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  1. #1
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    Making a Template

    I've searched quite a bit on how to make a template but didn't get too much detailed info.

    How do you make a paper template to mount bindings? How do you ensure the BSL is correct and that the toe and heel pieces are straight when tracing the holes?

    If anyone has experience making templates let me know how you do it with as much detail as possible.

    I'll be mounting PX18's, Rossi Axial2 140's, Sally STH16's and Salli s912's.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Conundrum is your man.

  3. #3
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    i don't remember it, but there's a link somewhere in tech talk or maybe gear swap for that matter with an attachment for a sally driver template in it. so that should help you with your sth16s and 912s.

    i would definitely shoot a pm pechelman's way. he hooked me up with the sally template. i mean the dude is an engineer, he should definitely be able to help you.
    Magic Mountain Freeride Team...bringing your grom's game to the next level.

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  4. #4
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    It's too bad that most manufacturers of alpine bindings, think no one should ever mount their own, and certainly not without a jig.

    You can see from Rossi's specs how they measure boot sole; I would confirm this for each separate manufacturer.
    http://www.rasc.ru/gear/pdf/manual0506_r_en_US.pdf

    You may get ideas for how to make you paper template by looking at the AT & Tele ones.
    http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/nax...o_mount_2.html
    http://www.voile-usa.com/HWDRILL072UPv6.pdf

    I would line everything up with a reference line for the boot center on my template.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by whacked View Post
    It's too bad that most manufacturers of alpine bindings, think no one should ever mount their own, and certainly not without a jig.

    You can see from Rossi's specs how they measure boot sole; I would confirm this for each separate manufacturer.
    http://www.rasc.ru/gear/pdf/manual0506_r_en_US.pdf

    You may get ideas for how to make you paper template by looking at the AT & Tele ones.
    http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/nax...o_mount_2.html
    http://www.voile-usa.com/HWDRILL072UPv6.pdf

    I would line everything up with a reference line for the boot center on my template.

    Good links. I'll PM Conundrum and Pechelman to see what they have also.

    Anyone else have experience making paper templates that can chime in? How do you do it?

  6. #6
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    You can take measurements of the holes in an old pair of skis, mounted for a known bsl, draw it up in a cad program (or transfer it to a piece of paper using some charcoal) and adjust distance between the holes for the toe and heel.

    Edit: I have not actually done this, but Ive given it some thought...
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiSt View Post
    You can take measurements of the holes in an old pair of skis, mounted for a known bsl, draw it up in a cad program (or transfer it to a piece of paper using some charcoal) and adjust distance between the holes for the toe and heel.

    Edit: I have not actually done this, but Ive given it some thought...
    That is a good idea but unfortunatly I don't have any skis that were pre-drilled for the bindings I have to mount.

  8. #8
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    You can download most templates off the internet. I have done this in a pinch. Make sure that your printer is set to scale though! Paper jigs are NOT recommended, especially since most new skis have crazy sidewalls/topsheets which makes it harder to center a flimsy piece of paper. Also, with paper jigs, your actual boot midsole isn't able to be reliably double checked before drilling.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  9. #9
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    If you can get your hands on the clear plastic template the dukes come with they beat a paper jig. Seems they (Marker) changed and went to a cheaper non see through paper template later in the season. It's a shame every binding company doesn't provide a decent template with new binders.
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
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    ski on in eternal peace

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DropCliffsNotBombs View Post
    You can download most templates off the internet.
    Where the hell do you do this, aside from here?

  11. #11
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    Pretty sure wild snow had some at binder template links
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  12. #12
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    Sent you a pm Atchung.

    I cut the plastic to be the same width as a 2x4 and clamped it down to a board. This gave me something to attach an actual jig to and stopped the plastic from chipping out when I drilled. I scribed a midsole line on the plastic and used the jigs set to whatever BSL I needed. I then scribed a ski center line in the plastic by measuring with microcalipers. I did probably a couple hundred for mags over the last couple years and I think only two guys said the ski center line was off maybe a mm. I'm saying that to tell you to measure a bunch of times because you have to be pretty precise and I was bummed to send a couple off that were not exact.

    I probably won't make anymore because it took a lot of time and that is something I don't have as much of anymore...and I'm fresh out of herb and this is a stoner project.

    I have a couple templates left over from people who ended up not needing them and a little bit of plastic is someone wanted them. I'll check tonight and post up what I have.

    For paper templates, I just stretch paper over a ski, tape it in place, and mark the proper holes using a jig. Pretty simple.
    Last edited by Conundrum; 09-18-2008 at 10:38 AM.

