Vaccinations and autism?

**scoober** · 06-20-2008, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

Specious argument, IMO. There are also 100 year olds out there who have smoked their entire lives.

"I have this rock that magically keeps tigers away."
"How does it work?"
"Well, you don't see any tigers around do you?"

I can't say anything better than 13 did.

And come on people, whose knows what's better for your kid's health: your Pediatricians or Jenny McCarthy?

**Tippster** · 06-20-2008, 01:26 PM

Focus knows better.

Do you really think you can make an informed decision from reading jargon-laden literature without a degree in medicine? Good on you - you're clearly smarter than the average bear.

There is absolutely no reason NOT to get your kids immunized. There could be reason to stagger out the immunizations if you're willing to go to the Dr. more often... mainly that the kids don't feel like you just beat them w/a hammer. Talk to your Doc about pacing/timing.

Oh, in DC you need a Dr.s note declaring your kids are current on certain vaccines to be able to send them to public school. I'm OK with that.

**focus** · 06-20-2008, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

Focus knows better.

Do you really think you can make an informed decision from reading jargon-laden literature without a degree in medicine? Good on you - you're clearly smarter than the average bear.

There is absolutely no reason NOT to get your kids immunized. There could be reason to stagger out the immunizations if you're willing to go to the Dr. more often... mainly that the kids don't feel like you just beat them w/a hammer. Talk to your Doc about pacing/timing.

Oh, in DC you need a Dr.s note declaring your kids are current on certain vaccines to be able to send them to public school. I'm OK with that.

We read to understand the issues and the fears, not to understand the medicine. We then asked the pediatrician about our concerns. Interestingly enough, the immunization regimen we're on is the same that her kids are on. I'm not saying educate yourself to be smarter than your doctor, just educate yourself so that you can ask the right questions. My kids probably have/will have all the same immunizations that yours do/will.

I'm also saying that you should learn about what's behind the hysteria before giving it too much of your attention. If you're too lazy to do that you should probably go with what any expert (doesn't matter which, you aren't qualified to vet them) tells you to do.

Which leads me to: choose your experts carefully. They're not all brilliant, and they aren't all right.

Christ -- I'm advocating a reasoned approach here, you fucking ninnies.

**tex1230** · 06-20-2008, 01:50 PM

as stated before, the rise in autism has nothing to do with vaccinations and everything to do with improved diagnostic techniques and a broadening in what is included in the spectrum of autism related conditions. 3 people in my extended family have been diagnosed with an autism spectrum condition that would never have been diagnosed 20 or 30 years ago. If you look at the diagnostic guidelines, I'm pretty sure more of us (my father and myself, among others) probably have this same condition, but it was not recognized by the majority of doctors when we were children.

Hugh Conway · 06-20-2008, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by focus

You're a fucking idiot, hugh.

I'm not the one thinking I have a reasoned approach when you know jack shit about what you are dealing with

you have no medical background, you can't really learn what's behind the hysteria.

Now why don't you ask this group of "experts" to solve your next idiotic problem

**Mofro261** · 06-20-2008, 02:04 PM

I'll admit to being slightly biased since my work primarily involves vaccinology.

I had no hesitation in getting both my kids vaccinated. Please get your kids vaccinated, risks associated with vaccination are far less than the risks associated with the disease state.

As for the timing, yeah it's hard to watch your little one get poked with needles. But it's even harder to delay those injections until he's old enough to express his fears to you before getting poked.

**focus** · 06-20-2008, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

I'm not the one thinking I have a reasoned approach when you know jack shit about what you are dealing with

you have no medical background, you can't really learn what's behind the hysteria.

Now why don't you ask this group of "experts" to solve your next idiotic problem

Right. It's impossible. You should blindly do whatever "they" tell you to do. If the "theys" differ, go with the side with the most "theys".

And I will, thanks. I've gotten lots of good ideas and solutions to such important, technical issues as gardening, minor car repair, and squirrel removal from the diversity of my friends, family, this forum, and google.

Would you like fries with your snide?

