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  1. #151
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    there is a big difference between a RN and a NP/PA.

    and even then a NP/PA likely can't prescribe the full list of pills that a doctor can (like Xanax etc)

    (again I'm not an expert on medical licenses and prescribing rules)

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    there is a big difference between a RN and a NP/PA.

    and even then a NP/PA likely can't prescribe the full list of pills that a doctor can (like Xanax etc)

    (again I'm not an expert on medical licenses and prescribing rules)
    when I had my shoulder surgery they stocked me up with OXY.....on my first followup doc said if you need refill contact my PA...I did and got another script. Not 2 days later I had another followup with the Dr. He asked if I needed MORE pills. Dude your PA just gave me a script yesterday...do you not talk with each other at all? I couldve easily had a couple hundred OXY's nobody wouldve batted an eye. This is about 8 years ago though.

  3. #153
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    These pills shouldn't be prescribed for home use at all.

    If you need the equivalent of heroin because of your boo boo, then get your ass into a hospital where they can monitor you and ensure you take the drugs correctly. It being expensive is a feature, not a bug here.

    I'd say eliminate them all together, but I got a bunch of shit for that a couple years ago from some dude who had a kidney stone. Seriously, that shit will pass and you don't need legal heroin for it to do so.
    Live Free or Die

  4. #154
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    I look forward to the day when the Ganj can replace most opiates as analgesics.

    Used to think that was a bit far-fetched, but not anymore. Now I think it's as alluded in another thread: a challenge for pharmacology and agronomy and genetics to objectify and isolate the beneficial entourage properties of healing strains of collie weed.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    I won't argue with you. They worked, though.

    I can remember vaguely thinking my respiration rate was slowing down (which it probably was) and could see how people might quite easily off themselves (purposely/accidentally) with that shit.

    I did get the itching & constipation, so it wasn't all fun and games...
    My point is that if they gave you enough to eliminate the pain completely they gave you too much. Get the pain down to tolerable, not gone. If you can do the things they want you to do--get out of bed, breathe deeply, cough, etc. that's enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Old goat probably has the scoop. So what's the common wisdom, doc?? What's gonna kill our livers? I mean, besides lots and lots of booze...
    Doctor Wiki says no more than 2 drinks per day if taking tylenol. I say that if you can't stop drinking while you're needed more than the occasional tylenol for pain you have a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    These pills shouldn't be prescribed for home use at all.

    If you need the equivalent of heroin because of your boo boo, then get your ass into a hospital where they can monitor you and ensure you take the drugs correctly. It being expensive is a feature, not a bug here.

    I'd say eliminate them all together, but I got a bunch of shit for that a couple years ago from some dude who had a kidney stone. Seriously, that shit will pass and you don't need legal heroin for it to do so.
    It is very likely that some time in your life you will have a chance to find out how unreasonable that is. Opiates are not the devil. We have opiate receptors for a reason. They have to be used judiciously and patients have to be instructed in their proper use. (Too many times I have heard doctors joke about how they're going to give you the good stuff or otherwise downplay the risks of opiates.) Some patients will become addicted to opiates, in the same proportion as in the general population. If you're going to ban opiates outside the hospital you'd better ban alcohol and tobacco as well.

  6. #156
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    God gave us the Poppy. Let us not forsake him.


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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    God gave us the Poppy. Let us not forsake him.


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    Amen
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    My point is that if they gave you enough to eliminate the pain completely they gave you too much. Get the pain down to tolerable, not gone. If you can do the things they want you to do--get out of bed, breathe deeply, cough, etc. that's enough.

    Doctor Wiki says no more than 2 drinks per day if taking tylenol. I say that if you can't stop drinking while you're needed more than the occasional tylenol for pain you have a problem.

    It is very likely that some time in your life you will have a chance to find out how unreasonable that is. Opiates are not the devil. We have opiate receptors for a reason. They have to be used judiciously and patients have to be instructed in their proper use. (Too many times I have heard doctors joke about how they're going to give you the good stuff or otherwise downplay the risks of opiates.) Some patients will become addicted to opiates, in the same proportion as in the general population. If you're going to ban opiates outside the hospital you'd better ban alcohol and tobacco as well.
    Yeah, not convinced (and you were one of the dicks who said a kidney stone is a perfectly fine use for legal heroin) you need to take these at home.

