Vaccinations and autism?

[TheSilverSurfer]

And if you haven't seen your own child having a febrile seizure and you try to tell me that it's no big deal, then you can get bent. It's one of the more frightening things that has happened to me as a father. Watching my child's eyes glaze over as his body stiffened after mumbling incoherently.

It's frightening, and in some cases can lead to long term complications. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/CON-20021016

So, in summary, the CDC says that one of the reasons to fill our kids with a bunch of vaccines at the same time is to save parents time and money. The CDC also says that taking many vaccines at once can cause febrile seizures. The Mayo Clinic says that febrile seizures can lead to long term complications.

And DasBlunt is an idiot for not wanting to follow the standard vax schedule? If you can afford it then it should be your right as a parent to decide to space out the vaccinations if for anything, just to lower the chance of a febrile seizure.

[Game Over]

Not much to add other than this thread is a great confidence booster.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

And if you haven't seen your own child having a febrile seizure and you try to tell me that it's no big deal, then you can get bent. It's one of the more frightening things that has happened to me as a father. Watching my child's eyes glaze over as his body stiffened after mumbling incoherently.

It's frightening, and in some cases can lead to long term complications. http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/CON-20021016

So, in summary, the CDC says that one of the reasons to fill our kids with a bunch of vaccines at the same time is to save parents time and money. The CDC also says that taking many vaccines at once can cause febrile seizures. The Mayo Clinic says that febrile seizures can lead to long term complications.

And DasBlunt is an idiot for not wanting to follow the standard vax schedule? If you can afford it then it should be your right as a parent to decide to space out the vaccinations if for anything, just to lower the chance of a febrile seizure.

The linked information you posted didn't say taking many vaccines at once can cause febrile seizures, it said sometimes certain combinations may cause febrile seizures. It also said giving more vaccines at once may lead to less emotional trauma for a child.

Managing a child with a fever requires attention, giving the right meds and cooling them properly to avoid the possibility of seizures.

[TheSilverSurfer]

The linked information you posted didn't say taking many vaccines at once can cause febrile seizures, it said sometimes certain combinations may cause febrile seizures. It also said giving more vaccines at once may lead to less emotional trauma for a child.

Managing a child with a fever requires attention, giving the right meds and cooling them properly to avoid the possibility of seizures.

Febrile seizures don't always happen from a fever. Our little guy was fine. Then woke up in the middle of the night babbling nonsensically and had seizure in my wife's arms.

[iceman]

Febrile seizures are a fairly common thing in kids, my little guy (a strong healthy grown man of 22 now) had two, widely spaced, nowhere near any immunizations/vaccintions. Shit happens. Do not confuse correlation with causation.

Do not confuse correlation with causation.
Do not confuse correlation with causation.

I'll keep typing that if it will help.

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc" is literally -literally- the number 1 logical fallacy in human history. And you're all in. Okey doke.

[klar]

Do not confuse correlation with causation.
Do not confuse correlation with causation.

Everyone knows this excellent resource on that topic right?

[iceman]

Everyone knows this excellent resource on that topic right?

I hadn't seen it before but thanks that's awesome.

[TheSilverSurfer]

Febrile seizures are a fairly common thing in kids, my little guy (a strong healthy grown man of 22 now) had two, widely spaced, nowhere near any immunizations/vaccintions. Shit happens. Do not confuse correlation with causation.

Do not confuse correlation with causation.
Do not confuse correlation with causation.

I'll keep typing that if it will help.

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc" is literally -literally- the number 1 logical fallacy in human history. And you're all in. Okey doke.

There was no correlation between vaccinations and his seizure.

The CDC acknowledges that there is causation between combining some vaccines and an increased risk of febrile seizures.

[DBdude]

vaccinations also can prevent the occurrence of ferbile seizures by reducing the risk of diseases prevented by vaccination that cause fever

[summit]

There was no correlation between vaccinations and his seizure.

The CDC acknowledges that there is causation between combining some vaccines and an increased risk of febrile seizures.

Repeating your claim doesn't suddenly make it true. Please cite?

[DBdude]

it is on the cdc web site, I checked

febrile seizures are not that big a deal. scary for parents...

[Danno]

Repeating your claim doesn't suddenly make it true. Please cite?

Just googling his obviously quoted language, the cite is here: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...-immunity.html

And it says exactly what he said; it appears to indicate causation and not just correlation. Still, to read that page and come away with the impression that you should not vaccinate on the recommended schedule, or that you should not vaccinate at all, is baffling to me.

[summit]

Just googling his obviously quoted language, the cite is here: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...-immunity.html

And it says exactly what he said; it appears to indicate causation and not just correlation. Still, to read that page and come away with the impression that you should not vaccinate on the recommended schedule, or that you should not vaccinate at all, is baffling to me.