Hugh Conway · 06-20-2008, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by focus

Right. It's impossible. You should blindly do whatever "they" tell you to do. If the "theys" differ, go with the side with the most "theys".

If you don't have knowledge in the subject, yes, that's exactly what you are doing.

**counterfeitfake** · 06-20-2008, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by AsheanMT

Worried about that too. We opted out of many of the immunizations. I've met a few people who have NEVER had an immunization their whole life and are just fine.

I bet you've met more people who have had immunizations and are fine.

**smitchell333** · 06-20-2008, 02:43 PM

No, no, never get immunized or go to the doctor. From what I've heard 100% of those who are immunized will die eventually. Stop the madness of immunization.

**Tippster** · 06-20-2008, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by focus

We read to understand the issues and the fears, not to understand the medicine. We then asked the pediatrician about our concerns. Interestingly enough, the immunization regimen we're on is the same that her kids are on. I'm not saying educate yourself to be smarter than your doctor, just educate yourself so that you can ask the right questions. My kids probably have/will have all the same immunizations that yours do/will.

I'm also saying that you should learn about what's behind the hysteria before giving it too much of your attention. If you're too lazy to do that you should probably go with what any expert (doesn't matter which, you aren't qualified to vet them) tells you to do.

Which leads me to: choose your experts carefully. They're not all brilliant, and they aren't all right.

Christ -- I'm advocating a reasoned approach here, you fucking ninnies.

Gotcha. I was misunderestimating your point. It seemed to me you were trying to place your literature-gleaned "expertise" on par with your medical professional's.

**jon gaper** · 06-20-2008, 02:58 PM

you have to be intelligent to have autistic kids, so you are safe

I'm ur Huckleberry · 06-20-2008, 03:05 PM

I was told I was autistic but can't paint a lick.

**Mofro261** · 06-20-2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by I'm ur Huckleberry

I was told I was autistic but can't paint a lick.

Licking the paint probably made you autistic to begin with.

**Stu Gotz** · 06-20-2008, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by jon gaper

you have to be intelligent to have autistic kids, so you are safe

My simple mind is now at ease.

**warthog** · 06-20-2008, 03:27 PM

I'm the kid of a pediatrician, so that makes me practically an expert on this subject.

Seriously, though. I can't add much more than has been said. There is NO proof that they cause autism, but there's a whole lot of proof that NOT immunizing kids WILL lead to outbreaks of crazy shit like smallpox and polio.

My dad cringes every time there is a news report on something to do with vaccines, or autism, or shortages of flu meds, or any such ridiculous filler that the 24 hour news cycle latches on to for 2 or 3 days. He gets the most ridiculous calls and questions asked by his patients' parents. The sad part is, his practice is in a very affluent, well educated area of CT. It must be even worse in other communities.

We asked our Ped. about the hype, and she gave us an article to read from the New England Journal of Medicine or some other medical journal. The article discussed how the initial study, out of England, that "discovered" the link of vaccines to autism, was actually funded by families over there trying to find someone to sue. The article went on to quote the lab that conducted the tests, saying that they regretted ever publishing the info. In their initial report, they claimed that the vaccines "could" be responsible. However, they said that since that report came out, the general public has taken it as gospel that vaccines DO cause autism. If that is the root of this whole thing, then they should be sorry.

Get the necessary vaccines for your kids. The new bugs we have out there are strong enough. Do we really want the old nastys showing up again too?

**cramer** · 06-20-2008, 04:08 PM

There is NO proof that they cause autism

thats exactly what my kids pediatrician said. But before we made any decisions she gave me info on studies, etc. My kids had all her vaccinations and she's fine. Id rather have an autistic kid than one who died because i didnt give her something that could have prevented it. The choice was a no brainer for me. Its up to the parents i guess. If they dont want to vaccinate their kid, its their choice. id hope they have a good reason, like they already have an autistic kid. Otherwise, i think its pretty stupid not to.

