Vaccinations and autism?

[Dexter Rutecki]

There's no way to rationally approach people who believe something like that and are in that sort of situation. Sad.

[ILAP]

Our 6-year old grandson is autistic. Fortunately he is high functioning but he has the communication skills of a 3-year old at best. We know the MMR shot he had was the root cause of his becoming autistic. They still use a small component of mercury in the shots today. Makes sense to me... heavy metal into small child's brain. Now how could that possibly affect any little 6-month old? But I've seen it first hand. If he was predisposed to autism to begin with, then he was fucked right from the beginning once he got his MMR shot. A doctor and his attorney wife sued in behalf of their little girl and won based on the question of the MMR shot, so don't run around thinking every child in the world should automatically get their vaccine shots without question.

[iceman]

Nice fourth post, you moron. You don't know shit.

[ILAP]

Yeah. Right.
http://jcn.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/22/11/1308

[Dexter Rutecki]

We know the MMR shot he had was the root cause of his becoming autistic.

Then you know something that no one else in the world knows, and something that numerous studies have concluded is not true.

Also, the link you provided does not, in any way, show that vaccinations are related to cases of autism.

[ILAP]

OK. Believe what you want. It's a free world. But you need to reread the information from the link in my previous post... "We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder."

Yeah, that doesn't mean MMR shots definitively cause all or even some young children to become autistic. BUT... don't be ignorant and believe that shots are also definitvely exclusive of any cause and effect related to autism either. I have no doubt there are numerous reasons why autism in young boys is now 1 in 90 and for young children overall it is 1 in 150. I can tell you fom personal experience and I hope you and your family never have to go through it, but I saw a 6-month old little boy go from very active to very inactive within just 3 weeks of having an MMR shot and the resulting fever. Maybe there was something in the water, maybe the mailman forgot to leave mail that day, maybe you walked by the house and exhaled your brain cells... There is just as much credible information out there questioning the use of MMR shots with a mercury component at an early age as there is for vaccinating at an early age.

MMR (mumps, measles, rubella). How many kids are going to actually die from mumps if they don't have a mumps vaccination? How many kids will actually die from measles if they don't have a measles shot? Rubella is German measles - so how many kids will die from that if they don't have a vaccination shot? Whatever your research or guesstimate is, it can't be anything compared to the insane lives that autistic children and their parents go through. By the way, they don't tell you that you can have these shots taken individually and without the mercury component. So I'm not saying not to have the vaccinations given, just have them done in a smarter way to minimize the effect just in case there is a true cause and effect for whatever population of children are at risk.

[Dexter Rutecki]

OK. Believe what you want. It's a free world. But you need to reread the information from the link in my previous post... "We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder."

Fine, you believe what you like, but I read your damn link (including the part you quoted, for some reason) and it still doesn't prove what you want it to.

In fact, no one has been able to prove what you (wrongly) believe, and controlled, scientific studies have proven the opposite. The only study I'm aware of that found the causal link you believe in was later withdrawn because it was shown to be wrong. So the only question is, WHY do you believe something that has no basis in fact? Is there a religious explanation? Or is it just a desire for some cause to explain what has happened? Because it doesn't make sense.


Here's what the CDC has to say--if you're in doubt, I suggest you check this and follow the links:



Basic Information

* The MMR vaccine protects against dangerous, even deadly, diseases.


* Real risks of MMR vaccine are rare.


* Most people who get the MMR vaccine do not have any problems, or "adverse events."


* The most common adverse events following the MMR vaccine are pain at the vaccination site, fever, a mild rash, and swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck.


* Because signs of autism may appear at around the same time children receive the MMR vaccine, some parents may worry that the vaccine causes autism.


* Carefully performed scientific studies have found no relationship between MMR vaccine and autism.


* CDC continues to recommend two doses of MMR vaccine for all children.

