Mountain Car??? Grand Vitara vs XTerra vs Outback vs Tacoma

[hutash]

Never, ever run anything less then 91 octane in a turbo, unless of course you want to upgrade to a bigger turbo, and need to destroy the stock one first.

You really need to decide which of the points you listed are the most important. Overall the taco (or 4 runner, if you want the enclosed space), would be mu choice, but the mileage sucks. If you really need the clearance and ruggedness, and don't put on huge miles it is a great choice. With the price of gas the subaru my be a better choice if you aren't doing much hauling, et cetera. I would stay away from a turbo, after all it is a high center station wagon, so handling sucks. I would also say stick with the manual, but I am pretty much an anti-automatic person anyways.

Figure out what you really need, then pick what fits it best.

[EPSkis]

Never, ever run anything less then 91 octane in a turbo, unless of course you want to upgrade to a bigger turbo, and need to destroy the stock one first.

No measure of disrespect intended ~ but WHERE did you come up with that?

[jSki]

No love for the Jeep Cherokee? Best car ever made, it kills it wheeling, in snow, tows 2 sleds with ease and has decent gas mileage. Only had the alternator go out on me at 155k. And it can be bought for well under 5 grand.

Also, you have zero need for a locker. Can be extremely dangerous if used on snowy/icy roads and I have yet to find a hill I can't climb without one. It may have helped when I got us stuck in Silverton though

[fondigley]

Look for a 4 door taco from 2001-2004. Seems to me the best bet. Let's you take 5 people to the mountain, smallish, yet still somewhat economical. Gives you the locker option, which I think is a fantastic tool. Lock up the front as well and get a winch and you can pretty much get your ass out of any situation with some other minor recovery tools. Not that you plan to get into difficult situations or offroad. You just never know. Great stock vehicles, right now still good resale. Not the cheapest, but when you buy a Tacoma it is more like an investment instead of money lost with most vehicles. Only come in auto is one of the downfalls. That and the smaller engine than the new 4 doors. That extra power is a necessity at this altitude and especially where you are driving. Supercharged is the only way to go, but will cost you a couple grand more to find a supercharged Tacoma. The new one is pretty nice, so I guess that might be ideal too. More power, more room, bigger bed, standard transmission and still available in a TRD with 250 horsepower before being supercharged. Too sick. You seen the comercials.

[P_McPoser]

Aaron--I caution you to drive the Tacoma up here before you purchase one. Don't bother with a four cylinder.

[EPSkis]

...still available in a TRD with 250 horsepower before being supercharged. Too sick. You seen the comercials.

No it isn't - 236HP/266lb-ft torque. TRD package has nothing to do w/ the engine. It adds Bilstein shocks, bigger (?) 16" alloys & a locking rear diff. Oh yeah.....and neat-o "TRD" graphics. :rolleyes
There are some other cosmetic items in the package too, but nothing that enhances the performance of the truck, aside from the shocks &
rubber.

There's a cold air intake upgrade available, but Toyota does NOT add a supercharger to a Tacoma V6.

[hutash]

No measure of disrespect intended ~ but WHERE did you come up with that?

The fastest way to destroy a turbo is with pre-ignition (knocks and pings), or to have an engine diesel after stopping, both of which are more common with lower octane. Turbos are easy enough to ruin when trying to do everything right.

I can't say it is a fact, but I have heard of turbos not being covered by warranty if they find out you are using regular gas.

[EPSkis]

The fastest way to destroy a turbo is with pre-ignition (knocks and pings), or to have an engine diesel after stopping, both of which are more common with lower octane. Turbos are easy enough to ruin when trying to do everything right.

I can't say it is a fact, but I have heard of turbos not being covered by warranty if they find out you are using regular gas.

Yes, it's certainly preferable to run a 91 (+) octane in a turbo ~ It will prevent knocking & can *significantly* increase your gas mileage over regular grade...(A Suby 3.0l can gain as much as 3-4mpg using premium over regular) The engine will self-adjust its' intake/exhaust valve & spark timing (among other things).

And no ~ running regular grade certainly isn't recommended for extended periods, but....even Subaru tells you that you can indeed use regular gas if Premium is unavailable.

I asked you because: A) I've never owned a turbo B) Heard that a million times, yet never saw anything stating *WHY*. (Which includes being in the car biz for over 12yrs)

As an aside.....from a geek perspective: Since a turbo is nothing more than a turbine driven on one side by hot exhaust gasses, and pulling COLD air in on the OTHER side....How the hell would the quality of the gasoline even AFFECT the operation of the turbo?

[summit]

As an aside.....from a geek perspective: Since a turbo is nothing more than a turbine driven on one side by hot exhaust gasses, and pulling COLD air in on the OTHER side....How the hell would the quality of the gasoline even AFFECT the operation of the turbo?

