WA college assistance, please.

[basom]

why don't you give it a try.
you can already weld, you obviously have the technical skills.

study up on some artists to get some inspiration.

this is my boy B West and one of his:

http://www.lclark.edu/faculty/bwest/objects/west.jpg

another example:

http://www.commnewspapers.net/images/stories/SASE.gif

lots of his design and ideas come from forms he observes in nature. i.e. glacial formations and rock formations.

[CantDog]

Those are sweet. I'm a big richard serra fan, simple and beautiful. We've got one of his works on campus, but its not none of the big monoliths or curved walls he does a lot of.

http://www.fotodesignliedtke.de/foto.../serra-4-k.jpg
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/p...ages/serra.jpg

what we've got: http://www.colby.edu/museum/images/serra.456.low.jpg

We figured out in a chemistry class that if those blocks acted as voltaic cells, they could power the campus for a week.

[basom]

yup Serra's the shit. conceptually amazing. bending that size a gauge steel is hard to imagine.

i also like David Smith alot, you can view a bunch of his stuff at stormking.

DS:
http://www.guggenheimcollection.org/.../146B_2_md.jpg

[iceman]

Base, maybe my brother could help you get some studio space at Harvard somewhere, should I ask him? I dunno if you remember, but he works at the Peabody, and he's another one of you artsy types, Mass. College of Art then Museum School/Tufts program.

Cool pics.

[CantDog]

Definately, some of his stuff is at the Hirschorn here in town: http://hirshhorn.si.edu/images/colle...igh/72.268.jpg


Sol LeWitt does some sweet stuff too, although usually too much concrete for my tastes.



Oh yeah, and this website is awesome:

http://www.artcyclopedia.com

[Viva]

Originally posted by gramps
As well as working in a research lab part time both semesters.

Gramps, who were you working with?

Max, I can't say anything about the quality of undergraduate education at Utah, but, from a research standpoint, the life science faculty there is pretty damn good (I even interviewed there for grad. school). If your plans are for a premed-type or bio major, I think you'll find the academic environment there at least acceptable.

[basom]

Originally posted by iceman
Base, maybe my brother could help you get some studio space at Harvard somewhere, should I ask him? I dunno if you remember, but he works at the Peabody, and he's another one of you artsy types, Mass. College of Art then Museum School/Tufts program.

that would be berry cool, but you know, no sweat if your 'dark horse' rep doesnt bring enough clout for him to go out of his way for your internet skier buddy.

the big problem with metal sculpture is that you end up with a lot huge, heavy, possibly horrificly ugly pieces of trash, with no way to move them or dispose of them. its hard to give the shit away.

[Buster Highmen]

Does the name Kelly or Kelley mean anything in metal sculpture anymore? I think that was the resident sculptor at Reed when I was there and I really enjoyed taking his class. I can't remember his name...

[basom]

doesn't ring a bell. however, my bell is located pretty far out of reach.

i was also in the area doing the school thing a lot more recently than you, so maybe he had moved on. but i couldnt tell you any of the names of any of the professors at reed. everytime i was there i had a lot of chemistry experiments going on inside my head.

[Buster Highmen]

Found it: Lee Kelly. Did the Oakland Coliseum Gate and a bunch of other big installations with works at the Salishan and Reed.

Yeah, a great chem department, eh? Did they still cook up bromo?

[basom]

honestly i have no idea what they fed me.

i was candyflipping when i got there, the rest of the night has been stored somewhere in my sub concious. glimses of bright lights, naked breasts, loss of control, strange powders. somewhere in there is the great american novel condensed into four or five hours.

[CantDog]

I think I've made the decision for Max:


marlboro college

[gramps]

Oh man, Marlboro college. To think I missed that opportunity. I could have double majored in Underwater basket weaving and queer studies and all for the low price of $33,000 a year! Not to say they don't have real majors too, but I have a hard time imagining getting a quality, say, Biology program when the entire major probably has as many people in it as my high school Biology class. Then again I'm used to big schools.

Max, I visited Regis in Denver when I was college hunting. It's a Jesuit school, which is neat, they're known for quality education. The campus is nice too, they're quite well funded by the Coors family . It was the only small school I looked at (~3,000) students, it was strange for me to see this whole campus that had the same number of students as my high school. They do have buses to the slopes on the weekends if I remember right. It was pricey though, just like any private school. I didn't feel like I wanted a closed, tight knit school like that, so I never applied there.

[optics]

Since the sculpture sub-thread has evolved...

She's not much into metal (that I've seen), but Rachel Whiteread knocks me on my ass every time.

