Edjumacate me on GS skis

**hutash** · 04-21-2008, 05:16 PM

I don't know shit about GS or race skis. I prefer to use groomers only to get back to the lifts, but the last two days tells me I need to broaden my quiver. It has been absolute boiler plate here in Mammoth after a cold front moved in and solidified the whole mountain. It has not softened on bit even by the end of the day, and the only people having fun are the racers (This is FIS western reg, finals, so there are a lot of good racers carving up the hill.)

As much as I love my Bros, they just can't hold an edge on this ice rink. I am not looking for anything super racy, I have no intention of racing, but want something for those few days when nothing short of a real race ski is going to carve into the ice. I don't have the foggiest about lengths, et cetera, but I am 5' 10" 175lbs.

**irul&ublo** · 04-21-2008, 05:20 PM

Don't get a GS ski, get something like a Volkl Supersport or similar.

**Tunco** · 04-21-2008, 05:24 PM

FIS is bumping up the radius to 27m, so a bunch of stuff should be coming onto the market for cheap. I would go mid 180s.

**MTslackcountry** · 04-21-2008, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by tief schnee

FIS is bumping up the radius to 27m, so a bunch of stuff should be coming onto the market for cheap. I would go mid 180s.

Where did you hear that? I did a search and did not find any info. Just curious Ive been out the game for a while. Volkl site did not show new radius for 2009.

Wandrin* · 04-21-2008, 06:51 PM

Careful, this might actually become a thread about carving on the TGR forum...

I have a pair of 170 Salomon Equipe 10 SC that are super fun when the corduroy is flat and there is no powder to be found. I think they are 124-65-113 or some such thing. You don't need a very long ski - and in fact it is a bad thing when the side cut gets more extreme. At 5'10" you don't need a carving/race ski that is longer than 170, for sure.

The Nordica Doberman SL series are the type of ski you are looking for, I think. Something with a radius around 13 meters at about 165 cm.

There are plenty of big skis that will hold, but a race ski like this will be really fun.

**nick > jesus** · 04-21-2008, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by MTslackcountry

Where did you hear that? I did a search and did not find any info. Just curious Ive been out the game for a while. Volkl site did not show new radius for 2009.

the change already happened. but fuck the FIS, i still rock 21m skis, you only get checked if you win big race.

No company make a "bad" race ski, however they have different characteristics that work differently for different people,

a short summery of brands i am familiar with:

dynastar/rossi/vokl = softer/snappier/more chattery

fisher = stiff, but snappy

elan/nordica = stiff/damp

blizzard = their GS ski is allegedly too stiff for almost everyone (i have never tried them though)

atomic = i don't know

**Colorado_Freeskier** · 04-21-2008, 07:59 PM

You might want to try some of the "cheater" race skis. I own the Fischer World Cup RC...it lies between their slalom and GS skis and isn't FIS legal because the radius is 18m. The RC is stiff and heavy, however, it also has tons of rebound energy. I also have a pair of Nordica Doberman GSRs which are FIS legal and they are a blast...heavy, damp, super stable. Keep in mind that race skis (at least the ones I've tried) don't really come alive until they are up to speed and they are less forgiving than most freeride boards. That said when the conditions go to crap, it is a blast to be on race skis.

**Smooth Johnson** · 04-21-2008, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Wandrin*

Careful, this might actually become a thread about carving on the TGR forum...

oh the horror

**ill-advised strategy** · 04-21-2008, 08:08 PM

IMHO a groomer ski with a lot of sidecut ought to be stiff and heavy. it's not like you're skiing it in bumps or making quick turns in the trees with it. If and when I'm laying into deep, committed carves, I want something substantial that will hold it's edgeset perfectly, track consistently, and launch me out of the turn....I normally associate that kind of feel with stiff and heavy.

**nick > jesus** · 04-21-2008, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by YetiMan

IMHO a groomer ski with a lot of sidecut ought to be stiff and heavy. it's not like you're skiing it in bumps or making quick turns in the trees with it. If and when I'm laying into deep, committed carves, I want something substantial that will hold it's edgeset perfectly, track consistently, and launch me out of the turn....I normally associate that kind of feel with stiff and heavy.

AKA a race ski

**ill-advised strategy** · 04-21-2008, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by nick > jesus

AKA a race ski

yup......

