EMT, WEMT, or OEC for Ski Patrol?

[Fuorilegge]

Mornin' All!

Search left me empty handed (for the more part) and was wondering if I could get a little help here.

I am a teacher and have several students who are interested in becoming ski patrollers as a seasonal profession. I have been a skier most of my life, but, could not answer their questions about certain things. I thought I would try to get some info from the TGR crew regarding a few ski patrol qualification questions.

My first question is...

I know that EMT training is required to work on most patrols. However, I do no know if I should be steering them towards an EMT (offered at the local community college), a WEMT (a longer much more expensive course) or an OEC (not offered anywhere near us) certification. I have heard some people say all you need is the EMT while others say that while the EMT will cut it, preference is given to those with WEMT or OEC certs? Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

Also, my students are wondering if you need a Blasting Certificate in order to work at a resort that does avi. work? I have no knowledge when it comes to this.

Me (and indirectly my students) would like to thank you in advance for the help.

[summit]

OEC is less detailed and less thorough than EMT, although it focuses more specifically on what ski patrol does (so the course is shorter). However, my understanding is that such focus is given anyways by most patrols in their probationary/field internship training. OEC is not something that is really recognized by any industry outside of ski patrol.

WEMT is a GREAT course. It is also something that can be taken as an upgrade course later.

Talk to your local mountain because different mountains have different requirements. Around here most want EMT but will accept OEC for the first year. One mountain will only take EMTs. Another mountain requires OEC even if you are an EMT. I've never heard of a mountain requiring WEMT.

[geomorph]

My advice would be to have them call up the patrol that they're interested in working for and see what their requirements are, as things can vary between which mountain you're working for. Where I patrolled, EMT was a must. National Ski Patrol is OEC, but my understanding is that if you have an EMT, that will generally be accepted (correct me if I'm wrong.) I'd avoid WEMT, as this is really not necessary. As far as blasting is concerned, I think that it is on-the-job training, but they should have some sort of Avy-1 (I worked on the EC so I'm not familiar with this.) Hope this helps, and prepare your students for a life of poverty!

[Fuorilegge]

Thanks for the advice so far everyone!

I realized before I posted that qualifications are resort specific, but, from what I have read and gotten so far, it appears that EMT is the best cert to have, with WEMT being good but not required. OEC seems like something you would take after you get your EMT as a kind of ski specific cert?

Thanks and please keep any and all advice coming.

[Name Redacted]

These thread should help you out

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...highlight=WEMT

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...highlight=WEMT

In my opinion the WEMT is the most inclusive although I guess the best would be to get your EMT then take a WFR because the WEMT tends to gear more towards outdoor use and the EMT gears more towards ambulance/ER use and the WFR is a really good course where you get a lot more outdoor knowledge.

For ski patrol, just getting your EMT would be your best bet and there are accelerated courses everywhere. It's a pretty easy course and can be done in less than a month in some cases. Plan on getting your IV add on too.

[allenataylor]

If I did it again I would get EMT or WEMT. OEC is a good course but it doesn't help much outside the industry. Also if someone is hurt or ill off the mtn and you want to help them it doesn't inspire much confidence in them telling them you are an OEC if its not an outdoor setting. People want to hear EMT when they are hurt. OEC is great though if you just plan on patrolling. EMT is very ambulance geared where OEC is all about improvisation.

[Fuorilegge]

Cool...just got off the phone with Mr. Eibs from the Brighton Ski Patrol and he said that EMT is the way to go.

Thanks again all. If you have any advice for my young maggots please post up.

[summit]

OEC<EMT

OEC = EMT - some skills - some training depth - clinical rotations - urban/ambulance ops - state recognition/certification + outdoor/make-do focus (usually OEC is ~50 less hours).

An EMT would find most of OEC to be review. A WEMT or a ski patrol trained EMT should find all of OEC to be review.

IIRC Some places allow EMTs to challenge for an OEC cert without an OEC class (as long they pass and NSP gets their $$$). OEC's may not challenge for an EMT cert.

