Lowering onto an avalanche slope...what belay/rap system to use?

[neck beard]

NO ROPES!!!!!!!!111!

After the fact!!!!!!11!

[LightRanger]

10.2 is more than overkill in terms of strength... it's heavy as shit and bulky as well. Would you use a full 60m? Are you going to be leading? If so, then maybe, but you could still get by with a way skinnier line. If not, then something like this is appropriate: http://www.bdel.com/gear/rando.php. Or longer if, as DCNB said, you're going to make a bollard or need the extra length.

[ren]

Do yourself a favor and go to your local climbing gym and take a belay/repel lesson. There are so many ways you can lower yourself or be lowered into a slope. Different situations will require different techniques and equipment. Always remember...
#1- keep your system simple...grigri, reverso..i stay away from munter hitches as they will twist and kink the shit out of your rope, a back up prusik)
#2- keep yourself backed up!!!!
#3- use multiple anchor points (aka...at least two, three is always better)
It is better you go to a pro who can properly teach you various methods. Don't try to learn off the interweb. If you fall or have a system failure, its your life on the line

[LightRanger]

Do yourself a favor and go to your local climbing gym and take a belay/repel lesson. There are so many ways you can lower yourself or be lowered into a slope. Different situations will require different techniques and equipment. Always remember...
#1- keep your system simple...grigri, reverso..i stay away from munter hitches as they will twist and kink the shit out of your rope, a back up prusik)
#2- keep yourself backed up!!!!
#3- use multiple anchor points (aka...at least two, three is always better)
It is better you go to a pro who can properly teach you various methods. Don't try to learn off the interweb. If you fall or have a system failure, its your life on the line

Yeah, the guys at the local gym are definitely trustworthy when it comes to teaching how to build snow anchors. And I'm for sure taking a Gri Gri out next time I rap over a cornice. I mean, I know that they're rated for 8 mil rope, right? Reverso too, right? And aren't Munters always bad?

[ren]

You would be surprised how many of the local gym owners know how to build anchors in the most unique places. I would make sure they have a the acmg (guiding certificate first ) and are knowledgeable about building ice and snow anchors. Munters are not always "bad". They have their place but they do twist the shit out of your rope like I had mentioned and what does a reverso weigh? 50 grams....maybe, and can be used as a auto lock when seconding someone up. At $20 for a belay device that does all that, at that weight, and doesn't ruin your + $200 rope, my vote is for a petzl reverso.
A Petzl gri gri is also a good choice as they will accept 8-10.5 mm ropes and are auto locking, easy to feed and easy to belay on and anyone can be taught to use one properly and safely in no time at all.

[sfotex]

A Petzl gri gri is also a good choice as they will accept 8-10.5 mm ropes and are auto locking, easy to feed and easy to belay on and anyone can be taught to use one properly and safely in no time at all.

Wow, that is some shitty advice. A gri-gri + a icy/wet rope is asking for trouble. Plus they're rated only for 10-11mm ropes (http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=203).



"Man, I thought you always carry your Grigri and backup Grigri on those trad climbs. You can rap down on double ropes if you bring two.then if you bring another two, you can use them for backups instead of prusiks. I usually bring eight Grigris in case my partner forgets his set." -Poop*ghost

[LightRanger]

^^^Exactly.

Also, ren, Reversos are not appropriate for 8mm ropes, as I said. Petzl makes a device called the Reversino for skinny ropes.

Furthermore, maybe your local gym is different than the vast majority of gyms I've ever visited, but last I checked the guys chilling at the counter are not usually AMGA or UIAGM certified. The gym OWNER (as I see you changed your criterion) might be, but not your average cashier/belay lesson teacher. Guides are usually, I dunno, out guiding...

[AKturnanburn]

I put my sled in reverse and punch it at the top to bury the track with the back end facing the slope. Then I thred a 7mmX40m perlon thru the back bumper, and use an ATC to repel onto the slope where I cut it and jump on it and dig around alittle. If I feel OK than I just ski off the end of it and rip down.

Granted this is on very familiar slopes with lots of knowledge of recent activity, usually soon after a storm, just trying to get the new stuff to move.

[cmor]

I put my sled in reverse and punch it at the top to bury the track with the back end facing the slope. Then I thred a 7mmX40m perlon thru the back bumper, and use an ATC to repel onto the slope where I cut it and jump on it and dig around alittle. If I feel OK than I just ski off the end of it and rip down.

Granted this is on very familiar slopes with lots of knowledge of recent activity, usually soon after a storm, just trying to get the new stuff to move.

If you go this method just make sure your belay device can handle a 7mm rope, a lot won't provide sufficient friction. I would just go munter to save weight and simplify, best yet have you partner belay you down. Screwing around with a belay device in a slide would suck.

[gaijin]

Because I was such a jackass in my first failed attempt... I'll aim to be a bit more precise.

Why haven't you asked Mark yet?

* edit to add the following-

I just re-read this thread and discovered that you don't actually plan on skiing. Oops. My bad.

If you want to study avalanches, you should be studying bonding. If you want to study bonding, you should be studying weather. If you want to be studying weather, you should be researching other schools and finding other mentors. Not that you should stop asking Mark anything.

You might want to consider what makes snow crystals form their shapes and bonds before venturing onto old slide paths thinking you'll learn anything more than a collection of data that has drastically changed form isothermically since the slide.

Avi-forecasting is about weather forecasting.

[sfotex]

^^^Exactly.

Also, ren, Reversos are not appropriate for 8mm ropes, as I said. Petzl makes a device called the Reversino for skinny ropes.

The new Reverso 3 is good for skinnier stuff:
For use on single ropes (≥ 8,9 mm), half (≥ 8,0 mm) and twin ropes (≥ 7,5 mm)
(http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=653)


Munters work well, but they're hard on ropes as the friction is provided by rope on rope contact.

[LightRanger]

The new Reverso 3 is good for skinnier stuff:
For use on single ropes (≥ 8,9 mm), half (≥ 8,0 mm) and twin ropes (≥ 7,5 mm)
(http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=653)


Munters work well, but they're hard on ropes as the friction is provided by rope on rope contact.

Ahh, thanks for that. I hadn't been keeping quite on top of climbing gear trends lately.

[H-wood]

For what it's worth (I'm a hack climber), every time I've gone climbing with John Bachar over the years, he's been using a munter hitch for belay. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

And the original poster is putting the cart way in front of the horse- dude, you need to know why you might want to "lower on to an avalanche slope" before planning to do it (as pointed out correctly by Gaijin). Valid reasons: to dig a pit, ski cut, jump on a pillow, get over a sketchy cornice or cliff.

Both of Jer's posts are dead nuts right. Dammit.

[AKturnanburn]

The BD ATC I have has little ridges on the friction side as well as tapering so it holds the smaller lines OK. If it was only one line it might be tough but with both there is enough friction and I can actually manuever with gloves. I would have someone belay me in but they are usually across the bowl or at the bottom (safe zone) waiting with eyes on.