    Alcohol is far less deadly (as a ratio of deaths per user and is not as addictive to begin with) and tobacco takes fucking decades to bring you down. It also is well fucking known tobacco will kill you and isn't prescribed by doctors to "help" you. Nor is alcohol prescribed to help you either. I ultimately would shed zero tears if you got rid of tobacco though (and I say this as a former smoker).

    You do not need to take heroin at home to ease your pain. The human race has proven they can't handle that shit without dying at alarming rates. Suck it the fuck up, pain doesn't kill you, and there are other alternatives, albeit ones that don't completely numb you to the world. If you do need to be numbed to the world, you can do so in a hospital under the guidance of people who know what they are doing.
    Live Free or Die

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If you're going to ban opiates outside the hospital you'd better ban alcohol and tobacco as well.
    So they are equivalents with regard to regulation? Maybe take doctors out of the loop and sell them in the same places as alcohol and tobacco? I'm not sure I'd be 100% opposed to that. Either that or ban all of it as you suggest..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    So they are equivalents with regard to regulation? Maybe take doctors out of the loop and sell them in the same places as alcohol and tobacco? I'm not sure I'd be 100% opposed to that. Either that or ban all of it as you suggest..
    The doctors being in the loop is the biggest problem. Probably 99% of the world will do what a doctor says with zero qualms and then get fucked with drugs this strong under the guidance of a doctor just trying to help. In reality they (doctors) just don't want to get sued or keep their performance/review scores high.
    Live Free or Die

  11. #161
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    I don't wish ill will on anyone but you guys are gonna eat these words if you ever develop end stage cancer - especially if you want to live out your days outside of a hospital. These medications are able to be prescribed for good reasons that have nothing to do with doctors and/or patients bad behaviors. Your "black-or-white only" reactions show a lack of critical thinking or education.

    Turns out medicine and pharmaceuticals are complicated topics. Heroin is poison. A small amount of codeine in your cough syrup isn't. Getting black out drunk is hard on your body. Absorbing a little bit of alcohol from your mouthwash isn't.

    Narcotic overuse/over prescription/addiction is a huge problem (and the pharmaceutical/health care system shares a massive chunk of the blame for this) but so is society's knee jerk reactions and ignorant solutions to issues they don't fully understand.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    I do not understand the allure of pain meds. I've been prescribed after surgery and they did not give me any sort of buzz or good feeling. Just constipation. How do these addicts ever take a shit?
    Sadly there is a specific medication to help chronic opiate users shit. That means they got so many hooked on pills, a secondary opportunity arose to write additional scripts.
    Like the old looney toons with each successive animal brought into a hotel room to rid the prior animal. A never ending cycle. That is until the patient dies.


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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Yeah, not convinced (and you were one of the dicks who said a kidney stone is a perfectly fine use for legal heroin) you need to take these at home.

    Alcohol is far less deadly (as a ratio of deaths per user and is not as addictive to begin with) and tobacco takes fucking decades to bring you down. It also is well fucking known tobacco will kill you and isn't prescribed by doctors to "help" you. Nor is alcohol prescribed to help you either. I ultimately would shed zero tears if you got rid of tobacco though (and I say this as a former smoker).

    You do not need to take heroin at home to ease your pain. The human race has proven they can't handle that shit without dying at alarming rates. Suck it the fuck up, pain doesn't kill you, and there are other alternatives, albeit ones that don't completely numb you to the world. If you do need to be numbed to the world, you can do so in a hospital under the guidance of people who know what they are doing.
    Pain does kill you as any surgeon who does chest or abdominal surgery knows. You dont control the pain you get pneumonia. Since you want us to suck it up should we get rid of anesthetics too?

    Obviously you or someone close to you has had very bad experience with opiates, or are you just this angry in general? If so there's a pill for that.

  14. #164
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    Please send me one piece of evidence that someone needing at home treatment for pain came down with pneumonia as a result. Otherwise, I would say that sounds like something that should be handled at a hospital, you know, like most surgeries/complications/similar treatments.

