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  1. #176
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    tl:dr sept the last 25 posts.

    Deep dive so I’ll follow suit:

    I’ll start with the damage? First injuries @ 18yo and 20yo respectively. Compressions of L3/4 - 4/5 - L5/S1. Didn’t feel major intermittent discomfort until I was 25yo. Then slowly advancing chronic pain, starting at 29. At 60, I’ve been through an amount of trials and tribulations but, never got to far astray of keeping the region healthy. It doesn’t give you much choice. Currently a permanently severed perianal nerve @ L5/S1 which presents its own set of circumstances. Herniated @ L4/5. Severe compressions at L2/3 & 3/4. Severe stenosis throughout the region, inside mostly - which I’ll try and come back around to.

    Why I stopped to comment? First; agree with a lot of info already presented. Focus on stabilizers and connective tissue is my only goal. Everything else gets dictated to as we work our way towards larger muscle groups. Same as Grinch said; “first to fire” I just came to the same end by a different path.

    My keys are to keep the connector muscles limber and strong in duration and power: Sometimes they are in discomfort because I focus on them. Sometimes they are spasming. Either way… They are hard to locate and difficult to get to. Per Grinch; The muscles longitudinally along the spinal cord are critical and superman’s are good focused strength moves. My primary aim is getting them to release along with the hip flexors and all the associated connector/alignment muscles in these 2 regions. So decompression is the goal.

    I use an 8’ x 1” aluminum 2 piece pole. It was formerly a snow rake extension and have used it for 15yrs just about everyday. I can break it down and take it wherever I can take my ski poles.

    *How to use the pole at the end of this post.

    Which leads me to posture; like OG alluded to, posture is everything (subsequent to alignment). I have altered my ski posture substantially over time to improve on inherent discomfort, recovery, and to mitigate the need for higher forces/aggressive body posture. I could get into this if anyone wants to explore it.

    Static weight is your nemesis in certain respects. I have enhanced the initial damages over and over in the gym. Large muscle groups are obviously important. I use static weight. I could go into this if anyone wants more but, essentially; the most pressure applied to my lumbar region is with a near vertical hack squat. My focus is on the lymphatic system and how it aids strength in its various forms.

    The direction my efforts take have matured over time. I rest about 6 to 10 weeks a year (in the shoulder seasons when the barometer flips). I gain 6 to 8lbs and feel like shit and get re-motivated. The overall pain is fibermialic like and I have to take the break.

    The stenosis is the constant. (lumbar and cervical regions). If I can keep what ails me moving I’m okay. No one tightness/spasm/weakness gets unmolested.

    The constant movement of my spine keeps the stenosis at bay. Hopefully breaking it down and at best, transporting. The staff routine and aerobic activity are the means. An elliptical, a mini tramp, and a versa climber along with plyometric and static weight mobility routines are the methods.

    All injuries are life changing. My lumbar has had the most impact. 2500+ chiropractic visits, myriad forms of massage (screaming pillows or something to bite on - oh yea baby), acupuncture, lava baths, hot rocks, 2 aborted surgeries (via PT), inversion tables, cortisone/lidocaine injections, sulfur pools, epidural’s… I've had to give up golf, bikes, running, walking, basketball. A motorcycle (of any discipline) is painful in minutes and driving can be a bitch.

    *
    Setting the assembled 8’x1” pole immediately outside your left foot (we will affect the right side of the body in this example), extending past through your left hand (as if you were at attention except your hand holding the pole). Passing dead center, the length of your arm and over the center of your medial deltoid. The pole is vertical – your body adapting to it. Raise your right hand up and over your head and grab the bar that your left side is holding stable at 90*. Now raise your right hip so that you can reach farther up the bar. The bar bows a bit as you get a better reach upwards and creates a solid pressure on your center delt. With substantial right hand grip pressure, allow your right hip to relax. You need to grip high enough that there is a significant space under your right foot with the right hip completely relaxed. You can now search for all the connective tissue along your spine and your pelvic girdle.

    advanced; variations on where you align the highly tensioned pole on the outside of your left foot (touching) will allow you to better search and release small muscle/muscle groups. Moving your fully extended foot out to the right, to the rear and forward will allow you to better search and release small muscle/muscle groups. Making an effort to extend the ankle and heel to the ground will elongate particular muscles once you have found them.