I wouldn't avoid WEMT. No, it is not necessary. If these students of yours wish to be good patient providers, it would be a good thing. All of these courses are generally very thin and the more you can get, the better. Even a long WEMT course is probably only ~220 hours including clinicals.

I agree with Shregnar's comments too.

prepare your students for a life of poverty!

A skier comes into a bar at lunch. He asks for a beer. The bartender says, "that'll be a nickel." The skier is astounded. "A nickel? That's so cheap!" The bartender replies, "it's always a nickel here." The skier is elated and declares, "sick! Bring me a pitcher!" As he drinks, he notices some men at the bar drinking nothing. He asks the bartender, "why are those men not enjoying the cheap beer?" The bartender replied, "they are ski patrollers. They are waiting for happy hour."

[Fuorilegge]

Awesome guys! Thanks a lot!

Some of my students are now wondering where I am getting all this info from. I am a little scared to send them here to TGR...afraid some of you might scare them off!

[summit]

What do you teach?

And just for the record, I'm not a ski patroller.

[Fuorilegge]

I teach American Government, US History, World History, Consumer Economics, World Geography, Introduction to Art, Media Journalism, and Colorado History. I don't think I get paid nearly enough for it all, but, I do it for the love of the profession. We are an alternative school, so, we cater to the "difficult and hard to teach." I don't think so of course...they are all great kids!

Oh, who the heck am I kidding, I also do it because I get two weeks off in both December/January and March.

[AsheanMT]

Aside from using these certs for jobs like ski patrol you should also think about how these courses/certifications will benefit you (your students) personally. I took a W-EMT in Missoula a few years ago and must say that is was the single best course I've ever taken. VERY hands on with tons of time spent in emergency environments in both the front and the backcountry. We had to do two days in an ambulance as well as in the ER of our local hospital. We also received our Avi 1 and swiftwater 3 in full blown wilderness environments while performing things like wilderness extrication which took 12hrs through the night during january in Montana. Everything I learned in that course has stuck in my crawl. If and when an emergency occurs I find myself quickly and confidently being able to address the situation while everybody else is freaking out. It was money very well spent and if you have the opportunity (i.e. funds and the time) you should go for it. Why bother with lesser certs and lesser experiences when you can go all the way and really get the experience that will benefit ten fold in both your professional and personal persuits?

Just sayin.

[Fuorilegge]

While I understand where you are coming from, you have to understand these are highschoolers who don't have the 3,000 to plunk down for an EMT course. I do get where you are coming from, but, this is a real world situation for kids from a poor rural environment, so, I don't think the WEMT is really an option for most of them. It sounds like a great course, and I would recommend they get it in the future, but for them and for now, I don't see it as being a option (at least, not for the 99% of them that have to work just to put food on the table).

Thanks though!

Aside from using these certs for jobs like ski patrol you should also think about how these courses/certifications will benefit you (your students) personally. I took a W-EMT in Missoula a few years ago and must say that is was the single best course I've ever taken. VERY hands on with tons of time spent in emergency environments in both the front and the backcountry. We had to do two days in an ambulance as well as in the ER of our local hospital. We also received our Avi 1 and swiftwater 3 in full blown wilderness environments while performing things like wilderness extrication which took 12hrs through the night during january in Montana. Everything I learned in that course has stuck in my crawl. If and when an emergency occurs I find myself quickly and confidently being able to address the situation while everybody else is freaking out. It was money very well spent and if you have the opportunity (i.e. funds and the time) you should go for it. Why bother with lesser certs and lesser experiences when you can go all the way and really get the experience that will benefit ten fold in both your professional and personal persuits?

Just sayin.

[jon turner]

EMT is the best option. Some patrols will make you challenge the OEC before they hire you (meaning take the OEC practical exam, which is usually cake if you've passed the EMT, just study some of the ski specific things in the OEC book and you will be fine).

