Review: 08 Liberty

[lemon boy]

I definitely prefer the new design but the items that disqualify the old ones for me are:
Cargo area simply too small (200cm skis will not fit diagonally IMO)
Seats do not fold flat.

My brother's fiance has one and it's okay but those two items would drive me batshit crazy.

[jrredho]

wow, the timing couldnt be better. im
looking for a new vehicle now. was looking just at a wrangler for the
4x4 and convertible, but then started thinking that maybe more cargo
space and towing capacity might be worth it to sacrifice the
convertible. (dont know yet)

This is one of the reasons why I was asking lemon boy about swapping
out his ring and pinion. It seems that folks are throwing the whole
Wrangler v Whatever in there based on power/torque capabilities, and,
at $12k difference (as it is compared to the Liberty), the Wrangler is
a pretty expensive option. You would be able to have a r-and-p swap
done at a shop for less than $2k. You could do this, and without
lifting it (I don't even know why I mentioned body lift earlier since
the the Liberty is unibody), put on some decent light truck tires and
have a pretty capable truck relative to the Wrangler.

If the capabilities comparison is based on the four wheel drive
system, I think that Jeeps transfer cases are common to all of their
vehicles; I also think that all of their 4wds have solid front hubs,
so no having to lock/engage them. I've had a really good experience
with that the simplest 4wd system in my XJ, which is of the part time
variety. I also have limited-slip in my rear diff.

Before I bought my Jeep, I was warned that they tended to have some
flaky-ness in regards to fit and finish, electrics, etc, but that
their drive trains are pretty hard to beat. This has been consistent
with my experience.

Finally, I don't think that the Wrangler is such a capable vehicle
when it comes to driving on snow and ice; it's got a really short
wheelbase, which means it has a tendency to spin. I'd look into this
factor deeper if I were considering one of them.

cheers,
john

[El Chupacabra]

This is one of the reasons why I was asking lemon boy about swapping
out his ring and pinion. It seems that folks are throwing the whole
Wrangler v Whatever in there based on power/torque capabilities, and,
at $12k difference (as it is compared to the Liberty), the Wrangler is
a pretty expensive option. You would be able to have a r-and-p swap
done at a shop for less than $2k. You could do this, and without
lifting it (I don't even know why I mentioned body lift earlier since
the the Liberty is unibody), put on some decent light truck tires and
have a pretty capable truck relative to the Wrangler.

If you swapped axle gears, you'd also void your lifetime powertrain warranty on anything in those axles -- at the very least. Worst case scenario is you have a crappy dealer who decides this voids your entire warranty. Not worth it IMHO.

Finally, I don't think that the Wrangler is such a capable vehicle
when it comes to driving on snow and ice; it's got a really short
wheelbase, which means it has a tendency to spin. I'd look into this
factor deeper if I were considering one of them.

I've had many Jeeps, currently down to just a LJ Rubicon (long wheelbase TJ-style Wrangler). Even though the wheelbase in it is longer than on my old XJs, it is far worse in snow & ice. Part of it is the mud tires (though even with mud tires on one XJ, it wasn't as sketchy as the LJ), part of it is the suspension -- the coils all around are soft, which is great offroad, but a bit loose onroad.

I don't drive the LJ in snow/ice. Anyone considering a Wrangler for their only vehicle, and intending to drive in snow/ice regularly, is masochistic or doesn't know what they're getting into.

The WJ I just sold had the best snow & ice handling of any Jeep I've had. Stock height, stiffer rear swaybar (too much body roll stock), snow tires, and fulltime 4WD, and it was great.

[jrredho]

Okay, I promise this is my last post on this, but...

If you swapped axle gears, you'd also
void your lifetime powertrain warranty on anything in those axles --
at the very least. Worst case scenario is you have a crappy dealer
who decides this voids your entire warranty. Not worth it IMHO.

...I seriously doubt that this is the case. Jeep dealers themselves
very often encourage mods---especially lift kits, and I know that
lifts below 3in do not affect warranties on parts that aren't directly
involved in the lift itself. I wouldn't expect Jeep to warranty newly
installed parts, unless they were Jeep OEM and installed by a Jeep
dealer, but they'd have to prove that the parts you added was the
cause of a failure of something else in the drivetrain to void
warranty repairs on that something else. There is a Federal law that
requires that: the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This same law would
prevent them from voiding the entire drivetrain warranty just because
you replaced the ring and pinion.

I've had many Jeeps, currently down to
just a LJ Rubicon (long wheelbase TJ-style Wrangler). Even though the
wheelbase in it is longer than on my old XJs, it is far worse in snow
& ice. Part of it is the mud tires (though even with mud tires on one
XJ, it wasn't as sketchy as the LJ), part of it is the suspension --
the coils all around are soft, which is great offroad, but a bit loose
onroad.

