Mountain Car??? Grand Vitara vs XTerra vs Outback vs Tacoma

**BrianGriffin** · 05-22-2008, 02:05 PM

I have a 2000 Xterra, which was first generation, with a much smaller engine (170hp V6), and a 5 speed manual. It has 112,000 miles on it and still averages around 20-22 on the highway. It isn't great up big hills, but the newer version has nearly 100 more horsepower, which should help that considerably. They are pretty bomber vehicles, and I'd really recommend getting it with a manual (now a 6 speed) if you can, its a great transmission and being able to use the tranny to help slow you down can be very helpful sometimes, especially with this truck. I would buy a second Xterra in a heartbeat, but thats just my $0.02.

Liberal Genius · 05-22-2008, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by BrianGriffin

I have a 2000 Xterra, which was first generation, with a much smaller engine (170hp V6), and a 5 speed manual. It has 112,000 miles on it and still averages around 20-22 on the highway. It isn't great up big hills, but the newer version has nearly 100 more horsepower, which should help that considerably. They are pretty bomber vehicles, and I'd really recommend getting it with a manual (now a 6 speed) if you can, its a great transmission and being able to use the tranny to help slow you down can be very helpful sometimes, especially with this truck. I would buy a second Xterra in a heartbeat, but thats just my $0.02.

Don't forget about the rear gate compartment for the first aid kit. You know you've got a badass vehicle with that sweet lil feature!

**EPSkis** · 05-22-2008, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

ALSO WITH THE SUBARU OUTBACK - Unless you get the Turbo-4 or the 6cyl model (which have the 5 speed auto), you end up with the 90/10 split AWD instead of the 55/45 AWD with a rear LSD.

Utterly incorrect. It's the same configuration throughout the entire Outback series, though you ARE correct about the viscous-coupled rear differential. (Standard in a Suby ~ The Taco is electronic & only as an available option. Mechanical LSD rear is an available upgrade for $390.)

3 Suby systems: Continuous AWD on ALL Suby 5spd manual + Legacy 2.5GT SpecB w/ a 6spd Manual.

Active AWD on all 4spd Autos

Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) AWD on the higher-performance Subies. With VTD, there's more rear bias and THAT'S a 45/55 split.

You're referring to a Taco that's got a 236HP V6 DOHC powerplant vs a Suby's 170HP 4cyl SOHC. Yeah, in that case ~ the Taco will have some distinct advantages (Gas mileage NOT being one of them!) Apples to apples, the 3.0l powerplant in a Suby has 245HP and 215lb-ft. Taco's V6 is 236hp and 266 lb-ft.

The base Suby will still tow 2700lbs ~ plenty for 2 sleds & gear.
FWIW: 3yr/36k mi. Roadside Assistance is also standard on Subies

**mcsquared** · 05-22-2008, 02:14 PM

One of the things I have come to expect as part of a universal truth of living in Colorado.
No matter how cool and remote and rugged of a destination, some college kid from Ohio driving a honda civic already beat you there.

**MakersTeleMark** · 05-22-2008, 02:14 PM

If you are really serious about towing, then that really limits your options.

**BobMc** · 05-22-2008, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by PlayHarder

If you can resist the urge to floor it all the time, my '06 TRD doublecab longbox gets pretty good mileage in the real world. Over 2 years my monthly average has been 9-9.5L/100km (25/26mpg) and it it spends a lot of time on mountain roads hauling sleds, pulling a camper and it regularly carries a couple thousand pounds of work related equipment to locations all over Alberta and ne BC. Not great numbers, but as good or better than a lot of vehicles that are less capable. I've been tracking my mileage every fill since I got the truck, so they should be a pretty accurate reflection of what the Toyota can do.

I get nowhere near that with my 07 doublecab longbox. The EPA estimates are 16 city and 21 highway, and that isn't with 2000 pounds in back. You sure your math is correct?

BobMc

**summit** · 05-22-2008, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by mcsquared

One of the things I have come to expect as part of a universal truth of living in Colorado.
No matter how cool and remote and rugged of a destination, some college kid from Ohio driving a honda civic already beat you there.

6" clearance 2WD will get you some places but not others... my Accord is missing the engine compartment splash guard and has some dents on the bottom side...

Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

If you are really serious about towing, then that really limits your options.

I don't think most people consider 2 sleds to be "serious towing" do they?

**Name Redacted** · 05-22-2008, 02:27 PM

Get a taco, everything else sucks. I have used mine for everything that you will use yours for and more and it's still ticking. I was thinking about selling it because of the mileage but changed my mind because I need it for summer.

Imagine being able to cruise up and down radical hill in zuma for fun. My 98 stock TRD can make it up almost anything with a set of 31" bfg's. I have only used the rear locker a few times and that was for fun. I used to live at the top of ptarmigan mt for a few years and rarely had a problem getting up "Z" rd (it was my driveway) even through 4 foot drifts and very steep grade.