    I learned this through tai chi with a staff which I have substantially modified and infused yoga and the 8’ aluminum pole. The pole is also used for rotational stretches when the absence of pain allows. Across your back, both arms completely extend outwards along the staff. Develop a solid flat footed stance and rotate in both directions. Move the pole up or down your back and neck, depending on what region needs the work. Also do all the above bent at the waist at different degrees that feel comfortable to release, lats, obliques, and the top gluts.
    Last edited by Gepeto; 05-27-2019 at 08:41 PM.
    "knowledgeable in escapades of the flesh"

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gepeto View Post
    tl:dr sept the last 25 posts.
    .
    Thanks for the tip

    I got an intervertebral device (Coflex) on top of laminectomy for my mostly stenosis. It's worth looking into if the pain becomes too depressing. It's such a relief to able to stand more than a few minutes without pain. Although, I've never had any serious injuries to my spine. Mine is almost all degenerative. I did bruise my tailbone once and it took several years for that to heal and probably did some permanent damage.

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gepeto View Post
    tl:dr sept the last 25 posts.

    Deep dive so Iíll follow suit:

    Iíll start with the damage? First injuries @ 18yo and 20yo respectively. Compressions of L3/4 - 4/5 - L5/S1. Didnít feel major intermittent discomfort until I was 25yo. Then slowly advancing chronic pain, starting at 29. At 60, Iíve been through an amount of trials and tribulations but, never got to far astray of keeping the region healthy. It doesnít give you much choice. Currently a permanently severed perianal nerve @ L5/S1 which presents its own set of circumstances. Herniated @ L4/5. Severe compressions at L2/3 & 3/4. Severe stenosis throughout the region, inside mostly - which Iíll try and come back around to.

    Why I stopped to comment? First; agree with a lot of info already presented. Focus on stabilizers and connective tissue is my only goal. Everything else gets dictated to as we work our way towards larger muscle groups. Same as Grinch said; ďfirst to fireĒ I just came to the same end by a different path.

    My keys are to keep the connector muscles limber and strong in duration and power: Sometimes they are in discomfort because I focus on them. Sometimes they are spasming. Either wayÖ They are hard to locate and difficult to get to. Per Grinch; The muscles longitudinally along the spinal cord are critical and supermanís are good focused strength moves. My primary aim is getting them to release along with the hip flexors and all the associated connector/alignment muscles in these 2 regions. So decompression is the goal.

    I use an 8í x 1Ē aluminum 2 piece pole. It was formerly a snow rake extension and have used it for 15yrs just about everyday. I can break it down and take it wherever I can take my ski poles.

    *How to use the pole at the end of this post.

    Which leads me to posture; like OG alluded to, posture is everything (subsequent to alignment). I have altered my ski posture substantially over time to improve on inherent discomfort, recovery, and to mitigate the need for higher forces/aggressive body posture. I could get into this if anyone wants to explore it.

    Static weight is your nemesis in certain respects. I have enhanced the initial damages over and over in the gym. Large muscle groups are obviously important. I use static weight. I could go into this if anyone wants more but, essentially; the most pressure applied to my lumbar region is with a near vertical hack squat. My focus is on the lymphatic system and how it aids strength in its various forms.

    The direction my efforts take have matured over time. I rest about 6 to 10 weeks a year (in the shoulder seasons when the barometer flips). I gain 6 to 8lbs and feel like shit and get re-motivated. The overall pain is fibermialic like and I have to take the break.

    The stenosis is the constant. (lumbar and cervical regions). If I can keep what ails me moving Iím okay. No one tightness/spasm/weakness gets unmolested.

    The constant movement of my spine keeps the stenosis at bay. Hopefully breaking it down and at best, transporting. The staff routine and aerobic activity are the means. An elliptical, a mini tramp, and a versa climber along with plyometric and static weight mobility routines are the methods.

    All injuries are life changing. My lumbar has had the most impact. 2500+ chiropractic visits, myriad forms of massage (screaming pillows or something to bite on - oh yea baby), acupuncture, lava baths, hot rocks, 2 aborted surgeries (via PT), inversion tables, cortisone/lidocaine injections, sulfur pools, epiduralísÖ I've had to give up golf, bikes, running, walking, basketball. A motorcycle (of any discipline) is painful in minutes and driving can be a bitch.