It doesn't say that it increases the risk of seizure over getting them separately.

[Danno]

It doesn't say that it increases the risk of seizure over getting them separately.

Technically no, and you obviously are far more of an expert on the science. But my profession is language, and this is what it said:

Sometimes, certain combinations of vaccines given together can cause fever, and occasionally febrile seizures

While it technically doesn't use the magic words of "increased risk of seizure over getting them separately", that is the directly implied result of the quoted sentence. If there is causation, if getting combinations of vaccines together causes seizure, that is saying that getting them separately does not create the same causation. That sentence says quite clearly that it is the combination that creates causation. It stands to follow directly from the statement that giving them separately does not, or does not as often. And from that flows the concept that the combination increases the risk of seizure.

It's obvious from the page that it is a minor risk, and that the seizures are not dangerous, and that the evidence clearly points in favor of getting vaccinated on the schedule they recommend. But you cannot deny the meaning of the language that is there simply because it doesn't have the magic words that you are looking for.

[summit]

Fair enough, I'll dig into it later when I have some time (these statements usually come from much longer ACIP papers).

[Mofro261]

The issue is with the MMR or MMRV vaccine. Approx 3/10,000 kids develop febrile seizures 6-10 days following vaccination.

By in large febrile seizures in children are caused by viral infections- influenza, rhinovirus, adenovirus, and enterovirus. An australian study in 2015 showed 60% PCR positivity for one of these viruses in infants 10-24mos with post vaccination febrile seizures. Correlation and causation.

[detrusor]

Or, you could treat their fever and none of this is an issue....

[DasBlunt]

you guys are making no sense.

Newborns, right out of the womb being required to get Hep B shots? Completely retarded medical logic. Also implying because I don't follow big pharma's current recommendations that I am somehow wrong?

You guys lead some very sad lives owing to your expectations towards complete sheep mentality, and I imagine your profession is dependent on the medical industry. That is not logic.... it is circular echo chamber logic.

[stfu&gbtw]

you guys are making no sense.

Newborns, right out of the womb being required to get Hep B shots? Completely retarded medical logic. Also implying because I don't follow big pharma's current recommendations that I am somehow wrong?

You guys lead some very sad lives owing to your expectations towards complete sheep mentality, and I imagine your profession is dependent on the medical industry. That is not logic.... it is circular echo chamber logic.

I don't think anyone was implying you're wrong because you don't follow the recommended schedule... it was implied that you are wrong and you don't follow the recommended schedule. You're not being criticised - you're being presented as evidence.

[old goat]

you guys are making no sense.

Newborns, right out of the womb being required to get Hep B shots? Completely retarded medical logic. Also implying because I don't follow big pharma's current recommendations that I am somehow wrong?

You guys lead some very sad lives owing to your expectations towards complete sheep mentality, and I imagine your profession is dependent on the medical industry. That is not logic.... it is circular echo chamber logic.

http://www.immunize.org/catg.d/p4110.pdf

It occurs to me that the people who have the least actual knowledge on the subject and the weakest arguments are the ones who resort to name calling, conspiracy theories, accusations of greed, ad hominem attacks, and the like. The problem is that there are enough real greed and conspiracies but the real stuff gets lost in the noise produced by people like you.

[Danno]

you guys are making no sense.

Newborns, right out of the womb being required to get Hep B shots? Completely retarded medical logic. Also implying because I don't follow big pharma's current recommendations that I am somehow wrong?

You guys lead some very sad lives owing to your expectations towards complete sheep mentality, and I imagine your profession is dependent on the medical industry. That is not logic.... it is circular echo chamber logic.

Got any thoughts on dam engineering?

[hutash]

Got any thoughts on dam engineering?

Just what he has read on the internet, so in others words...an expert.

[skaredshtles]

Just what he has read on the internet, so in others words...an expert.

[DasBlunt]

I don't think anyone was implying you're wrong because you don't follow the recommended schedule... it was implied that you are wrong and you don't follow the recommended schedule. You're not being criticised - you're being presented as evidence.

remember that churches, not hospitals, are better for humanity.

Saying i am wrong without evidence is worthless. The schedule is for maximum profit for each manufacturer. Hepatitis B shot for newborns is just retarded.

The oath has been dead for a while now and you guys are part of the problem. Greed and willful ignorance.

[skaredshtles]

remember that churches, not hospitals, are better for humanity.

Saying i am wrong without evidence is worthless. The schedule is for maximum profit for each manufacturer. Hepatitis B shot for newborns is just retarded.

And the evidence for your belief?