**BKArmada** · 04-21-2008, 08:32 PM

im getting some 05-06 rossi 9x wc in 193 for $100 and some used fks 120 for 75 bucks
actually, im going to be paying twice that, but im ok with that

**Arty50** · 04-22-2008, 12:18 AM

I have a pair of race stock 188 Solly 10 2Vs (GS), and they are one of the funnest skis I've ever been on. When it's super firm out, they absolutely SLAY groomers. As for a speed limit, they're capable of going plaid.

I picked up a pair of Fischer GS skis early this season for the bindings, and I'm very tempted to try them out too before I pilfer the bindings off of them.

Nothing...and I mean NOTHING...rails groomers like a pair of well tuned race boards.

**SiSt** · 04-22-2008, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Arty50

Nothing...and I mean NOTHING...rails groomers like a pair of well tuned race boards.

This wins the Captain Obvious award for today.

I absolutely agree though. I was thinking of selling my Rossi gs 191´s after the first two days on them due to feeling like i couldn´t make them work. Day three, things started happening and now I don´t think I´ll ever sell them.

**philippeR** · 04-22-2008, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Colorado_Freeskier

You might want to try some of the "cheater" race skis. I own the Fischer World Cup RC...it lies between their slalom and GS skis and isn't FIS legal because the radius is 18m. The RC is stiff and heavy, however, it also has tons of rebound energy. I also have a pair of Nordica Doberman GSRs which are FIS legal and they are a blast...heavy, damp, super stable. Keep in mind that race skis (at least the ones I've tried) don't really come alive until they are up to speed and they are less forgiving than most freeride boards. That said when the conditions go to crap, it is a blast to be on race skis.

Yes. Dynastar Speed Course 67 is another option. It's a great ski IMO.
Or a high end carver ski, you would be surprised with a Dynastar Contact 11, a Rossi Z9 or a Volkl Supersport allstar. More friendly than a full bore race ski and still a lot of grip and energy.

**thd** · 04-22-2008, 02:37 AM

Unless you have a fetish for very short turns, stay away from slalom and race carvers, anything with radius < 20 meters. Sure it can be fun for a bit but it gets boring after a whole day, let alone several days.

This years 27 meters skis require a bit more effort to turn than the 21s of the last couple of years. A third option is the womens versions, radi of 24, lengths up to 184ish.

**Talking Monkey** · 04-22-2008, 06:10 AM

Heard good things about the Fischer Progressor (med radius turns) and Worldcup RC (long turns).

These Rossis have also caught my eye (wood core with metal laminate, vertical sidewall construction):
CX80:
http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/mercha...roduct_Count=4
CS70:
http://www.ski-depot.com/miva/mercha...roduct_Count=5

**yooper** · 04-22-2008, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by nick > jesus

blizzard = their GS ski is allegedly too stiff for almost everyone (i have never tried them though)

I haven't skied the 27m lengths, but I have the 182, which is a 25m radius, and it is stiff, but I wouldn't say it's too stiff for almost anyone. I have a solid race technique, but I'm far from elite, and they work VERY well for me.

**RShea** · 04-22-2008, 11:39 AM

Sounds like you are looking for an East Coast ski. Based on your weight (about the same as what I weight) and there are some boards out there just too still to flex. I have 3 pairs of Fischer (Race RC- 12 meter slalom side cut in 160cm- softer thant their Worldcup Slalom race series)- these are for sale now due to the new Volkl's, Fischer Worldcup RC 175cm (16 meter side cut cheater GS ski that is stiff and yet responsive turning on groomed, cuts through crude pretty good too), and picked up a pair of used Fischer Worldcup RC 173cm short GS skis (popular length for women, lighter weight skier or someone that does not want a full 21 meter that the 186 cm would be). These are probably around 19-20 meters (need to put the dimensions into the calculator to say for sure) and not as stiff as the cheater GS skis. Probably as stable if they are on edge carving but you have to ski them on edge and not running flat- which the cheater GS skis handle better. My other pair that are new to the quiver are Volkl Racetiger 165 world cup Slalom skis in a 13 meter radius. Both the slalom skis are turning machines, you can be launched off one turn into the next or onto your but if not careful.

I have also skied on Nordica Dobermanns, Elan, and a few different lengths of each of the Fischer Worldcup RC skis out there.

