WA college assistance, please.

[basom]

my two roomates go to harvard med school.

they both went to small liberal arts schools with tons of prof/student interaction, and small classes (wesleyan and havaford). i'm not saying you have to go to a small liberal arts school to get into harvard, but it seems lots of their classmates had similer college experiences.

they also think harvard is highly overrated.

as a liberal arts graduate i recomend a smaller school for everyone. although they are a lot more $$, and finacial aid is likely to be need based and not merit based (thank god for me, i had some crappy grades in H.S.)

[The AD]

Originally posted by slim
If I had a nickle for every smart and determined kid I knew in college that washed out of pre-med... I'd be skiing everyday rather than working.

Of the kids that do actually survive the pre-med program, it becomes even harder to actually get into medical school.

If Max seriously got a 34 on his ACT I don't think he'll have any problems with pre-med.

Max's comment about LSU being "13th grade." I'm guessing any large, state school will be the same for undergrad. Like Buster said about UW, count on large classes without a lot of access to your professors--at least for the first two years. If that bothers you, you should probably look elsewhere. Maybe it doesn't. I know it never did for me. I never had any desire to talk to my professors outside class. If your GPA and test scores are any indication you won't have any problems.

[CantDog]

I second Buster's recommendation for small liberal art schools. Some people need a big campus, but spending 4 years in a small close knit community definately has its advantages. Talking to some friends who took Gen Chem at UVA, they had over 400 kids in their class. I had 28 in mine. Shit, there are only 400 kids in my entire class. Even going from a school of 1600 to a school of 5000 I noticed a big difference. And if you live in New England, you cant ask for a more attractive place to go to school. Every season up there is gorgeous. The downside of a lib. arts education is the price, except for smaller state schools like William And Mary.

I think you should broaden your horizons some. You dismissed everything east of the rockies, and are really enervating the strength of your search. There are tons of choices out here, and plenty within an easy drive to good skiing. Also, as already discussed, you can get great pizza and cannoli. Out here, you've got the best cities in the world at your doorstep.

On the U of U note, you wouldnt feel weird, although you might have to dye your hair blonde to fit in. You'd feel weird if you were black and jewish. You'd feel even weirder if you were black and jewish at BYU.

And I'm guessing Max isnt a big poetry fan.

+1 for the first use of enervating?


edit because I see basom's post. My college experience has been absolutely incredible. Its more like camp than school. Not only do I get to study on the most gorgeous campus around but I'm surrounded with some incredible people. And at small lib. arts schools the teachers really will bend over backwards for you. They arent there to get research money, they are there because they enjoy teaching, and like student interaction. I can tell you at UW you probably won't go camping, fly-fishing, or get drinks at the pub with your professors, but at small schools its things like that that seem the norm. Plus, having only 7 other kids in each of your classes is a great thing. You feel like you are taking an active role in deciding the course of your education. My friends at big state schools have felt like they've just spent the last 4 years in a big lecture room listening to someone who doesnt know their name or care.

[slim]

Originally posted by The AD
If Max seriously got a 34 on his ACT I don't think he'll have any problems with pre-med.

What if he discovers weed or booze or gets a girlfriend and starts getting laid every night. I didn't say he wasn't smart enough.

College is hard Max. Be prepared. Being smart isn't enough.

[basom]

Originally posted by CantDog

+1 for the first use of enervating?

GOOOOAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL!

[The AD]

Originally posted by CantDog
I second Buster's recommendation for small liberal art schools. Some people need a big campus, but spending 4 years in a small close knit community definately has its advantages. Talking to some friends who took Gen Chem at UVA, they had over 400 kids in their class. I had 28 in mine.

Yeah, that's true for your freshman level chem or math kind of classes, but once you're taking the 300 and 400 level classes in your major you can count on much smaller class sizes. That was my experience in engineering at a 40,000 student state school, anyway. Typical class size was probably more like 30 for the higher level classes.

[CantDog]

Originally posted by The AD
Typical class size was probably more like 30 for the higher level classes.

Or under 10.

[LAN]

I graduated from PLU in 2002. It wasn't a shabby place to go, and there are plenty of companies in the Pac NW that look highly upon a degree from PLU. The nursing program sucked, but their pre-med classes are great, as are the profs. Second to UW, UW med school accepts the most candidates from PLU (when we're talking admissions from WA state).

If you're looking to go to med school, it's not necessarily the degree that the school is from (although that does factor in), but rather what interesting things that you've done alone the way (cancer research, medical missions, coming into medicine later in life and making it your 2nd career).

Someone mentioned Harvard med. Sure it's a good school, but no matter what, once you get out of med school, you're still the same scared, timid doctor as all of the other ones. A Harvard pin on the lapel of your lab coat is impressive for all of about 2 seconds. Just my 0.02.