    *
    Setting the assembled 8íx1Ē pole immediately outside your left foot (we will affect the right side of the body in this example), extending past through your left hand (as if you were at attention except your hand holding the pole). Passing dead center, the length of your arm and over the center of your medial deltoid. The pole is vertical Ė your body adapting to it. Raise your right hand up and over your head and grab the bar that your left side is holding stable at 90*. Now raise your right hip so that you can reach farther up the bar. The bar bows a bit as you get a better reach upwards and creates a solid pressure on your center delt. With substantial right hand grip pressure, allow your right hip to relax. You need to grip high enough that there is a significant space under your right foot with the right hip completely relaxed. You can now search for all the connective tissue along your spine and your pelvic girdle.

    advanced; variations on where you align the highly tensioned pole on the outside of your left foot will allow you to better search and release small muscle/muscle groups. Moving your fully extended foot out the right, to the rear and forward will allow you to better search and release small muscle/muscle groups. Making an effort to extend the ankle and heel to the ground will elongate particular muscles once you have found them)

    I learned this through tai chi with a staff which I have substantially modified and infused yoga and the 8í aluminum pole. The pole is also used for rotational stretches when the absence of pain allows. Across you back, both arms completely extend outwards along the staff. Develop a solid flatfooted stance and rotate on both directions. Move the pole up or down depending on what region needs the work. Also do all the above bent at the waist that feel comfortable or figure out the need to release, lats, obliques, and the top gluts.
    Sounds very familiar, all of that. Same injuries I have to maintain. Maybe not quite as acute. Hard to say. I'm able to do what I want to a degree as long as I prepare and then properly recover afterwards before I do it again. Hiking down mountains is a no no(too much pounding)and dynamic twisting like golf(regular or frisbee) is a recipe for imminent disaster . I can build to skiing good vert on the hill by mid season or longer bike rides mid season. It's best not to reaggravate it so a cautious approach early one is the best course. I couldn't care less about weight training. Longevity will be measured in stability, not to be confused with larger core muscles. Stabilizer muscles will be the barometer for what I'm able to do. Most everyones flexion and weaknesses are at the SI, l3,4,5. Then nerves get pinched(which can lead to numbness or tingling down the leg/extremities). I compressed and broke or shattered T 4,5,6,7 and shrunk myself over an inch. Occasionally that gets sore after a long day in the mountains with pack but because that part of the spine is surrounded by the rib cage and the spine doesn't bend/flex much there it's really well supported/stabilized. I can lift or shovel or whatever without concern for it. The focus is always on stabilizing S1,L3,4,5. Best of luck Gepeto. I have a feeling we'll be bouncing our research back and forth ongoing

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  4. #179
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    *cleaned up the above instructions - goofed on which hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4matic View Post
    I got an intervertebral device (Coflex) on top of laminectomy for my mostly stenosis. It's worth looking into if the pain becomes too depressing.
    Yea, both previous surgeries were going to be fusions with a substantial stenosis cleaning and to clean up around the severed nerve. The only reason for the surgeries were to more permanently relieve pain. No gain in motion or lost motor control and subisquent atrophy. I would think I'm probably now a good candidate for Colfax.

    PT'd hard before cut dates. Cortisone and lidocaine shots made this effort much easier. Got healthy enough to mitigate the pain on my own and postponed the invasive shit.

    You mentioned your new found pain. I can't relax on the routine to much or the bad pain comes back - spiders/spasms/muscle dehydration/weak spots. Broad Tingling - acute stinging - hot and radiating... those are the ones I try to keep active. Just indications of nerves firing. They can happen on the hill or during a workout. The possibility is there however I'm exerting myself. If I'm feeling aligned and no weak spot, I know that it's good pain.

