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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Maz, you seem confused by this sentence:



    So I’ll write it using the standard grammar used in a billion journal articles:



    Hope that helps.
    I like this joke both because it's funny and suggests you may have ready some of my work.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    'increases in life expectancy slowed' = 'decreasing rate of life expectancy' = C

    Attachment 284311
    At the risk of significant brain damage:

    I'm not really sure what this is supposed to show. OG was indeed referring to a line like C, though I think "decreasing rate of life expectancy" (which he never said) is poor language that isn't clearly a synonym of "increases in life expectancy slowed" without more explanation.

    But still, his point was that antibiotics didn't have as much to do with life expectancy as some of the other things mentioned, and pointed to a line like C. Saying, essentially, that if antibiotics were such a huge factor, we would expect A upon their introduction (people started living longer at a rate greater than what had been seen previously), but instead we got C (people were still living longer, but at a rate slower than what had been seen previously).

    What is it that you are arguing, what is it that you are fighting about?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  3. #753
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    Chicken fucking calculus.


  4. #754
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    so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    What is it that you are arguing, what is it that you are fighting about?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  5. #755
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    or is this the point where you realized that your earlier posts misunderstood things, so we devolve into jokes and memes so that you don't have to admit that you misunderstood?
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    'increases in life expectancy slowed' = 'decreasing rate of life expectancy' = C

    Attachment 284311
    This reminds me of the time I got high before a macro Econ exam and tried to justify my inversion of supply and demand lines. Comically stupid.

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    At the risk of significant brain damage:

    I'm not really sure what this is supposed to show. OG was indeed referring to a line like C, though I think "decreasing rate of life expectancy" (which he never said) is poor language that isn't clearly a synonym of "increases in life expectancy slowed" without more explanation.
    I'm using 'decreasing rate of life expectancy' as a synonym for 'increases in life expectancy slowed.' It's clear from the responses I should have qualified further and used 'decreasing rate of change of life expectancy' but I thought that was inferred. Otherwise, I would have used 'decreasing life expectancy.'


    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    But still, his point was that antibiotics didn't have as much to do with life expectancy as some of the other things mentioned, and pointed to a line like C. Saying, essentially, that if antibiotics were such a huge factor, we would expect A upon their introduction (people started living longer at a rate greater than what had been seen previously), but instead we got C (people were still living longer, but at a rate slower than what had been seen previously).
    Agree with first sentence. You can't say that about the second sentence, though. There are a thousand factors that could have impacted life expectancy around the time of widespread antibiotics introduction. And, I'm pretty sure OG would agree. Which was a secondary point after merely using two words to suggest antibiotics were an amazing discovery and have greatly contributed to reduced morbidity and mortality.

    In conclusion, summit has a hard-on for me and got bored playing cards while he was Greg Fockering around the hospital.

  8. #758
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    More chicken fucking functions. Sounds like they could have helped in econ class.


  9. #759
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    Maz, I was respectful in softballing your reading comprehension deficits... far nicer usually are with me... until you decided to split and double down on your thick headed flailing so that everyone can see your fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    In conclusion, summit has a hard-on for me and got bored playing cards while he was Greg Fockering around the hospital.
    So classy... nurses playing cards... how did that foot-in-mouth moment work out for the state senator? And you want to jump on that train?

    Now you feel persecuted? Poor baby. Maz, you are the only one here who is confused. Stop and think for once instead of pressing forward with your ego.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #760
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    I can't believe I started this thread 10 years ago. All vaccines. Kids are strong like bulls.
    Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Stop and think for once instead of pressing forward with your ego.
    What? This is TGR.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Maz, I was respectful in softballing your reading comprehension deficits... far nicer usually are with me... until you decided to split and double down on your thick headed flailing so that everyone can see your fail.
    Do you think you've proven me wrong or that I don't understand something discussed? I can be persuaded but have posted one and linked two graphs that explain or agree with my interpretation and my reply to Danno pretty well sums up my position. You've posted nothing that refutes it. What is your position? That antibiotics decreased rate of change of life expectancy?


    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    So classy... nurses playing cards... how did that foot-in-mouth moment work out for the state senator? And you want to jump on that train?

  13. #763
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  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    What is your position? That antibiotics decreased rate of change of life expectancy?
    Nobody has taken that position. That would be so dumb that only someone with shit reading comprehension would wonder if others had taken such a position.

    The data are clear: US life expectancy continue to improve with the widespread introduction of antibiotics, just not as rapidly as it rose in the years preceding where it was greatly driven by widespread water treatment, vaccination, improved public health measures and improvements in food/drug handling/purity and despite nutritional deficits of the depression and the outlier effects of spanish influenza and war.

    The above position I have stated in a previous post, but you once again failed to read... or at least comprehend.

    The only thing you were shown wrong on (by many, not just me) was your poor reading comprehension.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    'increases in life expectancy slowed' = 'decreasing rate of life expectancy' = C

    Attachment 284311
    Good job! Want a cookie?

  16. #766
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    before you breakout the cookies note that the USA is 31st in life expectancy just beating out Cuba
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  17. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Curious what peeps here think or know about the studies performed by peter aaby. Here’s one of his recent ones: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868131/
    The first thing to ask yourself is "why are those kids dying?" In other words, there are obviously serious environmental factors that drive a mortality rate of 4.8 in even the unvaccinated children!! And given that this is the case, one has to control for more than just body weight (table 2) in order to ensure the effect of vaccination isn't confounded. Another way to look at it, the mortality rate for vaccinated kids in other countries isn't even close to these values which means at a very high level that there are "other" effects that are influencing the numbers the author is attributing to the vaccine.