Additional Facts

* In 1998, a study of autistic children raised the question of a connection between the MMR vaccine and autism.


o This study had a number of limitations. For example, the study was very small, involving only 12 children. These are too few cases to make any generalizations about the causes of autism. In addition, the researchers suggested that MMR vaccination caused bowel problems in the children, which then led to autism. However, in some of the children studied, symptoms of autism appeared before symptoms of bowel disease.


o In 2004, 10 of the study's 13 authors retracted the study's interpretation. The authors stated that the data were not able to establish a causal link between MMR vaccine and autism.

* Other larger studies have found no relationship between MMR vaccine and autism. For example, researchers in the United Kingdom studied the records of 498 children with autism born between 1979 and 1998. They found:


o The percentage of children with autism who received MMR vaccine was the same as the percentage of unaffected children in the region who received MMR vaccine.


o There was no difference in the age of diagnosis of autism in vaccinated and unvaccinated children.


o The onset of "regressive" symptoms of autism did not occur within 2, 4, or 6 months of receiving the MMR vaccine.

* Groups of experts, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, agree that MMR vaccine is not responsible for recent increases in the number of children with autism. In 2004, a report by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) concluded that there is no association between autism and MMR vaccine, or vaccines that contain thimerosal as a preservative.


* A Vaccine Safety Datalink study found that the MMR vaccine rarely causes low blood platelet counts in children, which is not considered a serious complication. The study found no evidence of any serious complications.


* A recent study found that measles outbreaks can occur in communities with a high number of unvaccinated people, and that maintaining high overall MMR vaccination rates is needed to continue to limit the spread of measles.


* No published scientific evidence shows any benefit in separating the combination MMR vaccine into three individual shots.

More Information

* CDC's Autism Information Center
* Autism Information from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
* Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)
* Frequently Asked Questions about Vaccines and Autism from CDC's Autism Information Center
* National Immunization Hotline:
o English (800) 232-2522
o Spanish (800) 232-0233
* MMR Vaccine Information Statement
* MMR Vaccine Questions and Answers for Health Care Professionals
* Articles about the MMR Vaccine Published in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report

Other Organizations

* American Academy of Pediatrics*
* American Medical Association*
* Autism Society of America*
* Immunization Action Coalition: MMR vaccine does not cause autism*
* National Network for Immunization Information*
* The MMR Decision Aid* from the National Centre for Immunisation Research & Surveillance, Australia

*Links to non-Federal organizations found at this site are provided solely as a service to our users. These links do not constitute an endorsement of these organizations or their programs by CDC or the Federal Government, and none should be inferred. CDC is not responsible for the content of the individual organization Web pages found at these links.
Page last reviewed: August 22, 2008
Page last updated: August 22, 2008

[assgasorgrass]

We used the "The Vaccine Book" by Robert W. Sears. It was very informative.

[ILAP]

OK, Dexter. I give up! You are intent on convincing me there is absolutely zero link between, no chance in hell and pigs will fly before any little kid will ever become autistic as a result of an MMR shot with a mercury component - so I am now a believer.

[iceman]

OK, Dexter. I give up! You are intent on convincing me there is absolutely zero link between, no chance in hell and pigs will fly before any little kid will ever become autistic as a result of an MMR shot with a mercury component - so I am now a believer.

Good. Now shut the fuck up and go away forever you inbred creationist moron, and never come back.

Merry Christmas to us.

[ptavv]

The mercury by-product of thimerosal is ethyl-mercury. The compound which has been shown to cause mercury and other CNS problems is methyl-mercury (or just regular mercury).

Ethyl-mercury cannot pass through the blood brain barrier and cannot affect the CNS.

It's excreted in the urine with a half life of under 12 hours.

Science wins again.

[Tri-Ungulate]

Please tell me then, how can I convince my sister in law, who has "done a lot of (internet) research" on links and other associated risks, that she's actually a libratardian? I mean she goes on VRAN and gets scared...