One more thing - agreed with Buster on UW. You won't even get to talk with your profs unless you're taking summer courses. Otherwise, you're in classes of hundreds of people and your best hope for contact is with a TA. When you go to a smaller school, you get your profs phone numbers and they're more apt to connect with you (at least that was my experience at PLU and UW).

[basom]

Originally posted by LAN

Someone mentioned Harvard med. Sure it's a good school, but no matter what, once you get out of med school, you're still the same scared, timid doctor as all of the other ones. A Harvard pin on the lapel of your lab coat is impressive for all of about 2 seconds. Just my 0.02.

Originally posted by basom
my two roomates go to harvard med school.

they both went to small liberal arts schools with tons of prof/student interaction, and small classes (wesleyan and havaford). i'm not saying you have to go to a small liberal arts school to get into harvard, but it seems lots of their classmates had similer college experiences.

they also think harvard is highly overrated.

[LAN]

basom, those are just my experiences/opinions in working w/ Harvard Med School grads.

[optics]

My girl graduated from UW undergrad last year, loved that school to death. Had a very different experience from what Buster described, tons of interaction with the prof.s, and relatively small class sizes once you get past the lower level requisites.

Both my parents graduated from UW med., granted it was 20 years ago, but they loved it and would totally endorse it - except for the fact that they, along with most other MDs I talk to, wouldn't reccomend going into medicine with the current social/political environment.

[basom]

Originally posted by LAN
basom, those are just my experiences/opinions in working w/ Harvard Med School grads.

right. my post confirms that even curent students of the school find it to be overrated.

[The AD]

Originally posted by basom
right. my post confirms that even curent students of the school find it to be overrated.

They will probably think it's even more overrated when they have to payoff their $250K in student loans!

[basom]

Originally posted by The AD
They will probably think it's even more overrated when they have to payoff their $250K in student loans!

no shit. especially since both of them are really only interested in being docs for community outreach and trying to make a difference in the underclass healthcare scene. freaking super in dept activists. its something to live for, i suppose.

[Max Gosey]

Just to make my MD motivations clear... I am good at science. Damn good. I like science. I like it a lot. I took a First Responder course (the prerequisite to EMT) and got hooked on healthcare, seriously. I will be EMT-basic by the time I graduate high school. My dad is exactly what I want to be, so it seems to make sense. Not to mention that I had the highest grade in the First Responder class. Interest is probably the determining factor in whether or not a student puts out effort. I am PLENTY interested. I don't really have a back-up plan ('cept maybe architecture or... well... I just don't know what else I'd really be as good at...)

Just want to make clear that I will work first, then ski later (I'm gonna catch hell for this, and I hate to hear myself say it.) I'll be happy with 25 days a year if I can get it. Plus holidays .

That said... I wanted to ask you, Buster, about UW's "lack of interaction." Does that include the honors college as well? I know the basic classes--Freshman English, Bio I, etc.--are all taught in huge numbers, but wouldn't an honors experience make a significant difference in class size? That was an issue at Boulder, and the tour guide--a student--and the counselor both highly recommended an honors college.

But I do find it interesting what you say about liberal arts in general. At first I was completely closed-minded to small communities. But since I have been in such a tight knit with my friends the past couple years, I feel now that I could probably live with a smaller school if I had to. I'd just have to meet the right people among that small group.

P.S. I hate traffic. The less urban driving, the better.

Now continue discussing what you know. This is all EXCELLENT shit here, guys.

Oh, and any input on Colorado College (not Colorado Mountain College)? Distance to resorts, and which ones?

P.P.S. Do I get +1 for "disapprobation"?

[basom]

CC is a really very good liberal arts school.

everyone i know who went there raves about it. look into their block plan, super intensive. if it fits your learning style its the bomb. my high school had the same structure, i loved it.

it was high on my list (the highest for awhile) but in the end they waitlisted me and said if i got in i'd get little finacial aid, so i went to portland instead.

[Max Gosey]

Basom, what were your stats like? Just curious as to where I might stand (with CC)...

[slim]

Max you might want to look at UC Berkeley or Stanford as well. 3+ hours to Tahoe... you could easily catch a lift with Punani every weekend up to Kirkwood.

[phUnk]

Originally posted by slim
you could easily catch a lift with Punani every weekend up to Kirkwood.

He's got tons of room in his truck.

[basom]

we didn't keep 'stats' at my H.S. which was one of my problems with the admissions at CC. i fit outside of their 'box'. my high school was a combination of evergreen state and CC.

i took the sat, those scores were right in the median for cc. if you want to know about scores and schools you should get yourself a copy of the latest us news & world report

[Max Gosey]

I had considered Stanford, but it's hard as hell and just seemed too far from snow. But I might as well apply. It might be fun.

Collegeboard.com has good stuff on that, huh basom?

And why are you promoting Punani as a shuttle, phUnk? Trying to keep me out of Utah?