    You mentioned the popcorn around your surgery site. I have popcorn in almost all my injury sites, knees shoulders, wrists, upper/lower spine. Lots of free radicals (and more likely in your case), post surgical waste (which can hang around for years), lose plica (scar tissue), get dragged along as the body heals. Intense local stim - Like Self Jupiter mentioned - a lax ball or something softer to start. Fast range of motion exercise and shiatsu will reduce the popcorn too. If I hear to much, I know I'm slackin.
    Last edited by Gepeto; 05-27-2019 at 08:45 PM.
    "knowledgeable in escapades of the flesh"

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    I have a feeling we'll be bouncing our research back and forth ongoing
    Bring whatever works... I'll try anything twice. Next up; I've been drilling down on cryotherapy. So far, my research has only revealed short term relief.
    "knowledgeable in escapades of the flesh"

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gepeto View Post
    *
    You mentioned your new found pain.
    I still have occasional very mild short lived sciatica in both legs. It's scary thinking it might come back. As far as new pain, my right butt has a little bit of pain that I didn't have prior. I'm hoping that is just a surgical bruise or something that will heal. I can feel a little sore spot develop when I work it too much with swimming (kicking) or other exercise (back extension and leg curl). It's slowly getting better. My wound and surrounding area is all good; still some pain in there and weak but doc said excellent healing and no bandages needed. Smooth now too.

    I'm so glad I didn't have to do fusion. I probably would have out of desperation but the doc said thats a poor option long term.

    I just couldn't snowboard with the tingling in my front foot; no control. I think I could probably ski like that but it wouldn't be great. Good luck! If you can get a non-fusion option approved I'd go for it.

  7. #182
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    2 mo update:

    The sciatic pain is gone which was reason for the surgery. 100% success with that so far.

    Swimming has really helped balance my strength and I'm noticeably weaker doing my weight routine from swimming. I swim 4-5 days a week.

    When I started swimming I kicked a bit too hard and strained a muscle in my low back . It's getting better and only hurts when tired; not too worried about it. I can only swim for 25-30 minutes before muscle fatigue and sets in. Slow walls and moderate kicking is key.

    Left leg is still numb, walking is better but still limited. Tingling and spasms in that leg continue.

    Still some pain around the wound when driving too long.

    Heat really helps loosen lower back.

  8. #183
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    The strain in my lower right back is almost healed. I only feel it a little at the end of a 45 minute swim. Even did some butterfly at the end. Thats anaerobic for me. If I can continue getting stronger till my next follow up in 30 days Iím going to ask for a sports physio. I think I get 8 visits with insurance.

  9. #184
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    A good physio is worth their weight in gold. Paid or not it's worth it in the big picture. Glad you're progressing

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  10. #185
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    10 weeks post laminectomy/coflex device. I'm basically pain free. The little knot/strain is 90% gone. Swimming helps that.

    I've started doing squats with no weight and it was a struggle at first but strength from squats builds quickly. Amazing how sore my thighs are after no weight squats.

    Walking is now my biggest challenge. I assumed when the pressure was released from the nerve that the strength would return to my lower leg quickly, like a rubber band. It does not.. What I've concluded is since the nerves were dormant for months the muscles affected have atrophied more than I expected. The problem is the muscles need to be be strengthened from scratch. Like I've never walked! So now the focus is walking daily. It takes every bit of my core strength to maintain a proper gait at pace of appx 2 mph. I could go faster but I lose form so the idea is make sure each step is properly executed. It's difficult. The interesting thing is walking on flat is much harder than walking up or down hill. i can motor up and down pretty well. Flat obviously engages more small muscles and the act of fully rolling my foot each step on flat is a real struggle. I'm staying optimistic that recovery of my leg is just a very slow process which is what the doc has said. My goal is to walk around Lake Chabot this year (9 miles) .

  11. #186
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    Four mile walk yesterday. Six miles today in less than two hours. Weak but stable throughout.

    Doing squats is really helping stabilize my core. I need to be careful with that but itís working.

    3 month follow up on Wednesday. Hoping to get release for yoga and chip and putt.


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  12. #187
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    Great to hear the progress. It's not a race though I guess. Or maybe it is and you're trying to retain your world championship title?

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  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinch View Post
    Great to hear the progress. It's not a race though I guess. Or maybe it is and you're trying to retain your world championship title?
    It kinda is. I been sitting around for 6 months and missed an epic year of skiing. I'm anxious to get back in the game. In 2016 I won a championship in golf when I could barely walk and I haven't really played since. Plus, you can't walk too much, right? What's the harm? Heading to the gym for a swim soon. I'm tired of being soft.