Maybe she's not really a libertarian, but there's a strong libertarian impulse behind many of the websites promulgated by the anti-vaccination "lobby." It's a "you don't tell me what to do with my kid" thang. Kinda like the John Birch Society contention that fluoride in the water is some Commie plot to introduce a foreign substance into our precious bodily fluids.

As ILAP aptly demonstrates, there's plenty of bad info on teh Interwebz re: Bad Things That Will Happen To Your Child if You Vaccinate Them. I'm really sorry ILAP's grandkid ended up with the condition, and I can understand his/her impulse to blame it on something, but solid data just isn't there, and it isn't for a lack of investigations.

There are theoretical concerns regarding future immunity/autoimmunity etc,. related to vaccinations, but these remain theoretical, and unproven.

Some interesting reading regarding the Lancet article I mentioned that was found to be fraudulent and eventually retracted is here, by a pretty good medical journalist. Deer sometimes gets a bit journalistically melodramatic, but he does his homework and is right more often than wrong.

There's another article by Deer that also relates to the genesis of immunization scares here.

[Duffman]

How many kids are going to actually die from mumps if they don't have a mumps vaccination?

Unfortunately its this type of misinformation, often spread by shady plaintiffs lawyers and grasped onto for dear life by (somewhat understandably) desperate parents looking for an answer, that will once again cause this number to get very high. We are so generationally far removed from the mortality and morbidity that these now preventable diseases once reaped on children. The diseases that are now preventable by vaccination wreaked havoc on kids in the past.

Even though the vaccine autism link has no real proof, lets say for arguments sake that hypothetically there was a very slight increased risk of autism with the MMR vaccine. Even in this case, the relative risk of to a given child who was not vaccinated would be far higher from infectious disease that the vaccine could prevent then the slight increased risk of autism.

The other thing to remember about measles in particular, is that there is a herd immunity going on here. Since the majority of the children with rational parents are immunized, the risk to an unvaccinated individual in that cohort is quite low. This is why some people think not vaccinating is alright. They talk to other parents who are anti vaccination, and since their kids never got measles, what do they have to worry about. However, if a critical mass of children in a community are not immunized, then the risk of contracting measles skyrockets. This happens from time to time in small insular communities.

[Jim S]

not vaccinating for fear of autism = http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=143498
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[Mazderati]

http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

[old goat]

the vaccine wars are proof that liberals can be just as stupid and ignorant as conservatives.

[AK47bp]

Everyone knows it's the chemtrails

[irul&ublo]

http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

But Donny thinks they do

[boarddad]

How did this old thread get unearthed?

Get your pediatrician on speed dial, then do a search for "whooping cough" on You Tube. I'll take the under on an Over/under of 10 seconds before you push the speed dial button. That shit is scary for real. Risk of autism is not.

[stfu&gbtw]

I heard you can vaccinate against autism with a simple solution of drain cleaner, lead paint, asbestos, and antifreeze. Can be done in the comfort of your own home, no physician required!

[abraham]

I heard you can vaccinate against autism with a simple solution of drain cleaner, lead paint, asbestos, and antifreeze. Can be done in the comfort of your own home, no physician required!

How do you vaccinate against being a Colorado local?

[stfu&gbtw]

How do you vaccinate against being a Colorado local?

Drink normal priced beer, shave, vote for education and transportation funding, ski on weekdays.

[Tele-axel]

The only "study" that connected vaccines to autism has been proven false so many times its ridiculous. The person who wrote it has admitted it was all a lie. The side effects of not having vaccines are far more likely & far more damaging than any potential side effects of vaccines.
In short VACCINATE YOUR KID(S)!!

[JimmyCarter]

I assume the thread bump is to lure dbs out of hiding?

[iceman]

I assume the thread bump is to lure dbs out of hiding?

He moved to Panama. I have to assume that he's lecturing some poor Panamanian dude about how to be more Panamanian as we speak.