[CantDog]

Originally posted by gramps
but I have a hard time imagining getting a quality, say, Biology program when the entire major probably has as many people in it as my high school Biology class. Then again I'm used to big schools.

Thats exactly why you do get a great education. The teacher to student ratio at Marlboro is something ridiculous like 1:4. So you are saying that because there is less teacher student involvement your education is better? Using that reason instead of hiring more teachers for high schools and elementary schools, we should fire them.


Skiing at sugarbush this year I met a guy who graduated from marlboro. He said it was incredible, and it was even smaller when he was there. His description of it made me think about greek philosphers passing down their knowledge to a select few. I dont know about you guys, but that sounds like a pretty cool way to spend 4 years learning. The guy was also on the Jackson Hole Air Force, so he was double bad ass.

[gramps]

No man, I'm thinking more that Biology is a huge field, especially at the college level. I've taken or need to take Evolution & Diversity, Neurobiology, Genetics, Cell Biology, Physiology, Anatomy ( I'm leaving a bunch out I'm sure), Organic Gardening, not to mention physics as well as Organic and Bio Chem. The people that have taught each of those classes is an expert and has made a career in that specialty. This is possible because of the size of the school. I can't imagine getting the same depth of knowledge from a faculty the size of say, Marlboro college. I mean, look at the huge list of majors they have. Their biology department has got to be miniscule. Obviously, the faculty/student ratio is a lot better, but when there's not the facilities or depth of knowledge, who's to say where you really learn the most or have the most choices as far as focusing on a certain area. At a little school I could see getting stuck having to focus on whatever specialty the few Biology faculty members are into.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by gramps
No man, I'm thinking more that Biology is a huge field, especially at the college level. I've taken or need to take Evolution & Diversity, Neurobiology, Genetics, Cell Biology, Physiology, Anatomy ( I'm leaving a bunch out I'm sure), Organic Gardening, not to mention physics as well as Organic and Bio Chem. The people that have taught each of those classes is an expert and has made a career in that specialty. This is possible because of the size of the school. I can't imagine getting the same depth of knowledge from a faculty the size of say, Marlboro college. I mean, look at the huge list of majors they have. Their biology department has got to be miniscule. Obviously, the faculty/student ratio is a lot better, but when there's not the facilities or depth of knowledge, who's to say where you really learn the most or have the most choices as far as focusing on a certain area. At a little school I could see getting stuck having to focus on whatever specialty the few Biology faculty members are into.

Interesting perspective. I guess it depends on your objectives. For a purely academic point of view, smaller schools produce a higher percentage of Ph.Ds.
The issue I saw at larger schools is that the faculty is more absorbed by research and grad students and the undergrads did not get the level of attention they could have, even in the honors classes.

[gramps]

Sure, private schools produce a higher percentage of PHDs. You get a larger cross section of people with a greater variety of goals in a large school, even within a single major, and a lot of those people's goals don't include PHDs.

I'm just trying to present my Western U.S. mentality here, which is pretty different than the East coast way of thinking about college. I think flagship state schools present most of the same opportunities as private schools, as well as offering things private schools don't. In addition, Western public schools are actively looking to attract bright students with scholarships that make college tuition free. I know I can get a quality education at ASU, U of A, or U of U just to name a few. Yeah admission requirements are much lower at state schools, but the whole thing is to get into a challenging major and do well at it, and you quickly find yourself on a more competitive level than most of the student body. I kind of wince when I sense that people are thinking they need to go to a $30,000 a year private school to get a good education and succeed in life, cause it just ain't true.


Yeah, you give up that East coast ideal of a liberal arts foundation and a tight knit campus community, but I think that whole thing is a little elitist. I mean for a lot of these people mommy and daddy are shelling out the funds, and then the less fortunate saps drive themselves into debt for an undergraduate degree cause they think they need to go to the fancy school too. It doesn't have to be like that. I'm lucky, my folks did set some money aside for me. It would have covered about a year of private school expenses, but it's gonna last me all four at the U.

Anyway, it seems like Max is straddling the line between public and private, between free and $100,000s and I just wanted to make sure I got my belief across about the value of public Universities, especially since he's gonna be spending plenty of money if he goes on to Med School.

[CantDog]

Its an interesting perspective for sure. At UVA my friend took tibetan language classes, they dont offer tibetan at Colby. But for pretty much everything else, there are equivalent classes. Also, for me at least, undergrad is about showing you what is out there, and then beginning to lead you down what ever path you choose. When you want to study the organic synthesis of alkyl halides, and only that, thats where graduate school and doctorate programs step in.