Do you want to be turning frequently short radius turns- then look at demoing a few slalom skis. If not then either the cheater GS skis out there (Fischer Worldcup RC in 170-185 cm lengths or the Volkl Star series (5 star, 6 star, allstar, etc.) would be some to consider. Also possibly the Elan Magfires. These are usually 15 to 18 meter skis that offer good ice grip like East Coast conditions can be, but not full blown race stock skis like some of the GS skis out there.

If you want to get up to speed and carve then GS skis are the ones to try. Again bunch of them out there (4 or 5 year old Fischers regularly on Ebay- they always end in either 3 or 8 - 173, 178, 183 etc. for the length, whereas the cheaters are either 0 or 5- 170, 175, 180, etc.) With bindings these can be had for less than $200 on auction sites or similar used ski sources.

Also the tuning of the edges can make a difference. Most all use 3 degree side edge, some stay 1 degree for base, others drop down to .5 for base bevel. But you have to keep them sharp for the edge grip on hard pack or ice no matter what ski you use.

**SiSt** · 04-22-2008, 12:04 PM

I thought the old gs skis were all >21m radius. My pair are approx. 27m radius...

**nick > jesus** · 04-22-2008, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by yooper

I haven't skied the 27m lengths, but I have the 182, which is a 25m radius, and it is stiff, but I wouldn't say it's too stiff for almost anyone. I have a solid race technique, but I'm far from elite, and they work VERY well for me.

yeah most of the feedback i have heard has been about the 192, and some 185s

Originally Posted by SiSt

I thought the old gs skis were all >21m radius. My pair are approx. 27m radius...

most just say >21m, my 186 nordicas measure to about 25

**doublediamond223** · 04-25-2008, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by hutash

I don't know shit about GS or race skis. I prefer to use groomers only to get back to the lifts, but the last two days tells me I need to broaden my quiver. It has been absolute boiler plate here in Mammoth after a cold front moved in and solidified the whole mountain. It has not softened on bit even by the end of the day, and the only people having fun are the racers (This is FIS western reg, finals, so there are a lot of good racers carving up the hill.)

As much as I love my Bros, they just can't hold an edge on this ice rink. I am not looking for anything super racy, I have no intention of racing, but want something for those few days when nothing short of a real race ski is going to carve into the ice. I don't have the foggiest about lengths, et cetera, but I am 5' 10" 175lbs.

I have a pair of 05-06 186 Nordica Dobermann GSRs that I need to get rid of, with plates and bindings. They are a real GS ski, to be sure, but are not that hard to ski compared to something like a fischer or atomic GS. They have a 21m radius, as it was before the FIS decided to shake things up. Let me know if you have any interest.

**XtrPickels** · 04-25-2008, 08:24 AM

If you want something a bit more versatile, check out the head Monster 82's. I have some in 183 and they rail turns on the groomers. the monster78's are a bit softer in the shovel and initiate easier but the tips will start to flap with speed.

**BushwackerinPA** · 04-25-2008, 06:11 PM

You could buy my 170cm Fisher Progressors....selling because they are kinda of short and the 175 0r 180 would be a better choice for me(200lb).

For reference most other skis in my quiver are 190ish.

**mnflyfish** · 04-25-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by hutash

I don't know shit about GS or race skis. I prefer to use groomers only to get back to the lifts, but the last two days tells me I need to broaden my quiver. It has been absolute boiler plate here in Mammoth after a cold front moved in and solidified the whole mountain. It has not softened on bit even by the end of the day, and the only people having fun are the racers (This is FIS western reg, finals, so there are a lot of good racers carving up the hill.)

As much as I love my Bros, they just can't hold an edge on this ice rink. I am not looking for anything super racy, I have no intention of racing, but want something for those few days when nothing short of a real race ski is going to carve into the ice. I don't have the foggiest about lengths, et cetera, but I am 5' 10" 175lbs.

Hutash,

For the few days you'll use them check out the Outlet at EVOGEAR.com. They have some great buys on 04 vintage K2's that would be perfect and not break the bank, I think $99 new in the plastic. I bought my wife a pair of the SL skis this year for her bar league and she LOVES them. Last time I looked they had a decent selection of sizes but for where you ski I'd err on the long side. You'll love rippin the shit out of the groomers on icy days.

Jay