Exactly... you aren't going to damage the turbo. You could damage the engine.

Here is my thinking:

If the turbo is providing 6 psi of boost and atmospheric is 8-10psi driving around here, because I'm almost always at 9000ft or higher (Atmospheric is 10psi here in the office), then the engine will probably run just fine on regular or mid grade if the engine would otherwise be fine on regular without the turbo. The actual manifold pressures are going to only be 14-16psi. All the turbo is doing is making like I'm at sea level (avg 14.7psi).

[uglymoney]

I thought about this thread while at work today. Summit, when you find the vehicle that is the perfect compromise of off roadability, mileage, cargo capacity, and driveability, and reliability let us know.

I think a turbodiesel Outback Wagon or Forester with a manual transmission and the Aussie low side that at least gives you a 2-1 reduction would be close.

Till then it is really a matter of getting two vehicles. We have a runner and an Outback. Next on the list is a high mileage commuter and then replacing the Outback with a TD version. I think some good offerings will be coming out in the next few years.

[MOHSHSIHd]

No it isn't - 236HP/266lb-ft torque. TRD package has nothing to do w/ the engine. It adds Bilstein shocks, bigger (?) 16" alloys & a locking rear diff. Oh yeah.....and neat-o "TRD" graphics. :rolleyes
There are some other cosmetic items in the package too, but nothing that enhances the performance of the truck, aside from the shocks &
rubber.

There's a cold air intake upgrade available, but Toyota does NOT add a supercharger to a Tacoma V6.

Mine also has the K+N intake kit as well.

[EPSkis]

Mine also has the K+N intake kit as well.

Notice any mileage increase once you put it on?

[MOHSHSIHd]

Notice any mileage increase once you put it on?

Couldn't say, it was already installed when I bought it.

[Cruiser]

Gotta throw in a quick vote for the X-terrible. I had an '03 with over 100K miles on it then about 6 months ago I traded it in for an '08 Xterra off road. I'm really satisfied so far. Lots of power, especially with a free flowing exhaust and K&N. The 4wd is stout. It comfortably fits 33" tires without a lift. The rear diff lock guarantees that you'll get up whatever it is your trying to get up. There are skid plates covering most of the major underbody components (although they are a bit thin for really serious wheeling). I get 18.5 mpg consistently around town and on trips to the high country. With Nissans $2500 customer cash you can get into a new '08 Off road with auto trans for ~$24000 since invoice is somwhere around $26700. Not a bad option considering your list of wants and needs.

[renoenvy]

I went with the 4Runner despite some ergonomic issues, because it was (1) made in Japan, (2) Toyota reliability reputation, (3) fulltime 4WD, (4) not much more $ than the Xterra (~$3-4K at most), and IMHO nicer-finished than the Xterra. I fit better in the Xterra (6' tall), and liked the Xterra seats more. Oh well.

I got a 4runner. I can't imagine a vehicle that I would want more. I've thought of pick ups a few times. I'll probably end up with a pick up down the road, but that would be more of a non recreational hauling sort of gig.

The dogs are stoked when the back seats are down. There's plenty of room for people when the back seats are up. I really like mine in the snow, especially if I'm parking in a pull out that hasn't been hit by the snowplows yet. We don't do any hardcore offroading, mostly access to climbing areas, snowline (not in a couple years), fishin' holes, and campsites. She does fine, maybe I'd notice if I were more concerned with stuff beyond putting it in gear, pressing the gas, and going up hill.

I can sleep in it, but I do have to do the diagnol bit, so that only happens when I'm meeting friends for stuff in Tuolumne and the girlfriend isn't there.

Mine's a little older. It's a '97, with 160 grand on it. Runnin' as good as new. If I won the lottery, I'd probably keep the ol' girl and drive her 'til the wheels fell off.

Even the clutch is going strong. The clutch is the thingy you depress with your foot when you are shifting gears with a manual transmission.

I'd agree with P_McP regarding the 4 banger. I had one with one of those little engines before this one. It really wasn't that rad heading up hills. Of course, it was an automatic.

I don't have any good pictures of it, I don't really like taking pictures of cars.

with the big ol' winter/spring/ski/campin' box on her



and the little summertime campin'/climbin' box on her

[Theodore]

I had an '02 Xterra SE supercharged that I loved and regret selling to this day. Gas mileage was atrocious, but it did everything else well. Great in the snow, great off road, holds a lot of crap and I loved the way it looked.

[Nanuq]

You actually said in your thread title "Mountain Car."

That is the douchiest douchebag, gayest gayism and total fucking faux-psuedo "Mountain" thing I have seen.

Mountain Car. Holy fucking sheep shit. You are sooooooo fucking gay and poserific it turns the stomach.