  13. #13
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    i dont have any rossi\looks as ive only ever skied or mounted, naxos, fritschis, dynafit, or solly bindings.

    to make a jig you need 4 things
    a) calipers
    b) computer with a cad program and a printer that can do 11x17
    c) the bindings in question
    d) the boots you want to mount

    step 1
    carefully measure the binding hole pattern and write it down
    remeasure, verify
    remeasure, verify
    cross check your numbers with metric values by converting them for a sanity check
    if its a number that converts to 24.93mm, its probably actually 25mm
    see what 25mm is in inches, and double check your measurement to see if its plausible, if its not, stick with what you have

    step 2
    set your bindings on a table, make sure your heel is centered in its track, and place your boot in them as close as you can to how you think theyd be mounted on a real ski. this part is tricky and very by feel
    measure the distance from the toe of your boot to either one of the holes of your toe peice, or something on the toe peice that you can relate to the hole pattern. you're looking to get a relative distance so you know how much to offset the toe on the template.

    similarly, take a measurement on the heel to provide a sanity check down the road as well as to provide a relative placement on the template.

    step 3
    go into cad, draw the toe and heel pattern centered about one long center line
    locate the toe\heel patterns relative to one another based off the measurements you took in step 2
    double check this with your BSL by drawing a line to verify it fits and is relatively good spot
    check your BSL center on the cad and compare it with your setup in step 2. compare it to something like a hole on the toe peice since thats what sets your center and is the more critical of the two peices.

    step 4
    add in dimensions on your cad, print it off 1:1 scale on an 11x17 paper (everything but the most squatch of sizes should fit fine)
    lay out the template, place your bindings on it, and double check that everything lines up, or verify with a jig if you can get access to one like at a ski shop or something.
    place your boot in there also, and double check that the BSL line you drew on the CAD in Step 3 matches with the one on your boot. (forget about the heel peice and just set it aside during this step)
    I also like to draw a toe line to verify that the boot is correct in its relative position to the toe peice in my cad

    step 5
    drink some beer because at this point its probably been about an hour if youve done this before, and more like 3-4 if you havent

    step 6
    go back to your cad model
    clean things up
    add cross hairs to your circles you drew for the toe\heel pattern
    add a BSL line if you havent
    add a toe line if you havent
    add a heel line if you want
    add dimensions on everything of worth (gives a great way to dbl check that the template prints 1:1)
    print file to pdf, and save
    done

    it takes a while, but onec its done, mounting is really easy so long as you follow good shop practice when working with the paper jig. Ive mounted probably about 7-8 dynafits and 6-7 sollys with mine and have had no trouble, and others have used them with similar results. I can layout and drill dynafit mount now in 20 minutes (this is not counting the actual putting in glue, screwing in the bindings, and setting forward position of the heel)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    i dont have any rossi\looks as ive only ever skied or mounted, naxos, fritschis, dynafit, or solly bindings.

    to make a jig you need 4 things
    a) calipers
    b) computer with a cad program and a printer that can do 11x17
    c) the bindings in question
    d) the boots you want to mount

    step 1
    carefully measure the binding hole pattern and write it down
    remeasure, verify
    remeasure, verify
    cross check your numbers with metric values by converting them for a sanity check
    if its a number that converts to 24.93mm, its probably actually 25mm
    see what 25mm is in inches, and double check your measurement to see if its plausible, if its not, stick with what you have

    step 2
    set your bindings on a table, make sure your heel is centered in its track, and place your boot in them as close as you can to how you think theyd be mounted on a real ski. this part is tricky and very by feel
    measure the distance from the toe of your boot to either one of the holes of your toe peice, or something on the toe peice that you can relate to the hole pattern. you're looking to get a relative distance so you know how much to offset the toe on the template.

    similarly, take a measurement on the heel to provide a sanity check down the road as well as to provide a relative placement on the template.

    step 3
    go into cad, draw the toe and heel pattern centered about one long center line
    locate the toe\heel patterns relative to one another based off the measurements you took in step 2
    double check this with your BSL by drawing a line to verify it fits and is relatively good spot
    check your BSL center on the cad and compare it with your setup in step 2. compare it to something like a hole on the toe peice since thats what sets your center and is the more critical of the two peices.