**hutash** · 06-20-2008, 04:33 PM

There are valid reasons not to vaccinate some kids, and some not so valid reasons, like religion. If an individual feels strongly enough not to vaccinate their children, the child is still reasonably safe, as long as most of the population around them is well vaccinated. I would not want to be that child as an adult though, living in constant fear of fun little diseases like polio, and never being able to venture out of my safe little neighborhood. (Don't ever go to a third world country, or even second world.) If that is how you want your kids to live, by all means, don't vaccinate.

There are options, and they need to be discussed with your ped.

**GoNads** · 06-20-2008, 05:00 PM

That's right, don't vaccinate your kids, because we were better off before modern medicine. I prefer polio to autism, and would rather rely on the rest of the community vaccinating their children to keep my child safe from such diseases.

That kind of backwards thinking is why cases of polio, mumps, and other diseases are springing up randomly across the US that haven't been seen in years. The rest of the undeveloped world would LOVE to have a chance to get their children vaccinated... and see their children grow past their infant years.

**hutash** · 06-20-2008, 05:23 PM

I was not advocating no vaccines, but simply pointing out the reality of the situation. My kids were vaccinated, as was I when I was a kid. Polio sucks, and I know first hand because a good friend had it as an infant, and I am old enough to have heard not to go in public swimming pools so we wouldn't get polio. Not to mention school friends in leg braces from the disease.

The reason we have these diseases randomly popping up is that vaccines are not perfect. Short of small pox, no vaccine has ever eliminated a disease, not that it hasn't been tried. Again, I am a vaccine proponent, but there is a reality involved.

**summit** · 06-20-2008, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by AsheanMT

It comes down to the insane amount of mercury in those vaccines. The levels of mercury far exceed limits set by the FDA and the EPA. Their little bodies shouldn't be exposed to such high levels. The levels of mercury that they are exposed to are higher than what the FDA says a full grown adult male should injest.

1. Many vaccines are thimerosal free.
2. There are mercury compounds that are biologically inert. Look at amalgam fillings for a perfect example. Simply containing mercury doesn't by definition make a compound harmful. Nerve gas contain carbon but not all carbon compounds are deadly. Raw carbon isn't good for you either. FDA limits are for bioactive mercury compounds. Typical misinformation perpetuated by those who don't understand what they are talking about.
3. It's standard simplistic fear perpetuated by those uneducated in science acting on a visceral instinct to protect children back by instinctual fear of the unknown. Fucking luddites...

YOU CAN RECEIVE immunizations later in life when your body is a little more developed and better capable of handling them.

The point of early immunization is to prevent death. Vaccines are only recommended when the effectiveness and decrease in morbidity/mortality outweighs the complications and side effects of the immunization. This is why you don't get smallpox vaccine anymore. It's why you don't see plague vaccine given hardly at all. Better able to handle them? The whole point of vaccinating kids young is to prevent them from getting dangerous and deadly diseases when their immune systems are not well suited to handle it!

Vaccinations also help promote new strains of germs that become resilient to current immunizations.

OMG you have no fucking clue how this works, do you? That really is the stupidest argument against immunizations I have ever heard. Period.

Originally Posted by ColMan

the bottom line is that they have no clue why there has been such a massive increase in the autism numbers.

I've been told by several docs that it is due to changes in diagnostic methodology and definitions. They are paying more attention, catching more cases (and earlier), and more things fall under the diagnosis.

**booner** · 06-20-2008, 06:12 PM

My .02....Parents of Autistic children obviously want a reason for what's going on. A statistic that COULD be seen as this reason, ie. vaccinations vs. Autism is easily blown up into "the reason". Then they run with it...Oh that's it! Statistics don't mean shit most of the time, ie. Oh, this guy bats .650 when it's raining in Zimbabwe. I don't buy it. But I'm an opponent of every conspiracy theory.

**Core Shot** · 06-20-2008, 07:00 PM

She has amazing powers of hypnosis and will convince you of the connection

**SkiBrain** · 06-20-2008, 07:11 PM

Autism is a little out of my personal field of expertise, but UC Davis happens to have one of the premiere inter-disciplinary autism research institutes in the country (the MIND Institute, where MIND stands for Medical Investigation of Neurodevelopmental Disorders). Here's their official position and a summary of some of the research on this issue:

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/mindins...eposition.html