The EMT is roughly the same amount of hours as the OEC - one semester, plus some ambulance/ER time, but it does allow you to take other jobs, whereas OEC is pretty much ski patrol specific.

WEMT is an awesome class, but you can upgrade from an EMT to WEMT by taking a WFR class (10 days) down the road. From what I was told after my WFR, just mail copies of both certs, and WMI will mail you back a WEMT credential.

Most patrols will not allow you to work for them on a WFR alone.

[SkiEvil]

OEC is less detailed and less thorough than EMT, although it focuses more specifically on what ski patrol does (so the course is shorter). However, my understanding is that such focus is given anyways by most patrols in their probationary/field internship training. OEC is not something that is really recognized by any industry outside of ski patrol.

The state of Pennsylvania grants First Responder reciprocity for OEC. We are currently working on gaining EMT reciprocity. As far as EMT training vs. OEC I would say that they are comparable but it depends on the instructor. Some EMT's cannot hold a candle to some OEC trained people. The reverse is also true.

[Fuorilegge]

Thanks Jon!

Ps. Are you going to the CAIC CSAW meeting in Leadville on the 8th?

[jon turner]

While I understand where you are coming from, you have to understand these are highschoolers who don't have the 3,000 to plunk down for an EMT course.

EMT-B courses at community college in colorado are around 400-500 for the semester.

WFR course is 500-700 through WMI - NOLS. The WEMT is 2000-3000, and an upgrade from EMT to WEMT is 600-700.

Financially it makes the most sense to do the EMT first, then upgrade to WEMT if you want later.

[summit]

what jon said

The state of Pennsylvania grants First Responder reciprocity for OEC. We are currently working on gaining EMT reciprocity. As far as EMT training vs. OEC I would say that they are comparable but it depends on the instructor. Some EMT's cannot hold a candle to some OEC trained people. The reverse is also true.

I don't see anything wrong with OEC->FR reciprocity for the few states that have state certification/recognition of that level.

EMT reciprocity for OECs... seems like a very bad idea to me every bit as much as saying FR has reciprocity as an OEC. It is definitely something that could only happen on an individual state level. Most states would never go for it. It will never happen on the national level.

Thanks Jon!

Ps. Are you going to the CAIC CSAW meeting in Leadville on the 8th?

I'll be there.

You should also consider for these kids that many resorts don't want to hire under 21 for patrol. In fact, it is very hard to get any job as an EMT under 21. I'd reiterate again the point that ski patrol, and almost any job as an EMT, will pay poorly. It is a vocation of passion.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

Does anyone have any firsthand experience who can compare/contrast the WFR program of instruction from NOLS vs. WMA? Obviously, it depends somewhat on the instructor(s).

I know NOLS is kind of accepted as the "standard," but have heard from more than just a few pretty reputable sources that WMA's hands on/scenarios are more realistic and demanding, and the grading standards are more strict.

[Jonathan S.]

WEMT is an awesome class, but you can upgrade from an EMT to WEMT by taking a WFR class (10 days) down the road.

Even better, just take a five-day WEMT module. I found the module course I took to be very valuable, especially since our instructor was a mountain guide (and paramedic).

Otherwise, with a WFR, if you're already EMT (or even OEC), you're wasting many days and many dollars starting from scratch with classmates who know nothing at all.

[GoNads]

Here in Whis they require either your OFA 3 = 80 hours or an OEC of 98 hours w/ cpr-c + AED. They provide the rest of the specific training (IE: toboggans, patrolling technique...)

[zion zig zag]

especially since our instructor was a mountain guide (and paramedic).

Holy shit, I can't even imagine that combo. I'll bet God has less of a God complex than him.

[cptpowder]

You should also consider for these kids that many resorts don't want to hire under 21 for patrol. In fact, it is very hard to get any job as an EMT under 21. I'd reiterate again the point that ski patrol, and almost any job as an EMT, will pay poorly. It is a vocation of passion.