[P_McPoser]

^^ Or pehaps Summit, as do I, live in the MOUNTAINS at 9600ish feet, drive steep grades in shitty weather, where it snows 8 months per year for commutes, and there just happens to be certain vehicles that are much more suited for that task. We will call those "Mountain Cars."

[Aussie_ripper]

Wait, did Newschoolerz finally just say something kind of original and funny? Good boy. 'Bout time.

[Liberal Genius]

^^ Or pehaps Summit, as do I, live in the MOUNTAINS at 9600ish feet, drive steep grades in shitty weather, where it snows 8 months per year for commutes, and there just happens to be certain vehicles that are much more suited for that task. We will call those "Mountain Cars."

He should know then, that if he gets anything other than a Tacoma, he's uber-gay.

[6.ways.till.sunday]

I had an xterra and loved it. It was shit on climbing big hills, but that thing was uber rugged. Loved it! MPG was shit and that was when gas was cheap.

almost exactly what i was gonna say. I love my Xterra. It is nice to drive and gets around really well. especially in snow. But at four dollars a gallon it's MPG's are killin me. It is also nice to have the built in rack on the roof. It works quite well.

[boarddad]

I have a 1'st gen 2000. I'll echo what everyone else has said - great car, exactly what you expect. Really reliable, no squeaks and groans after driving it off-road like you get with Exploders and Jeeps. It drives like a truck because it is one. What's more is I found a great Nissan shop I love. Mine has 165k on it and still runs great. I have twice blown tires at freeway speed and it handled great both times. Some points worth considering;

It's built off of the Frontier framework but the engine isn't exactly the same. Maybe they changed it in later models, but it has a timing BELT, not a chain. THAT was expensive to change!

The 2000 Auto was a dog. Even my wife noticed the big drop-off in power compared to the manual on the test drive. Again, maybe they fixed that in later models.

Gas mileage is terrible but I knew that when I bought it. You should get a really good deal on one since the dealers can't get rid of them with gas @ +$4

My Check Engine light came on about a year ago and the shop couldn't diagnose exactly why. They told me to keep driving it until the problem got worse. It still runs great but that will force my hand. CA won't give you a smog cert with the light on and it comes due this November. I'm not going to spend a fortune just to get the light to turn off. Just like my '76 280Z, I'm really going to miss this car. How I wish Nissan would build a car similar to the Outback - I'd buy it in a second.

[AbsolutStoli]

jeep liberty?

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=120209

I sleeps diagonally all the time. HWY mileage = 22 (+), city = 18.5-19.

ditto.

i just got a 2003 sport about 2 months ago and the only thing that sucks about the thing is the gas milage (which i knew would happen anyway). i guess the other thing is that its a little sluggish going up hill if you dont downshift, but im thinking most heavy suv's with a v6 are like that.

PS - went on my first ever off-roading drive today. nothing difficult, went up to sugarloaf trail near nederland/boulder. the truck did great and im totally hooked. cant wait to go exploring more trails in the area now that the weather is getting warmer.

[timvwcom]

My Check Engine light came on about a year ago and the shop couldn't diagnose exactly why. They told me to keep driving it until the problem got worse. It still runs great but that will force my hand. CA won't give you a smog cert with the light on and it comes due this November. I'm not going to spend a fortune just to get the light to turn off. Just like my '76 280Z, I'm really going to miss this car. How I wish Nissan would build a car similar to the Outback - I'd buy it in a second.

Was it throwing a code? Have you used an OBDII to reset it, how quick before it comes back on?

[Gripen]

Exactly... you aren't going to damage the turbo. You could damage the engine.

Here is my thinking:

If the turbo is providing 6 psi of boost and atmospheric is 8-10psi driving around here, because I'm almost always at 9000ft or higher (Atmospheric is 10psi here in the office), then the engine will probably run just fine on regular or mid grade if the engine would otherwise be fine on regular without the turbo. The actual manifold pressures are going to only be 14-16psi. All the turbo is doing is making like I'm at sea level (avg 14.7psi).

Exactly, low octane wont hurt the turbo itself. However it can damage the piston rings and valves via pre-detonation AKA knock. A turbocharged engine will see increased manifold pressure, (on a stock Subie around 14-15psi) as well as INCREASED combustion and exhaust temperatures. To give and idea how hot I used to tune my old drag car to 1550F at the fourth manifold.

Low octane gas is less resistant to knock meaning that the air-fuel mixture could ignite at the wrong time, damaging the piston rings, valves, and valve seats. I have seen valves missing huge pieces, piston rings in pieces etc, all from knock. Plus in a turbocharged vehicle you will get better gas mileage, nearly negating the increased cost. It is a good idea to run the highest octane possible in a turbo. (And if you have a rotary engine.)

Hope thsi makes some sense, i am a few beers deep.