If you had this as an off-road vehicle, did you happen to have lockers
on it? I've heard that these are the absolute worst option to have in
snow and ice.

The WJ I just sold had the best snow &
ice handling of any Jeep I've had. Stock height, stiffer rear swaybar
(too much body roll stock), snow tires, and fulltime 4WD, and it was
great.

Thanks for that info!

cheers,
john

[lemon boy]

There is a Federal law that
requires that: the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This same law would
prevent them from voiding the entire drivetrain warranty just because
you replaced the ring and pinion.

sorry man but the MMA does not provide even close to the coverage that you are saying it does. Jeep may be better than other co's especially with lifts but that isn't a function of MMA compliance.

[El Chupacabra]

...I seriously doubt that this is the case. Jeep dealers themselves
very often encourage mods---especially lift kits, and I know that
lifts below 3in do not affect warranties on parts that aren't directly
involved in the lift itself. I wouldn't expect Jeep to warranty newly
installed parts, unless they were Jeep OEM and installed by a Jeep
dealer, but they'd have to prove that the parts you added was the
cause of a failure of something else in the drivetrain to void
warranty repairs on that something else. There is a Federal law that
requires that: the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. This same law would
prevent them from voiding the entire drivetrain warranty just because
you replaced the ring and pinion.

There's the letter of the law, and then there's enforcement. Do you want to sue the dealership in order to make a warranty claim? Yes, it's possible, but the cost of doing so makes this a losing proposition.

The sketchy onroad snow/ice handling of my LJ is because it's a Wrangler. The 10" of extra wheelbase over a TJ doesn't change the handling that much. All Rubicons have factory air lockers, so they're not locked while in normal onroad conditions. FWIW, my XJ had a rear Detroit (fully automatic locker), which is not the best idea for snow/ice driving, but even with the rear locker it handled better in snow/ice than the LJ.

[splat]

Jeezuz, I thought this was a review of Liberty skis, so when I started reading it, I thought LB had gone off the deep end.
turns out it was me.....heh.

[AbsolutStoli]

It seems that folks are throwing the whole
Wrangler v Whatever in there based on power/torque capabilities, and,
at $12k difference (as it is compared to the Liberty), the Wrangler is
a pretty expensive option.

well, im not looking at the new wrangler, im looking at the tj. ive always liked the wrangler, wanted one in HS but never got one, and the tj is in that range where its not too old and there are ones with decent miles on them, and theres a possibility of finding one for around 12k (i hope). im looking for a 4x4 for the peace of mind and occasional off roading (easy trails and access to camping, etc.). but the biggest draw for the wrangler is the convertible.

however, now im not so sure if the drop-top is worth the loss of utility that id be getting from something like a liberty or similar. from what ive read, the liberty is perfectly capable off-road, at least for what id want out of it. plus much more cargo space and better towing capacity than wrangler.

so even though all this talk about modding the drivetrain is interesting, i really have no plans to do anything like that. maybe suspension and tires, perhaps body armor and rack...but thats really it.

now, if i can only find one with a manual tranny in the area for around 12k....with decent miles.

anyway, thanks for the review and info.

[lemon boy]

stoli- I know you don't want to spend so much but you can get the new liberties with the "Sky Slider" which is damn close to a convertable.

[AbsolutStoli]

its not really that i dont want to spend that much, its that i really cant afford it in my new career. haha.

did you consider any other suvs besides the liberty? i know the xterra and fj cruiser are in that same playing field, although a bit more $$. or maybe the escape or blazer? if so, what were your reasons for not going with any of those?

[lemon boy]

escape is not gonna be wheelin enough for me (would be good for the wife though)
blazer is not wheelin enough and no manuals

seriously, the offroadable vehicles with manual transmissions that get better than 16.5mpg combined = FJ, Libby, Unlimited, Xterra. GAT. I'm pretty unflexible on those basic requirements.

[Blatant]

nice post there lem. good info.

[Blatant]

check out this la berty.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/foru...hlight=liberty

some ideas for you lb.

[altasnowbirdripper]

Funny, we bought a 4 door Wranlger last fall and after my wife & I finally got to ride in the 08 Liberty, my wife definitely wishes we would have bought one instead (I'm still in a bit of denial). I love the Wrangler but think the Liberty would suit any off-roading I would ever do just fine but is a ton more comfortable. Our Wrangler is a Rubicon and has that oh so familiar "spartan" jeep interior - just the bare necessities. I'm sure you'll get way better gas mileage too - we seem to average 18mpg around town and 24mpg on the highway. Oh well, still damn fun to drive but maybe I should have not been so gun ho when I first saw the jeep we bought on the lot. She was just too damn sexy to pass up! (she was topless ) - The new Liberty is excellent!