  14. #189
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    Haa get it champ. I can empathize. The motivation to get better and be able to achieve your goals is crucial. In one of my physio stints it was group physio with a number of people with different nerve damage issues. It was ez to see who was going to recover and the extent of the injury or type of injury didn’t decide who would recover and who wouldn’t . The individual person decides. The active and motivated person was going to get there. They had a fun life to get back to. You’ll get there I’m sure come he’ll or high water. I’m just cautioning against overdoing it as we can all do. I hate taking backwards steps. I’m still learning to temper my training. I’ve gone the other way now. I’m afraid to do to much for fear of reinjury because of reinjury, if that makes sense. “It’s ez to train hard but hard to train ez” is something the consummate overtraining athlete struggles to dial in. Not saying you are overtraining just sharing what I’ve seen in case it’s ever applicable

  15. #190
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    I been there. Hope turns to despair. I'm an upbeat person and can't imagine going through this stuff if with tendency to depression. I'm not really working that hard. It just sounds like it. If I get cleared for yoga that will be a big help. My weight routine is thirty minutes and I swim for 30-45 minutes. That's it. Now that I can walk it will make getting stronger a lot easier.

  16. #191
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    Nice! Yoga and walking are perfect exercises. One of the benefits of all the physio I’ve done is having those tools that I can bring out whenever I get a strain. Nice to have those tools to prevent anything serious or build up as needed. Yoga would be even better I’d imagine. I’ve narrowed my routines to focus solely on my injury where the yoga, I’m guessing yoga will encompass your whole body . Tools for life. walking is what our bodies are designed to do. After any strain I chill for 2-3 days to let the muscle heal then start walking or if I’m just sore at theinjury I’ll go for a walk to align my spine. Sometimes just a few hundred feet relieves the discomfort and I can then increase the mobility even more with some light stretching

  17. #192
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    The strain in my lower right back is almost healed. I only feel it a little at the end of a 45 minute swim. Even did some butterfly at the end. Thats anaerobic for me. If I can continue getting stronger till my next follow up in 30 days Iím going to ask for a sports physio. I think I get 8 visits with insurance.

  18. #193
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    Helps to research/ask around and pick a good one. If you can I wouldn't tell them you have insurance. Just get the receipts and file them with your insurance company. Some physios have a tendency to milk the sessions and string you along slowly to get the insurance $. Best to tell them you're on s budget but motivated to learn. Get the exercises one day and really dial them in for a day or 2(write them down for long term usage). Then do another physio appointment and repeat. Half hour sessions can go quick and its ez to waste valuable time. Exercises dont have to be complicated, you just have to learn why you're doing them specifically and apply them repetitively. It's often best to find those physio exercises that are the easiest and that you can and will do regularly. It's all about repetition and teaching those stabilizer muscles to fire intuitively. Usually a 6-8 week program will have you relatively stable and injury protected or atleast know where you stand. Figure the effective exercises that are working and that you'll do and keep doing them. Nice to have them burned into the brain so you can get back to them un a flash

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  19. #194
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    3 mo follow up today. Got a perfectly vague answer about what I can do. Basically everything in moderation... Although he did echo some of grinch recommendations and thought compression type weights were a bad idea..sort of. I asked for Physio but he said they likely wouldn't see me more than a couple times with my current fitness. His only firm affirmative. More swimming.

  20. #195
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    Swimmings great. Always feel good after getting out of the water. Limbers me up, no impacts or dynamic motion. So fluid and controlled. Just generally safe and effective. Maybe an opinion from a physiotherapist as well?

  21. #196
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    Yeah, I may try to find a physio and pay for a couple visits.

  22. #197
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    I had what I thought was a back spasm a week ago Friday that accelerated over the week into me losing more and more ability to take care of myself. I ended up at the ER last Thursday and am still at the hospital today with surgery scheduled for tomorrow.

    L5-S1 ó procedure will be left lateral recess decompression & possible microdiscectomy.

    Iím happy there is a plan in place to deal with it, but Iím pretty frustrated with my challenges this year trying to regain lost fitness after missing most of last year with C6-C7 pains.

    Gonna be restarting at zero again on my fitness...

  23. #198
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    Holy shit man, that deteriorated from yesterday. Best of luck and tell E that now, more than ever, he needs to wait on you hand over fist.

    Where you getting this done?
    Check Out Ullr's Mobile Avalanche Safety Tools for iOS and Android
    www.ullrlabs.com

  24. #199
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    St Vís. I like the doc and just kinda got lucky with him being the guy on call

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    Dang AC. GL with the surgery and the recovery.

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