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Thread: Vaccinations and autism?
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05-31-2019, 12:21 PM #751Registered User
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05-31-2019, 12:23 PM #752
I'm using 'decreasing rate of life expectancy' as a synonym for 'increases in life expectancy slowed.' It's clear from the responses I should have qualified further and used 'decreasing rate of change of life expectancy' but I thought that was inferred. Otherwise, I would have used 'decreasing life expectancy.'
Agree with first sentence. You can't say that about the second sentence, though. There are a thousand factors that could have impacted life expectancy around the time of widespread antibiotics introduction. And, I'm pretty sure OG would agree. Which was a secondary point after merely using two words to suggest antibiotics were an amazing discovery and have greatly contributed to reduced morbidity and mortality.
In conclusion, summit has a hard-on for me and got bored playing cards while he was Greg Fockering around the hospital.
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05-31-2019, 12:41 PM #753
More chicken fucking functions. Sounds like they could have helped in econ class.
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05-31-2019, 01:07 PM #754
Maz, I was respectful in softballing your reading comprehension deficits... far nicer usually are with me... until you decided to split and double down on your thick headed flailing so that everyone can see your fail.
So classy... nurses playing cards... how did that foot-in-mouth moment work out for the state senator? And you want to jump on that train?
Now you feel persecuted? Poor baby. Maz, you are the only one here who is confused. Stop and think for once instead of pressing forward with your ego.Originally Posted by blurred
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05-31-2019, 01:10 PM #755
I can't believe I started this thread 10 years ago. All vaccines. Kids are strong like bulls.
Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well.
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05-31-2019, 01:53 PM #756
Do you think you've proven me wrong or that I don't understand something discussed? I can be persuaded but have posted one and linked two graphs that explain or agree with my interpretation and my reply to Danno pretty well sums up my position. You've posted nothing that refutes it. What is your position? That antibiotics decreased rate of change of life expectancy?
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05-31-2019, 01:54 PM #757
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05-31-2019, 02:52 PM #758
Nobody has taken that position. That would be so dumb that only someone with shit reading comprehension would wonder if others had taken such a position.
The data are clear: US life expectancy continue to improve with the widespread introduction of antibiotics, just not as rapidly as it rose in the years preceding where it was greatly driven by widespread water treatment, vaccination, improved public health measures and improvements in food/drug handling/purity and despite nutritional deficits of the depression and the outlier effects of spanish influenza and war.
The above position I have stated in a previous post, but you once again failed to read... or at least comprehend.
The only thing you were shown wrong on (by many, not just me) was your poor reading comprehension.Originally Posted by blurred
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05-31-2019, 03:04 PM #759Banned
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05-31-2019, 03:14 PM #760Registered User
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before you breakout the cookies note that the USA is 31st in life expectancy just beating out Cuba
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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05-31-2019, 03:57 PM #761
The first thing to ask yourself is "why are those kids dying?" In other words, there are obviously serious environmental factors that drive a mortality rate of 4.8 in even the unvaccinated children!! And given that this is the case, one has to control for more than just body weight (table 2) in order to ensure the effect of vaccination isn't confounded. Another way to look at it, the mortality rate for vaccinated kids in other countries isn't even close to these values which means at a very high level that there are "other" effects that are influencing the numbers the author is attributing to the vaccine.
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05-31-2019, 04:16 PM #762
thanks. i appreciate folks have taken a hard look at the aaby article. i have not done this yet. anti-vaxers are using aaby's research to support their arguments.... the dude is supposedly the "non-specific effects of vaccines" guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Aaby
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05-31-2019, 04:54 PM #763
I started responding once and it got lost.
Aaby is Absolutely PRO-vaccine, in fact if anything he is pro-LIVE vaccine vs. subunit formulations. He is a big proponent of BCG vaccination, OPV, and live Measles vaccines, etc
but he is pointing out well known issues with the DTP vaccine as it was formulated with whole cell extract Bordatella Pertussis.