Im sure it's resort specific but you dont have to be 21 to work here in Santa Fe. As long as you met most of the following qualifications you'd get hired.

Expert Skiing / Snowboarding Ability You must be able to ski/ride all of the terrain within the ski area boundaries: Glades, Chutes, Steeps, and Moguls, and be able to ski in all snow conditions. Your skill level must be adequate to transport patients down the mountain in all terrain and conditions.


Physical Agility and Conditioning: Ski patrol work can be strenuous and physically demanding. The job requires a high level of physical conditioning, endurance, and strength. Ski Santa Fe is one of the highest (lift serviced) ski areas in the country with a top elevation of 12,075 ft. An ability to work in harsh mountain conditions is a must. Providing medical care and rescue in extreme weather conditions can be very challenging. You must have the ability to work well under pressure.


Strong interpersonal skills and the ability to get along well with others. The ability to work without constant supervision, and also as part of a team.


Current New Mexico EMT-Basic, or higher, licensure
Successful completion of our pre-employment medical written exam with an 80% or higher score.


Availability: We have both full and part time positions. If you are applying for a part-time position, you must be able to work enough days per week in the beginning to be adequately trained.


Equipment: You must provide your own personal equipment: skis, boots, bindings, layering clothes, eyewear, gloves, etc. The Ski Area will provide outer wear and medical vest/pack with EMS supplies.

[cptpowder]

We also have this.

The Safety Team is an intergral part of the Santa Fe Ski Patrol. Their responsibilities include promotion of the NM Skier Safety Act and the "Your Responsibility Code," as well as assisting with all normal duties of the Pro Patrol. Safety Team does not require EMT certification, but team members are trained to assist the patrol in patient care, extrication, and transport. The Safety Team is an excellant way to transition into the Patrol while gaining experience and knowledge of Ski Patrol operations. It requires strong intermediate to expert skiing skills, but not to the level of the Ski Patrol. Although there is no medical training required for the Safety Team, we strongly encourage such training. The Safety Team is also a great place to start if you are a licensed EMT but don't yet have the requisite skiing ability to patrol.

Im sure other resorts have something similar.

[Fuorilegge]

That is because you never get enough snow in Sante Fe amigo...

The 21 year old age requirement has to do with explosive work. Can't work with explosives if you are less than 21 (not legally of course). Then again, Sante Fe might have been trying to keep underage employment on the DL until you went and blew up their spot.

But, all the patroller heads that I spoke to today said they would not hire anyone under the age of 21.



So, you do have to be 21 if you are working at a resort that has avi. control.

Im sure it's resort specific but you dont have to be 21 to work here in Santa Fe. As long as you met most of the following qualifications you'd get hired.

Expert Skiing / Snowboarding Ability You must be able to ski/ride all of the terrain within the ski area boundaries: Glades, Chutes, Steeps, and Moguls, and be able to ski in all snow conditions. Your skill level must be adequate to transport patients down the mountain in all terrain and conditions.


Physical Agility and Conditioning: Ski patrol work can be strenuous and physically demanding. The job requires a high level of physical conditioning, endurance, and strength. Ski Santa Fe is one of the highest (lift serviced) ski areas in the country with a top elevation of 12,075 ft. An ability to work in harsh mountain conditions is a must. Providing medical care and rescue in extreme weather conditions can be very challenging. You must have the ability to work well under pressure.


Strong interpersonal skills and the ability to get along well with others. The ability to work without constant supervision, and also as part of a team.


Current New Mexico EMT-Basic, or higher, licensure
Successful completion of our pre-employment medical written exam with an 80% or higher score.


Availability: We have both full and part time positions. If you are applying for a part-time position, you must be able to work enough days per week in the beginning to be adequately trained.


Equipment: You must provide your own personal equipment: skis, boots, bindings, layering clothes, eyewear, gloves, etc. The Ski Area will provide outer wear and medical vest/pack with EMS supplies.