Point is a taco is the best vehicle for this kind of lifestyle. Fourunners used to compare but the new ones are glorified grocery getters. Subies have crappy clearance and the mpg savings are minimal. X-terras are for boulder yuppies. Not bad performance but still not better than a taco. Oh, and how the fuck did a suzuki find it's way into the discussion?!

**PlayHarder** · 05-22-2008, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

I'd love one of those but doesn't a longbed + double cab = HUGE wheelbase = huge turn radius + easy high center = bad offroad and hard to park?

Really gnarly offroad stuff isn't it's forte, but it handles old logging roads and what passes for roads in the northern Alberta and BC oilpatch well.
Roads like this, but with way deeper ruts from big rigs aren't uncommon:

My job has me spending about 50% of my time in an office in downtown Calgary and I have no problems with it in city sized parking lots and traffic. Basically, if you have trouble parking it you need driving lessons not a smaller vehicle.

**Name Redacted** · 05-22-2008, 02:32 PM

I'm only looking at autos though.

WTF is up with that? If you are going off road or towing or still have a pair dangling between your legs, get a manual fer christ sakes!

**MOHSHSIHd** · 05-22-2008, 02:36 PM

I wish I had some pictures of the "roads" I have driven my Taco up to go skiing.

All the lesbarus are parked at the first rock and I can continue on another 3-4 miles up.

**uglymoney** · 05-22-2008, 02:36 PM

The Outback blows ass at real offroading. It will get you up gravel access roads no problem though. It surprised me how good it is at getting over minor rocks and ruts, but anything serious is a show stopper.

I can't figure out why you would want an automatic though? Get the 2.5i with a five speed, and no turbo. I think towing with a gasoline powered turbo motor in the mountains is crazy. I'd blow it up for sure. That is purely personal speculation though. My 2.5 with normal aspiration and no variable valving with the five speed has all the power I ever need once I get things moving. Starting from a stop when towing is the only time it is challenged.

I'd say the runner fits your needs the best as outlined. Maybe find one someone is trying to trade off cheap so they can get into an Outback. Gas is expensive shit nowadays.

Anyway here is my Suby in tow mode. The looks of sorrow I get from F150 drivers towing tiny little fishing boats are priceless. Newsflash: You can tow your teeny ween itsy bity little aluminum fishing boats with a Volkswagen. Really though, my car is maxed out with my rig. I wouldn't pull out of a driveway with it in the mountains.

**PlayHarder** · 05-22-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by BobMc

I get nowhere near that with my 07 doublecab longbox. The EPA estimates are 16 city and 21 highway, and that isn't with 2000 pounds in back. You sure your math is correct?

BobMc

Pretty comfortable with it, litres per hundred kms is pretty easy to calculate. Bear in mind that 80% of my driving is on highways with a 100km/h(60mph) speed limit or back roads. Very little idling or stop and go traffic and I'm not often cruising freeways at 85-90mph. I've been watching my fuel on this truck in a number of different ways, which town I can get to before I need to fill up and stuff like that wouldn't make sense to anyone that doesn't drive the roads regularly, but they all reinforce my actual number crunching.
In playing around, I've found that driving habits have a huge impact on my Taco. My commute is mostly highway, so I've played around a bit to see the results. If I fill up on Monday am and drive the speed limit of 110km/h all week, I've still got gas left when I get home on Friday pm. If I drive it at 130-140, I need to fill up Thursday.

**summit** · 05-22-2008, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Imagine being able to cruise up and down radical hill in zuma for fun.

X-terras are for boulder yuppies. Not bad performance but still not better than a taco. Oh, and how the fuck did a suzuki find it's way into the discussion?!

Driving up radical hill in a modified jeep is scary to me. The thought of rolling down that scares the piss out of me. Maybe it's cuz I've seen what happens. But that's still really damned cool.

X-terra seemed like a cheaper 4Runner that had a little more off trail goodness.

Suzuki found its way in only because it is cheap as hell.

Originally Posted by MOHSHSIHd

I wish I had some pictures of the "roads" I have driven my Taco up to go skiing.

Does it have a skid plate? Do you think you could drive it up 12K in Horseshoe Basin?

Originally Posted by uglymoney

I can't figure out why you would want an automatic though?

I'd rather have an auto because I do stuff while driving and if I hurt myself it is much harder to drive a manual.

**365wp** · 05-22-2008, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by uglymoney

The Outback blows ass at real offroading. It will get you up gravel access roads no problem though. It surprised me how good it is at getting over minor rocks and ruts, but anything serious is a show stopper.

The lack of a locking diff stopped me a few times, too. Every steep incline required a running start. And you will miss having lower gears for descending.

**Lone Star** · 05-22-2008, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

I'd rather have an auto because I do stuff while driving and if I hurt myself it is much harder to drive a manual.

.................

Liberal Genius · 05-22-2008, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

I'd rather have an auto because I do stuff while driving and if I hurt myself it is much harder to drive a manual.