So this variation of the DTP containing vaccine has isolated toxoid proteins from dipertheria and tetanus, and a whole cell extract of Pertussis, was widely in use from 1949-1990's in the states as well, and it was known to cause adverse effects such that the first DTaP was made in the 1970's and first used in the early 80's, but didn't get FDA approval until the mid nineties, after which the further purified acellular extract (cell wall removed) replaced the whole cell extract version. The DTaP is used in the majority of the world, but it is easier/ cheaper to not remove the cell wall so there are vaccine makers in India and Brazil that supply cheaper versions to nations in Africa, SE asia, and S america. But severe reactions in some people and some vaccine preps, and even deaths following administration, were known at the outset.
But the big thing to note here (and someone correct me if I'm wrong*) Bordatella pertussis is the only vaccine given for what are known as gram Negative bacteria. This is significant because all Gram (-) bacteria contain LPS/ LOS molecules, many of which are also known as endotoxins, that comprise a major portion of the outer cell wall.
Endotoxins cause rampant non-specific immune activation and can cause sepsis and organ failure. While of LPS of Pertussis is not as potent as say E coli, it will still cause a whole mess of non-specific immune activation.
HiB is gram negative too- but that vaccine doesn't use a bacterial extract, but putified HiB polysacchride conjugate.Move upside and let the man go through...
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05-31-2019, 05:55 PM #764
Wut
"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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05-31-2019, 07:00 PM #765
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05-31-2019, 07:14 PM #766
Mofo knows his shit. Reactogenicity due to LPS in gram-negative, whole cell prep was a major cause of acute neurotox and occasionally death. Lots of studies explored changing the lipid composition of LPS until the cell free preps came along. Ironically, LPS is so potent that it's often explored as an adjuvant for a broad class of vaccines and even cancer therapies.
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05-31-2019, 07:29 PM #767
Yo yo. Sweet responses! Cheers!
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05-31-2019, 07:42 PM #768
Goddamn science nerds. So, for the non-nerd/ELI15 explanation: LPS and LOS are acronyms for molecules (lipopolysaccharide and lipooligosaccharide) on the surface of cells - our immune systems react to them pretty avidly, sometimes to our detriment, with potentially significant side effects, up to and including (very rarely) death. Obviously the presence of these LPS and LOS in vaccines can be a Bad Thing, as a potentially significant cause of side effects. The conundrum is of course that immune system reactivity is generally how a vaccine becomes effective. So, some of the older vaccines had a lot of LPS/LOS and caused significant side effects, which the antivax crusaders cite as reasons to implicate ALL vaccines as Bad Things.
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05-31-2019, 08:35 PM #769
Vaccinations and autism?
You are wrong. Togas were Roman.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toga
Edit: unless you are saying Frat Party = Greek ?"Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin
"Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters
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05-31-2019, 09:12 PM #770Funky But Chic
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Was there even such a thing as Toga Parties or was that just in Animal House?
I mean, wtf, togas? why?
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05-31-2019, 09:57 PM #771Registered User
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Vaccinations and autism?
Last edited by mcski; 06-01-2019 at 08:40 AM.
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05-31-2019, 10:17 PM #772
The reference in the youtube clip is clearly to the Toga Party, ie Greek. Whether actual Greeks wore togas is irrelevant. I don't see why this has to be so difficult. As to whether frats had toga parties before Animal House, who here was in a frat before Animal House came out?
It is worth pointing out that the Romans did give us an excellent mathematical system; if it hadn't been for the goddamn Ay-rabs we could have lived happily with no mathematics higher than arithmetic (I guess we still would have been stuck with geometry but that's all pictures so it's ok.)
As far as vaccines go, I think I'd better get out of the big boys' way
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05-31-2019, 10:25 PM #773Registered User
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Animal House came out in 78. Surely one of the retired dentists here was in a frat prior to that (looking at you Goat). Were they called Chiton parties?
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05-31-2019, 10:58 PM #774
Every picture of Aristotle I've ever seen, he was wearing a toga, and he was Greek (I think), so that clearly means that togas are Greek.
"fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
"She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
"everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy
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05-31-2019, 11:17 PM #775Registered User
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Vaccinations and autism?
Those pics must have been from a frat party. Greeks didn't wear togas
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