  18. #768
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    thanks. i appreciate folks have taken a hard look at the aaby article. i have not done this yet. anti-vaxers are using aaby's research to support their arguments.... the dude is supposedly the "non-specific effects of vaccines" guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Aaby

  19. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    thanks. i appreciate folks have taken a hard look at the aaby article. i have not done this yet. anti-vaxers are using aaby's research to support their arguments.... the dude is supposedly the "non-specific effects of vaccines" guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Aaby
    I started responding once and it got lost.

    Aaby is Absolutely PRO-vaccine, in fact if anything he is pro-LIVE vaccine vs. subunit formulations. He is a big proponent of BCG vaccination, OPV, and live Measles vaccines, etc
    but he is pointing out well known issues with the DTP vaccine as it was formulated with whole cell extract Bordatella Pertussis.

    So this variation of the DTP containing vaccine has isolated toxoid proteins from dipertheria and tetanus, and a whole cell extract of Pertussis, was widely in use from 1949-1990's in the states as well, and it was known to cause adverse effects such that the first DTaP was made in the 1970's and first used in the early 80's, but didn't get FDA approval until the mid nineties, after which the further purified acellular extract (cell wall removed) replaced the whole cell extract version. The DTaP is used in the majority of the world, but it is easier/ cheaper to not remove the cell wall so there are vaccine makers in India and Brazil that supply cheaper versions to nations in Africa, SE asia, and S america. But severe reactions in some people and some vaccine preps, and even deaths following administration, were known at the outset.

    But the big thing to note here (and someone correct me if I'm wrong*) Bordatella pertussis is the only vaccine given for what are known as gram Negative bacteria. This is significant because all Gram (-) bacteria contain LPS/ LOS molecules, many of which are also known as endotoxins, that comprise a major portion of the outer cell wall.

    Endotoxins cause rampant non-specific immune activation and can cause sepsis and organ failure. While of LPS of Pertussis is not as potent as say E coli, it will still cause a whole mess of non-specific immune activation.

    HiB is gram negative too- but that vaccine doesn't use a bacterial extract, but putified HiB polysacchride conjugate.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  20. #770
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    Wut
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  21. #771
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    Where's spats when we need someone to explain vaccines to mofro.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  22. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    I started responding once and it got lost.

    Aaby is Absolutely PRO-vaccine, in fact if anything he is pro-LIVE vaccine vs. subunit formulations. He is a big proponent of BCG vaccination, OPV, and live Measles vaccines, etc
    but he is pointing out well known issues with the DTP vaccine as it was formulated with whole cell extract Bordatella Pertussis.

    So this variation of the DTP containing vaccine has isolated toxoid proteins from dipertheria and tetanus, and a whole cell extract of Pertussis, was widely in use from 1949-1990's in the states as well, and it was known to cause adverse effects such that the first DTaP was made in the 1970's and first used in the early 80's, but didn't get FDA approval until the mid nineties, after which the further purified acellular extract (cell wall removed) replaced the whole cell extract version. The DTaP is used in the majority of the world, but it is easier/ cheaper to not remove the cell wall so there are vaccine makers in India and Brazil that supply cheaper versions to nations in Africa, SE asia, and S america. But severe reactions in some people and some vaccine preps, and even deaths following administration, were known at the outset.

    But the big thing to note here (and someone correct me if I'm wrong*) Bordatella pertussis is the only vaccine given for what are known as gram Negative bacteria. This is significant because all Gram (-) bacteria contain LPS/ LOS molecules, many of which are also known as endotoxins, that comprise a major portion of the outer cell wall.

    Endotoxins cause rampant non-specific immune activation and can cause sepsis and organ failure. While of LPS of Pertussis is not as potent as say E coli, it will still cause a whole mess of non-specific immune activation.

    HiB is gram negative too- but that vaccine doesn't use a bacterial extract, but putified HiB polysacchride conjugate.

    Mofo knows his shit. Reactogenicity due to LPS in gram-negative, whole cell prep was a major cause of acute neurotox and occasionally death. Lots of studies explored changing the lipid composition of LPS until the cell free preps came along. Ironically, LPS is so potent that it's often explored as an adjuvant for a broad class of vaccines and even cancer therapies.

  23. #773
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    Yo yo. Sweet responses! Cheers!

  24. #774
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    Goddamn science nerds. So, for the non-nerd/ELI15 explanation: LPS and LOS are acronyms for molecules (lipopolysaccharide and lipooligosaccharide) on the surface of cells - our immune systems react to them pretty avidly, sometimes to our detriment, with potentially significant side effects, up to and including (very rarely) death. Obviously the presence of these LPS and LOS in vaccines can be a Bad Thing, as a potentially significant cause of side effects. The conundrum is of course that immune system reactivity is generally how a vaccine becomes effective. So, some of the older vaccines had a lot of LPS/LOS and caused significant side effects, which the antivax crusaders cite as reasons to implicate ALL vaccines as Bad Things.

  25. #775
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    Vaccinations and autism?

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The toga party is Greek, not Roman. Just sayin'.
    You are wrong. Togas were Roman.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toga


    Edit: unless you are saying Frat Party = Greek ?
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

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