On second thought, I think the Lesbaru is right up your alley.

Learn how to drive a stick.

**uglymoney** · 05-22-2008, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by 365wp

Every steep incline required a running start.

Thats the real show stopper. You can go along pretty good until you run into rocks on an incline that require crawling. That is where you have to park it. An automatic Subaru probably has the advantage here, but as with the Turbo, I can't even begin to imagine trying to tow something with an auto Subaru in the mountains. Edit: After a quick search I discovered that the 4eat tranny locks up in 2nd 3nd and fourth. At least that makes the auto feasible, if not practical. I know the new five speed locks up in the top three gears. Why worry about it though? Get a five speed manual.

The torque converter uses a multiple-plate lockup clutch with an individual hydraulic circuit for better control. Torque converter lockup occurs in third, fourth and fifth gears - even in manual mode - for optimal fuel efficiency.

**Adolf Allerbush** · 05-22-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

I'd rather have an auto because I do stuff while driving and if I hurt myself it is much harder to drive a manual.

Originally Posted by Liberal Genius

Learn how to drive a stick.

Sounds like he's busy with his stick already while driving.

**Beaver** · 05-22-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

Who has opinions?

Opinions are like assholes.....

I'm not going to give you my opinion.

Think about $8/gallon gasoline.

I towed my sled behind my 2wd Corolla through the mountains around Nelson. You don't need a 4x4, you want one.

**uglymoney** · 05-22-2008, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Beaver

Opinions are like assholes.....

I'm not going to give you my opinion.

Think about $8/gallon gasoline.

Its a good point. If gas goes to $8 people won't be able to afford to drive their trucks much, and they won't be able to sell them. Talk about getting stuck.

**snowburns** · 05-22-2008, 03:29 PM

Considered a non-TRD taco? I purchased a new 06 4 cyl, access cab with a leer cap and it's done everything you're wanting to do. I basically learned how to drive a stick in it and wouldn't want to go back to an auto. My mileage is just as advertised at 19/23 if not better depending how I drive and I've put 39,000 miles on it with no problems whatsoever.

Toyota has a Technical Service Bulletin (similar to a recall, but you have to complain to get it) to replace all 4 shocks with the Bilsteins and add a leaf in the rear for the non TRD trucks. Meaning they'll give you a TRD suspension in a non-TRD if you complain about the rear end bottoming out.

And if you REALLY needed that locker you could have one put in.

I have 0 complaints about this truck.

**MOHSHSIHd** · 05-22-2008, 04:02 PM

Summit, it has skid plates that pretty much cover everything. It will take you as high as you are willing to go.

I am gonna assume you have been a sedan driver your whole life? Off-road driving skill is an art and takes alot of time behind the wheel before you can take full advantage of your vehicles capabilities. Once you get good at it you can take a TRD just about anywhere.

Xterras are not even close to comparable.

Tacoma TRDs are the only truly off-road capable vehicles in your prospective list.

**Name Redacted** · 05-22-2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Summit

Driving up radical hill in a modified jeep is scary to me. The thought of rolling down that scares the piss out of me. Maybe it's cuz I've seen what happens. But that's still really damned cool.

I saw a group of 15 mostly stock jeeps drive up and over radical a few years ago while I was riding my MTB. The funny thing was that every one of the drivers were over 60! They thought I was crazy for riding my bike all the way up there. I decided then that I could make it over it in my truck so I rode back down to the truck and went back up and drove over it. I did it no problem in 4-low.

Turning radius in a tacoma is not that bad either. Parallel parking with a topper is a pain but other than that it's ok.

**fortysix&2** · 05-22-2008, 04:31 PM

I have an '03 extended cab taco w/TRD and cap. I'd thought about the outback originally, but I went with a truck because:

1) With the cap, I use a platform for camping. Store stuff under, sleep on top. I'm 6'2", and the outback was uncomfortable to sleep in, and it was real messy. The truck allows me to keep the "shit" in the back, and the cab clean (think odors from boots, wet clothes, etc...). Works great in summer too. All my buddies have to pitch a tent (if we''re car camping), and I just pull up and ready to go. This was probably the number one reason I went with a truck (small) instead of an SUV or Outback.

2) I can haul stuff in the back. Keep in mind I am married, and have a house to keep up, so trips to Home Depot etc.. are easier.

3) Offroad package. I've used the locker to get out of drifts, and it works well. Very comfortable going up knarly stuff...low 4 works real well.

4) Reliability. The Taco can run for quite some time. (knock on wood) I've not had any problems, and have put 120k on it...I drive a lot.

That said here are a couple things I dont like about the Taco:
1) Poor side impact safety rating. This may be the number one reason I'll sell it, as my wife and I are expecting our first in a few weeks. For this reason, I will not buy another Taco.

2) Gas...duh. But, I'll probably end up buying a full size.

3) Room. I've stuffed 3 ppl in the cab and it's not comfortable if they are all over 6'.