And the elistist stuff is a bunch of crap. First of all, if you think of all the liberal arts schools in new england, the total enrollment of all of them equals the same of some of the big state schools. A place with 2000 kids doesnt represent the entire east coast school of.....school, i guess. Shit, I hadn't even heard of the place I was going until I started looking around after junior year. And nobody here needs to go to a fancy school. They pick the place they want to go, because thats where they want to go. So you go into debt(what I'm doing now bigtime). Apart from costing so much, the federal government does a pretty damn good job of giving you low interest rates and plenty of time to start paying the loans off. And its only money. There are tons of things that happened to me at school that far outweigh the cost of school, although those things might be intangible. Would I do it over again, even if it cost more? Absolutely. And I'll gladly try and give my kids the same opportunity(although at the rate costs are rising, I probably should already be saving for them).

[basom]

bottom line. people have different educational philosophys. some people know exactly what they want to do when they are 15, and then they follow through and do it. if you are that type of person, finding a specialized program suited to your interests is the way to go. that program could exist at a small or large school.
on the other hand you could be like me, and didn't know what the hell you were even thinking as a junior in HS, and wanted a school that provided a soild background in all of the humanities and sciences. and i liked the idea that everone had to explore all of these areas and i felt the student body would be made up of people with well rounded interests.
i liked that as a art major i would still be taking philosophy, logic, political science, ethnomusicology, physiscs, poetry, anthropology, east asian history, ect.
imo its not about the degree you get in undergrad, its about your personal growth during those formitive college years, and i believe a lot of that growth is fostered by the people surrounding you and interacting with you. its about the disscussions inbetween classes with your peers, its about being turned on to ideas and areas of thought you had no proior knowledge of. its about learning how you learn, and learning how to be successfull at whatever you put your mind to.
this may seem idealistic to some, or not worth the money. to some the experience is invaluable.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by gramps
Sure, private schools produce a higher percentage of PHDs.

Yup. The conclusion might be that the purely academic experience is better, hence so are the options for going on to grad school.

You get a larger cross section of people with a greater variety of goals in a large school, even within a single major, and a lot of those people's goals don't include PHDs.

Likely true. The social fabric has more variety at a large school.

I'm just trying to present my Western U.S. mentality here, which is pretty different than the East coast way of thinking about college.

I beg to differ. The big school preference is not a Western mentality. I'm not from the East Coast.

I think flagship state schools present most of the same opportunities as private schools, as well as offering things private schools don't.

See the first point.

In addition, Western public schools are actively looking to attract bright students with scholarships that make college tuition free. I know I can get a quality education at ASU, U of A, or U of U just to name a few. Yeah admission requirements are much lower at state schools, but the whole thing is to get into a challenging major and do well at it, and you quickly find yourself on a more competitive level than most of the student body. I kind of wince when I sense that people are thinking they need to go to a $30,000 a year private school to get a good education and succeed in life, cause it just ain't true.

Agreed. A large school will provide an adequate education.

As far as succeeding in life, that depends on your goals.

With regard to scholarships, the competition is tighter at private schools, but the scholarships are there.

But what I'm saying, both from personal experience and statistics is that if your goals are academic in general, including getting into top notch grad schools or med school, which exist only at a larger university, a smaller school can be a better option.

Yeah, you give up that East coast ideal of a liberal arts foundation and a tight knit campus community, but I think that whole thing is a little elitist. I mean for a lot of these people mommy and daddy are shelling out the funds, and then the less fortunate saps drive themselves into debt for an undergraduate degree cause they think they need to go to the fancy school too.

OK, it is elitist. And for a lot of the spaceout trustafarians raging around in nice cars and whatnot, it's obnoxious. But that's secondary to the opportunities provided.

As I've said, I've been to both types. Persoanlly I prefer the smaller.

It doesn't have to be like that. I'm lucky, my folks did set some money aside for me. It would have covered about a year of private school expenses, but it's gonna last me all four at the U.

Anyway, it seems like Max is straddling the line between public and private, between free and $100,000s and I just wanted to make sure I got my belief across about the value of public Universities, especially since he's gonna be spending plenty of money if he goes on to Med School.

Big schools are not exactly free, but your point is made regarding cost. If that's a factor in Max's decision making process, we can leave that up to him. He seems smart enough to figure that out.

[Max Gosey]

I'd just like to say that gramps's schedule is quite a cool one... I had no idea there was such thing as a ski class. I sorta fantasized once about teaching a ski history class or something, but that was definitely just a "wouldn't it be cool if..." hypothetical thing. Lasted about a week.