    I will be fair and admit I grew up in the Northeast, and am of the age demo that really felt the brunt of this epidemic. So as a result I know more than 1 or 2 people that died as a result. That doesn't change my opinion on the matter that the juice (at home treatment) is worth the squeeze (current epidemic).

    However, I'd be willing to compromise and say if you want to die at home all jacked up on drugs from terminal cancer, then you should be able to do that. But the 99.9% of other reasons, fuck no.
    Live Free or Die

  15. #165
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    Sounds like Nancy. Surprise!
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  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Please send me one piece of evidence that someone needing at home treatment for pain came down with pneumonia as a result. Otherwise, I would say that sounds like something that should be handled at a hospital, you know, like most surgeries/complications/similar treatments.
    But, that's the whole point of more and more pills.. less and less $$$$professionally monitored hospital care$$$$ Saves BigInsruance, employers, top tax bracket earners etc.. billions. Reagan funded the 30% tax cuts for the rich by closing down the network of mental hospitals so that we can try to keep our messed up relatives doped up in the basement or out on the streets begging for money and sleeping under bridges. WINNING!
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    But, that's the whole point of more and more pills.. less and less $$$$professionally monitored hospital care$$$$ Saves BigInsruance, employers, top tax bracket earners etc.. billions. Reagan funded the 30% tax cuts for the rich by closing down the network of mental hospitals so that we can try to keep our messed up relatives doped up in the basement or out on the streets begging for money and sleeping under bridges. WINNING!
    doctors and hospitals may way more money on a patient in hospital then they do at home.

    " Rah rah hospitals and insurance companies and doctors just want to rob us! Health care is too expensive! But we don't want to be sent home either! They're just trying to send us home to save money! Keep us in the hospital where we belong! Let's rack up more bills so I can be bankrupted"

    fuck me do you guys know anyone who has ever died from a terminal illness before? Can you imagine having the choice of dying in some giant gross hospital versus at home? Especially if the only thing keeping you in hospital is that you weren't allowed to take pain medication at home?

    If you haven't dealt with this reality yet you likely will. Hopefully it will be far enough in the future that this thread is a distant memory to you.

    I'm not defending the over medication of society (and the mental health crisis is another topic entirely) - I just don't see things so black and white as you do. Count yourself lucky if you haven't had to see someone suffer incredible amounts of pain due an illness like bone cancer or something - there's not enough weed in the world to manage that pain.

  18. #168
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    An open letter to all the pushers of Oxycontin.....

    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    doctors and hospitals may way more money on a patient in hospital then they do at home.

    " Rah rah hospitals and insurance companies and doctors just want to rob us! Health care is too expensive! But we don't want to be sent home either! They're just trying to send us home to save money! Keep us in the hospital where we belong! Let's rack up more bills so I can be bankrupted"

    fuck me do you guys know anyone who has ever died from a terminal illness before? Can you imagine having the choice of dying in some giant gross hospital versus at home? Especially if the only thing keeping you in hospital is that you weren't allowed to take pain medication at home?

    If you haven't dealt with this reality yet you likely will. Hopefully it will be far enough in the future that this thread is a distant memory to you.

    I'm not defending the over medication of society (and the mental health crisis is another topic entirely) - I just don't see things so black and white as you do. Count yourself lucky if you haven't had to see someone suffer incredible amounts of pain due an illness like bone cancer or something - there's not enough weed in the world to manage that pain.
    Fuck you and your reasonable sensibilities.

    Pick a side dammit!


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  19. #169
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    I know way too many people who have died in a lot of pain. The most comfortable, best accommodations involve full in home hospice nursing care, with doctors on call. My dad died in a VA hospital, which was still preferable to being at home without 24/7 professional care.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  20. #170
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    My mom just died last month, at home. She had had dementia for a while and by the end, all she could do was moan. She hadn't recognized me for years.

    She had a deep fear of hospitals and nursing homes and there was some unspoken deal that she would stay at home.

