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  1. #701
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    The pustules are pretty visible. Doesn't seem like an md is required

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    PM Maimonides
    6 years of Hebrew school, but the reference went over my head. I know he was a physician among many other things and wrote about morality, but that's about it. But then I slept through as much of the 6 years as I could.

  3. #703
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    The trendlines have shifted, as we know: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...stream-1344955

    “The more they dig into it being about freedom, the more susceptible they become to the theories,” said Dave Gorski, a Michigan physician who has tracked the anti-vaccine movement for two decades. “Appeals to freedom are like the gateway drug to pseudoscience.”

    At the extremes are legislators like Jonathan Stickland, a pro-National Rifle Association, Christian conservative in the Texas Assembly, who has described vaccines as “sorcery” while personally attacking Baylor University scientist Peter Hotez
    194 Praxis Carbon Ullrs for sale, $290: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...54#post5606654

  4. #704
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    The Dark Ages are circling back around.

  5. #705
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    Curious what peeps here think or know about the studies performed by peter aaby. Here’s one of his recent ones: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868131/

  6. #706
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    No vaccine is completely safe; if a vaccine achieves herd immunity in a population, those not vaccinated will receive the benefit of not contracting the target diseases while being spared the small risks of the vaccine. So the unvaccinated will have less mortality than the vaccinated, BUT only if nearly all children are vaccinated. The important thing to look at is child mortality before and after the vaccine was introduced, which went down dramatically. Unfortunately it is impossible to say how much of this reduced mortality was due to the vaccine and how much was due to other public health measures such as better nutrition and public hygiene that were instituted at the same time.

    The vaccine in the study is not the same as used in the west. It is a cheaper whole bacteria vaccine, rather than the toxin-based vaccine used in the west. One question--is the risk of the vaccine in this study due to the inherent design of the vaccine or are companies selling cheap vaccine to poor countries cutting corners? Could the vaccine be made safer and still protect?

  7. #707
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    OG, Two things some people I know won't shut up about are the health improvements being responsible for the declines in measles etc.
    The other is lack of double blind studies being done to "prove" vaccines are safe.

    Im pretty sure there will be no change with these people until their sweet darlings actually get measles and smallpox is killing people again

    All medical procedures have some risk. It's almost comical that vaccines are the ones they focus on

    Congress being inept at managing the pharmaceutical industry only adds fuel to their fire

  8. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    OG, Two things some people I know won't shut up about are the health improvements being responsible for the declines in measles etc.
    The other is lack of double blind studies being done to "prove" vaccines are safe.

    Im pretty sure there will be no change with these people until their sweet darlings actually get measles and smallpox is killing people again

    All medical procedures have some risk. It's almost comical that vaccines are the ones they focus on

    Congress being inept at managing the pharmaceutical industry only adds fuel to their fire
    90% or more of the improvement in life expectancy in the west over the last few centuries is due to vaccination, sanitary sewer systems, and obstetricians washing their hands. Add cleaner air and water in the last century or so and there's not much improvement attributable to $1M/ year wonder drugs (as in I wonder why we pay for them).

  9. #709
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    ^ And antibiotics.

  10. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Add cleaner water
    The Aqueduct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  11. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    90% or more of the improvement in life expectancy in the west over the last few centuries is due to vaccination, sanitary sewer systems, and obstetricians washing their hands. Add cleaner air and water in the last century or so and there's not much improvement attributable to $1M/ year wonder drugs (as in I wonder why we pay for them).
    Also less people smoking, I used to ski with the chief of surgery, buddy would write his cutting schedule on the back of a pack of players cigarettes and tack it over the scrub sink ... which is probably why he died so young in spite of being in great shape
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  12. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    ^ And antibiotics.
    Vaccines, hand hygiene, and water/sewage treatment are the big three

    Antibiotics is a distant 4th place at best might be beat out by sanitary food processing and refridgeration.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  13. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    The Aqueduct.
    Oh. Yeah, yeah they did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.

  14. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Vaccines, hand hygiene, and water/sewage treatment are the big three

    Antibiotics is a distant 4th place at best might be beat out by sanitary food processing and refridgeration.
    What are you disputing? Antibiotics have saved tens of millions of lives.

  15. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    What are you disputing? Antibiotics have saved tens of millions of lives.
    Did anyone clap?

  16. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate View Post
    Oh. Yeah, yeah they did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.
    But, besides that...

  17. #717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    What are you disputing? Antibiotics have saved tens of millions of lives.
    No doubt! and the big three have saved hundreds of millions each. That was my point. Scale. That's all.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  18. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    What are you disputing? Antibiotics have saved tens of millions of lives.
    Penicillin first became available in quantity in the early 1940's. A look at life expectancy charts graphs shows that increases in life expectancy slowed about that time.
    http://censuschannel.net/cc/news/lif...-year-old-1655
    As far as vaccination goes, the big one was smallpox.
    The biggest killer in the middle ages was plague which was largely conquered by dealing with rats. By the time antibiotics came around plague was rare.

    As far as the risk of vaccines--when we were traveling to the Amazon we were advised that the yellow fever vaccine was too risk at our age.

    From the standpoint of an individual parent the decision not to vaccinate their child is a rational one. If we place the welfare of our children foremost we let other people's children take the small risk of vaccination, which will also protect ours. That's why things like vaccination and other public health laws and regulations are necessary. Americans find it hard to accept that they may have to do things for the good of the many that might possibly have an adverse affect on themselves and their children--that they do not get to decide what is best for their children.

  19. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Plague
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  20. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    Did anyone clap?
    Antibiotics kept the clap away.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  21. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Penicillin first became available in quantity in the early 1940's. A look at life expectancy charts graphs shows that increases in life expectancy slowed about that time.
    http://censuschannel.net/cc/news/lif...-year-old-1655
    I don't see you associating antibiotics with a decrease in life expectancy so no clue what this is supposed to mean.

  22. #722
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    i’ve noticed a spike in monty python related tutorials
    having missed this comedy the first time i thank you!
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  23. #723
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  24. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Antibiotics kept the clap away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  25. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    I don't see you associating antibiotics with a decrease in life expectancy so no clue what this is supposed to mean.
    You misinterpret his comments. He is saying the that life expectancy continued to rise with the advent of antibiotics but not as steeply as the preceding years. The preceding years saw widespread water treatment implemented in American cities, vaccines for diphtheria (huge killer) pertussis and tetanus, and the implementation of the Pure Food and Drug Act.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

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