    step 4
    add in dimensions on your cad, print it off 1:1 scale on an 11x17 paper (everything but the most squatch of sizes should fit fine)
    lay out the template, place your bindings on it, and double check that everything lines up, or verify with a jig if you can get access to one like at a ski shop or something.
    place your boot in there also, and double check that the BSL line you drew on the CAD in Step 3 matches with the one on your boot. (forget about the heel peice and just set it aside during this step)
    I also like to draw a toe line to verify that the boot is correct in its relative position to the toe peice in my cad

    step 5
    drink some beer because at this point its probably been about an hour if youve done this before, and more like 3-4 if you havent

    step 6
    go back to your cad model
    clean things up
    add cross hairs to your circles you drew for the toe\heel pattern
    add a BSL line if you havent
    add a toe line if you havent
    add a heel line if you want
    add dimensions on everything of worth (gives a great way to dbl check that the template prints 1:1)
    print file to pdf, and save
    done

    it takes a while, but onec its done, mounting is really easy so long as you follow good shop practice when working with the paper jig. Ive mounted probably about 7-8 dynafits and 6-7 sollys with mine and have had no trouble, and others have used them with similar results. I can layout and drill dynafit mount now in 20 minutes (this is not counting the actual putting in glue, screwing in the bindings, and setting forward position of the heel)
    Holy fuckin rocket science
    Seems like scorin some bud and/or a few alcohol libeations and finding a good brodealing tech would be easier
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -
    ski on in eternal peace

  15. #15
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    meh
    i like to do the mounts myself
    and i know the template i made is accurate, and free, save for my time, which only takes me about an hour because ive done this type of precision layout for years and on things much more precise.

    really its very simple, and there are a lot of words there because it may not be obvious to someone how to do this without this type of experience.

    plus having made the templates, it takes 5 minutes to draw up a different BSL by just moving things around
    and i get to share them with friends or people here who want to learn to do mounts themselves

  16. #16
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    I can say p's dynafit template fuggin rocks. I've used it four or five times now and it's slick.

  17. #17
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    dibs

    (At the risk of offending everyone...)

    Dibs on the templates and plastic that Conundrum has left over. pm sent

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    I can say p's dynafit template fuggin rocks. I've used it four or five times now and it's slick.
    thanks, N

    Quote Originally Posted by skifishbum View Post
    Seems like scorin some bud and/or a few alcohol libeations and finding a good brodealing tech would be easier
    lastly, ill also add that my motivation for making templates were for dynafits. Most places do not have jigs and do hand mounts as it is.
    might as well do them myself

  19. #19
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    Conundrum and Pechelman win the "Fucking Awesome Man" trophy.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmrazik View Post
    (At the risk of offending everyone...)

    Dibs on the templates and plastic that Conundrum has left over. pm sent
    You're a shithead.

  21. #21
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    Here's what I've got:

    1x 325 BSL Solly
    2x 325 BSL P18/FKS/Axial/Pivot
    1x Freeride/Freeride +

    1x Duke
    1x Duke w/ the center hole off 1 mm, totally useable, you just have to know it and line your mark up with the centerline, not the center of the hole

    I got rid of the spare plastic. Sorry achtung, doesn't look like I'll be much help.

    I'd let any of it go for a sixer and shipping but I'm not going to be in any rush to get it out.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Here's what I've got:

    1x 325 BSL Solly
    2x 325 BSL P18/FKS/Axial/Pivot
    1x Freeride/Freeride +

    1x Duke
    1x Duke w/ the center hole off 1 mm, totally useable, you just have to know it and line your mark up with the centerline, not the center of the hole

    I got rid of the spare plastic. Sorry achtung, doesn't look like I'll be much help.

    I'd let any of it go for a sixer and shipping but I'm not going to be in any rush to get it out.
    Thanks anyway man. I'll pick up some plastic around here and try it myself. BTW, what thickness plastic did you use?

  23. #23
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    1/8" is good. It's a little brittle but any thicker than that and it starts getting expensive. Ask your local plastics guys if they have a scrap pile. They'll usually give you some of that for a couple bucks.

  24. #24
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    as far as paper jigs go, from mounting a few skis up in the last few years, the ones I liked best to use is the hammerhead template - I found the center-line finding lines on the 'jig' easy as hell to use accurately. fwiw...

  25. #25
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    Ach,

    Conundrum and Pech gave good advice. On the off chance that you are in good with any of the local ski shops, I would take the plastic you find in to the shop and ask to borrow the Jig. The local shop here let me do it for free, but I would guess a Six pack would get you the same love almost anywhere.

    Just mark a centerline on the plastic, place the gig over it...mark your holes and leave. Outside of doing the CAD thingy...this is probably the only way you will get the holes 100% exact.

    I used old "demo" boards to make my templates and I just vice them to the skis and drill. The only risk you take is getting the template slightly off center, but as long as you use the edges as your guide and not the graphics you should be able to get it within 1 to 2mm and most shops techs probably only hit that range anyways...and some are much worse.

    Probably nothing you have not thought of already...but if not, hope it helps.

    KAK

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