some point [insert your number of miles 1.5 to 3k], you start running into clutch rebuilds, top ends, new tracks, hyfax, carbides, clapped out shocks and so on.

But not all miles are created equal, some sleds are babied, some are neglected and some are riden hard but maintained (mine).

So you roll the dice and try to not light too much money on fire.

And where I live, I'd say damage from hitting shit costs way more than mechanicals.

And I'm not anti Polaris I just know less about them.

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[Yukonrider]

Foggy nailed it.

If you're sub 2k or even 3k miles on a gen 5 you don't really need a warranty. Matryx will need a warranty its whole life, just look at the number of low miles sleds with "Brand new motor!".

Different sleds and different years have their quirks, just like an auto nothing needs a warranty until its blown up and you're on the hook for a new engine.

Sleds tend to be fairly binary, they either work, or its really obvious why they don't work.


This sounds like your first sled? My recommendation would be to get something less expensive, ride the piss out of it for two years then trade into something nice. If you're scared to break it, you won't be riding hard enough. I'd be a lot more pissed if I threw a brand new Matryx boost into a tree than a 2018 summit with 3k miles I got for 4k.

[Huskier]

https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/s...791204590.html

I think this might be my beast. I'm gonna go check it out next w/e. Awkward question: How do you test drive it with no snow? And if you can't what should I be looking for?

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[Jason4]

Buying any sled is a lot of trust and hope but a good inspection can build a bit of confidence. Check to see that everything that is supposed to be straight is, look down the corner creases in the tunnel to make sure there aren’t any kinks, check the rails on the skid to make sure it’s straight (or that if it kicks up at the rear end it’s intended), check the bumpers for signs of damage that would indicate collisions (although that one is admittedly already rebuilt). After you’ve looked over all that stuff check the suspension and everything else for symmetry. You shouldn’t see anything sitting crooked and the skis should be in the same position when you look down from the top. Check the suspension module and engine module as well as you can see them for cracks in the cast aluminum.

As far as checking the running condition, I always prefer to see how a sled starts cold. The colder they are the harder they usually are to start but that sled should start on the first pull if you get a good pull. My G4 skidoo pulls a lot stiffer than the previous XP that was pretty well used and some people have a hard time starting them when they are cold until they figure out a good technique. Get it started and let it warm up to ~2 or 3 bars on the temp gage. While you’re waiting check the headlights/high beam, check the hand/thumb warmer to make sure they heat up. You can bump the throttle just to check the response and to make sure it does have any rev hang. Check the tunnel just behind the fuel tank to make sure it’s getting a little warmer. See if the fuel gage matches the actual level, these gages are mostly inaccurate but it’s nice to know.

After the sled has a little heat in it hit the kill switch and then restart it on the Shot button. You’ll have to press and hold it for ~3-5 seconds before you get any reaction, this is normal. Once it’s running again wait a few seconds and then hit the Shot button again, the engine should stop and then restart and you’ll get a beeping noise that indicates it is in reverse. Kill the engine by pulling the key off the post to make sure the tether works the way it’s supposed to. Restart it one more time with the pull cord just to see how it feels warm vs stone cold. If you have some room you can bump it forward and backwards just a bit to make sure the clutch works as expected.

Pop both side plastics, check for fluid level, signs of any leaks, and general cleanliness. Check the clutch surfaces to make sure they are reasonably clean. Turn the secondary clutch (the top one) to feel how much play there is in the final drive chain. There should be a little bit of free play but not very much. Check to make sure you get the clutch/belt removal tool and the suspension wrench. Ideally you would get an extra belt in good condition. You can negotiate on the oil level, that stuff is expensive!

[Foggy_Goggles]

Seems like as good a place to as as any...I looking for a low miles 165 NA Gen 5 Edge or X. But my subborn ass will not Facebook. Can you check Mountain Sledder Swap Meet and Marketplace? I'll own you something. I can get a brand new 24 Edge for $14k (+$750 tax) so I'm thinking I wouldn't pay more than about $12k for used.

Thank ya'll

[Yukonrider]

Seems like as good a place to as as any...I looking for a low miles 165 NA Gen 5 Edge or X. But my subborn ass will not Facebook. Can you check Mountain Sledder Swap Meet and Marketplace? I'll own you something. I can get a brand new 24 Edge for $14k (+$750 tax) so I'm thinking I wouldn't pay more than about $12k for used.

Thank ya'll

What's low miles? I've been seeing NAs in the 9s around Salt Lake, but am looking for a turbo so haven't paid much attention to the NAs

[Foggy_Goggles]

1k or less

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

[Yukonrider]

1k or less

Sent from my Turbo 850 Flatbrimed Highhorse

I stand corrected, looks like 165 NAs fetch a premium.

Found 2 in a quick scan, both still in break in, both Edges, one for 11500, one for 12k. There's one in Paonia CO for 9500 at a dealer with 1k miles, but who knows what fees they'll throw in.

I'll take a closer look this evening

[Cruiser]

Nice early season trail ride this morning. I love the smell of 2 stroke