[The AD]

Originally posted by Max Gosey
I had considered Stanford, but it's hard as hell and just seemed too far from snow. But I might as well apply. It might be fun.

Hell yes! Have you ever been to the Bay Area?

With your stats you should be able to get into Stanford. It's definitely worth a look Max.

[TheDingleberry]

Everything changes. If you build yourself up and try to live by a plan and then you do not accomplish your goals it will be very dissapointing.

Here's something for you to remember Max: you live only one life, make it your life and not someone elses. You only are young once and when you are young you can have a great time, get in alot of trouble, and participate in activites that are looked down upon by the elders of society.

Also everyone's plans change and the future can not be forecast. So do not speculate on what the future holds cause frankly buddy, are you sure you will be here tomorrow? Additionally what appeals to you about being a doctor? Is it the money and security, the research and development, or the fact that you are helping society? And what kind of doctor is your father?

Judging by your enthusiasm Max, you are fooling no one when you say I'll be happy with 25 days on the mountain per year. That is a lie if I have ever heard one.

Just one more question: Do you get all fired up and go post crazy on the forums over at webmd.com? Because we can all see the passion on this board about skiing and I just wondered if it existed in medical research too.

You asked about my religous upbringing earlier: Raised Episcopalian, a branch of Catholisim but not as strict. I do not practice any organized religon anymore. I find my guidance while skiing in the mountains, sufing in the ocean, or fishing in a river, among other places.

[Buster Highmen]

Originally posted by Max Gosey
That said... I wanted to ask you, Buster, about UW's "lack of interaction." Does that include the honors college as well? I know the basic classes--Freshman English, Bio I, etc.--are all taught in huge numbers, but wouldn't an honors experience make a significant difference in class size? That was an issue at Boulder, and the tour guide--a student--and the counselor both highly recommended an honors college.

But I do find it interesting what you say about liberal arts in general. At first I was completely closed-minded to small communities. But since I have been in such a tight knit with my friends the past couple years, I feel now that I could probably live with a smaller school if I had to. I'd just have to meet the right people among that small group.

P.S. I hate traffic. The less urban driving, the better.

Now continue discussing what you know. This is all EXCELLENT shit here, guys.

Oh, and any input on Colorado College (not Colorado Mountain College)? Distance to resorts, and which ones?

P.P.S. Do I get +1 for "disapprobation"?

My experience was limited to teaching math classes and talking with students in my sections. For science majors at the time (circa 1985) everyone had yto take intro bio, calc and physics classes. These classes are HUGE, some on the order of 400-600 students. Admittedly some of them were scorching hot.

But I digress.

The calc and linear algebra classes I taught were still large, over 300 students with many sections. The sections had 30-50 students in them, but a lot of times only 20-30 students showed up. I had a good rep (engrish is first langage), so I got students from other sections filtering in because the couldn't understand their TAs.

Anyway, the feedback I got from the students was that they hated their profs because they could never ask them questions and felt dismissed The feedback I got from Profs was that the undergrads were annoyances that got in the way of research and grant writing. I felt that much of the math department in particular presented formulae rather than real understanding of the underlying geometry and physics of the math being taught. I will never give UW money, especially when they have the football coaches making 6 times what their best profs do. U of O wasn't muc better in terms of size, but doesn't have the scholastic rep

So allow me to prattle on further. I went to a lot of schools: U Wisconsin as a snooty high school whiz kid (I peed in my pants often), then Reed, then U of Oregon, a quick stint at Cornell then MIT and then U.W. Reed and MIT stood out as the very best places where real learning was fun and sincere. None of the others came close. While its true that upper div classes at UWisc, UofO and UW were smaller, they were still larger than most of the intro classes at Reed.

If, as you indicate, you're going to school to go to school, then go to school first and ski second. Consider the very best, like Harvey Mudd, Reed, MIT and Stanford. Check out their stats.
For example, in terms of the percentage of students that go on to get Ph.Ds:
http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html

(You can blame clowns like me for the slide of Reed down to the third spot for overall PhD productivity: I quit my Ph.D. to stop being poor, live with a girl and have a life. It was first when I graduated).

I loved Reed, best place I've ever been, wildest, brightest group of weirdos anywhere. They have a ski cabin with a sauna. I still give them money. A lot of college is community, so find a good one.

[m1e448]

due visit the schools. You are going to get a different opinion from everyone. seeing that you are from LA you probably won't like U of U due to the fact that it is mostly a commuter school. When i went there, I didn't find the mormon factor to be bad at all. You will get a feel for the campus and if it fits you by visiting the place and when you visit you can talk to the chair of whatever it is you might be interested in to get a better idea of how their program runs. The other thing is that you shouldn't go to school close to a ski town if you are really serious about med school, Eight years of brutality and its easy to loose sight of things and say, "Fack it, its snowing, I'm going skiing." Being from LA you've never had that tempatation yet as far as i know. You gotta pick your prioities man.