Anyway, it seems as if people here are concerned for my self-security in my decision of what I want to do in life. I'd like to think that I am much like my dad, who knew in 10th grade that he liked medicine, in 11th grade that he wanted to be a doctor, and in 12th that he wanted to be an orthopaedic surgeon (pretty much my exact path). I KNOW (not just believe) that I want to get a pretty good education, but the "deepest philosophies of all coursework"--what I understand to be the apparent advantage of smaller schools--are not as important to me. I just want a good background and to excel in what I do so that people considering me for med school see that I have what it takes to get through the rigors of becoming a doctor.

But I also want to be fully prepared in whatever ways are necessary for doing that. I'm wondering how much more knowledge I would gain by going to a small school. Would it make me a more knowledgeable pre-doctor? Right now I'm sort of in the stage (due largely to all this discussion) of comparing social aspects to academic aspects of college. I surely don't want to go to some place based SOLELY on academics, but they are going to be important.

One question about small schools: girls? Or does someone serious about academics not have time to get a little game on? I've done some thinking over the last few months about finding a cool chick or two to explore the world of women with... ya know, figure out what I like. That is an important aspect of the social world of college, and the potential lack thereof is a little alarming to me. Then again I have no idea whether this is a problem at small schools, or even if college is the time to worry about that sort of thing. But I guess you have to find a small school that IS your niche, as opposed to a big school that HAS your niche, assuming I wanted to go small, that is.

I REEEEALLY don't want to have to cancel my plans for skiing this year, but if it means I may open up more options to myself as far as my future, then I may just have to. Because skiing is now fighting information-gathering sessions for college .

Why the hell am I worried about decisions now though? I haven't even applied to these places! I guess I'm planning for planning. I get off on a whim and think too far ahead. Sorry for that.

But this really has helped me a lot. You guys have made me consider strongly options I never would have even thought about. Ever. So I guess now I'll just start filling out applications and seeing how lucky I get.

P.S. When do most colleges send out acceptance letters? It it a certain time of the year, or if you send yours in early will you know earlier than others?

[iceman]

Jesus save me.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by Max Gosey
But I also want to be fully prepared in whatever ways are necessary for doing that. I'm wondering how much more knowledge I would gain by going to a small school. Would it make me a more knowledgeable pre-doctor? Right now I'm sort of in the stage (due largely to all this discussion) of comparing social aspects to academic aspects of college. I surely don't want to go to some place based SOLELY on academics, but they are going to be important.

Hold on there pardner!!!!
That tain't the tonely thang bout them fancy undahwatah bahsket weavin libheral farts schools.

It depends on the community you're used to. Did you play a lot of mainstream sports in hs? Go to pep rallies? Homecoming? If you liked that stuff, a larger U may be the place for you or a more greek system place like Dartmouth or some Ivy League.

Reed has an great community of the unusual type. They have a ski cabin. They rent a camp on the Oregon coast for a weekend and have a big camp out. There's steelhead fishing trips with the bio dept, making beer with the math profs, juggling, unicyling and the notorious Chunk choppers (amalgam bike club).

I'b be surprise if a lot of smaller colleges didn't have a great community.

It just depends on the type of environment for which you're looking.

One question about small schools: girls? Or does someone serious about academics not have time to get a little game on? I've done some thinking over the last few months about finding a cool chick or two to explore the world of women with... ya know, figure out what I like. That is an important aspect of the social world of college, and the potential lack thereof is a little alarming to me. Then again I have no idea whether this is a problem at small schools, or even if college is the time to worry about that sort of thing. But I guess you have to find a small school that IS your niche, as opposed to a big school that HAS your niche, assuming I wanted to go small, that is.

Heh. I had a ___really___ good time in this regard. OK, as a frosh dood, you get squat. But as a sophmore, I had the best year with a lovely chestnut girl that was the first of several. They don't call 'em liberal for nothing.

I REEEEALLY don't want to have to cancel my plans for skiing this year, but if it means I may open up more options to myself as far as my future, then I may just have to. Because skiing is now fighting information-gathering sessions for college .

Do both on the same trip.

Why the hell am I worried about decisions now though? I haven't even applied to these places! I guess I'm planning for planning. I get off on a whim and think too far ahead. Sorry for that.

But this really has helped me a lot. You guys have made me consider strongly options I never would have even thought about. Ever. So I guess now I'll just start filling out applications and seeing how lucky I get.

P.S. When do most colleges send out acceptance letters? It it a certain time of the year, or if you send yours in early will you know earlier than others?

Usually May-June in myy experience.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by iceman
Jesus save me.

Jesus wasn't that thrifty. Or parsimonious.