    So I paid for her care over the last couple of years after my dad passed. Not fun. When the nurse practitioner prescribed morphine because mom was in pain, she got it and she stopped moaning.

    None of this shit is simple.

    Some people are addicts and prone to abusing drugs, including alcohol, which by far kills more people than smack does.

    I lost both my brother and mom to alcohol and I really liked smack the times I did it, but there's something in me that turns away from habits like that. Some people are just not so lucky.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  21. #171
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    ^^^I get it. My mom's in assisted living and about halfway there. It's like going back to the 1970s every time I visit her. I can leave and go get something to eat and when I return she acts like I haven't been there in decades because she has no memory function left... assuming she recognizes me at all.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  22. #172
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    I am way more afraid of losing my mind than my body. Lived through it both ways. Both suck.

  23. #173
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    Some of you guys get it. It's very complicated. Society is being trained to read tweets and headllines and brief quotes and then just accept them as fact. There is a tendency to boil every controversial topic down into two sides. This isn't going to fit into a "opiods are good! No they are not they are bad!" box.

    Some of the people posting in this thread can't even decide what side they are on of the imaginary divide they have created. No opiods except in the hospital! Doctors, the only ones who can prescribe opiods in the hospital, are just trying to over medicate us to get rich! Weed cures everything!

    All chemicals and drugs can be poisons if the dose is high enough. You can kill yourself by drinking too much water in a day.

    Turns out this topic, like many others, doesn't fit into the "and it's gonna be so easy!" rhetoric that seems to work on 50% of the population.

  24. #174
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    An open letter to all the pushers of Oxycontin.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    snip **correction** Tons of kids started with the prescription drugs, some for fun and some because they were prescribed. Many moved to heroin to meet their addiction because it was way cheaper to get. Bad batches laced with../snip
    Wanted to make a correction/clarification on what I wrote above earlier in the thread: rarely would opiates be the introductory drug. A lot of kids took a wide range of different drugs. Opiates were the most fatal, by leaps and bounds.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdironRider View Post
    Please send me one piece of evidence that someone needing at home treatment for pain came down with pneumonia as a result. Otherwise, I would say that sounds like something that should be handled at a hospital, you know, like most surgeries/complications/similar treatments.

    I will be fair and admit I grew up in the Northeast, and am of the age demo that really felt the brunt of this epidemic. So as a result I know more than 1 or 2 people that died as a result. That doesn't change my opinion on the matter that the juice (at home treatment) is worth the squeeze (current epidemic).

    However, I'd be willing to compromise and say if you want to die at home all jacked up on drugs from terminal cancer, then you should be able to do that. But the 99.9% of other reasons, fuck no.
    I don't have a case to cite because I never let my patients suffer with too much pain, but patients getting pneumonia because they hurt too much to breathe deeply or cough is well known in the medical profession. I do know that of the many thousands of patients to whom I have prescribed outpatient opiates I know of none who died or became addicted. Because I practiced in a closed system I would have been told--and hauled up before the quality committee--if a patient became addicted because of my prescription and I would have been investigated by the coroner if any had died of an OD. I was very careful to monitor all my opiate patients, prescribe appropriate amounts, avoid escalating doses, and make sure they were able to function.

    I have had two very major operations this year., both times hospitalized for 10 days. I could not have tolerated being kept a day longer in the hospital either time and I could not tolerated going home on Tylenol only (NSAIDS are contraindicated in my condition). Maybe I'm just a wuss--but I have had server lumbar stenosis and multiple rib fractures and never took opiates for either. {Contrary to what some may want to believe both times I was hospitalized longer than I would have liked; no one tried to kick me out before I was ready. And before you say the hospital kept me in for revenue--as a Medicare patient the hospital is paid by the diagnosis, not by the day.)

    When patients get into trouble from prescription opiates it's not because of bad drugs but bad medical practice the great majority of the time.

    The highest duty of a physician is to relieve suffering. Evidence of opioid use has been found in mid 6th millenium archeology sites and its use is well documented among the Sumerians, Egyptians, and Greeks.

    I'm curious as to the worst injury you have suffered without taking outpatient opiates.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14533321 (no profit motive for pushing drugs--the study is from Great Britain.)

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