GUNS!!!!!!!!

[highangle]

JFC

[thebirdhunter]

Ever heard of letting barrels cool between shots and why that's important? They aren't shooting 22's.

shhhhhh, let the kid think he knows what he's talking about.

[leroy jenkins]

shhhhhh, let the kid think he knows what he's talking about.

Hey all the guys on ar15.com are totally impressed with all my tacticool bullshit.


Nah, I'm pretty sure zion knows more than me, but that doesn't mean I am wrong either. Wanting to burst my bubble because I sound a bit too much like an internet baddass does not mean what I say about hunters isn't true.

Its the same thing as 'hunter's' who spend their hunting season mostly sitting around camp drinking happy to be taking a vacation from the wife and kids. You guys really going to tell me that isn't a thing? Heck, half of them just admit as much and offer you a beer if you stop and talk to them. I mean whatever, god bless em, but hearing less range time being described as a good thing is pretty odd, and honestly slightly scary.

If you blow a deer's jaw off you should feel like a douche, but inaccurate hunters shooting at uncertain targets at close range in brush is what leads to people getting mistaken for game and shot. Tell me I am wrong. It isn't the inaccuracy that makes them shoot people obviously, at that point their inaccuracy would increase your survival, but its shitty marksmen that find themselves making the choice to pull the trigger in that situation.

I totally get the ethical responsibility to the animal, but hunters that disdain marksmanship scare me honesty. It isn't quite the level of negligence as a CCW holder who has no idea what they are doing but still carries, but it is similar.


Anyone know what percentage of firearms accidents are hunting related?

[highangle]

[thebirdhunter]

Come on, no one wants to explain to this guy the difference between hot and cold barrels and hunting situations with your hunting rifle vs. defending your toilet paper stash from an unruly mob of looters and arsonist with your AR?

[BobMc]

Come on, no one wants to explain to this guy the difference between hot and cold barrels and hunting situations with your hunting rifle vs. defending your toilet paper stash from an unruly mob of looters and arsonist with your AR?

You try and take my toilet paper and I’m gonna be sending 20 .30 caliber rounds at you faster than you can dodge them!

[The Reverend Floater]

Thanks for sharing that. Funny he didn't mention the Remington ammo factories they bought last year.

[Jacques Strap]

Bunch of guys...shooting the shit

hunters that proficiency with a rifle is not important...ride around on ATVs scaring the game away

what I say about hunters isn't true....sitting around camp drinking happy to be taking a vacation from the wife and kids...shitty marksmen...hunters that disdain marksmanship scare me honesty...CCW holder who has no idea what they are doing

I'll tell you what, you say you're not an expert shooter and not much of a hunter, but you're certainly an expert builder of straw men. And you can hunt the shit outta them too.

Tell me I am wrong...Anyone know what percentage of firearms accidents are hunting related?

You're wrong.

Most accidents hunting aren't firearm related, most are vehicles, falling from trees, and just plain falling. And when they are firearm related, they tend to be fairly mundane negligence or handling accidents, especially crossing fences and getting in and out of vehicles. This "accidentally shooting a hunter thinking they're an animal" is largely myth.

And regarding firearm accidents in general, the most common incident by far is suicide, followed by homicide, both of which are considered intentional. Of the much smaller percentage that account for unintentional fatalities, hunting does get mentioned, but at a lower rate than "playing with a gun" or "thinking a loaded gun was unloaded". Other than that, it seems to be a lot of handling accidents.

[Jacques Strap]

I agree with nearly everything you said, Rev. Floater. I don't want to be misunderstood: as I've said from the beginning of all this, a hunter must be proficient with his firearm. He has a moral obligation to be.

the only unforgivable mistake is a wounded or otherwise compromised animal--a mistake made when we botch the act of killing

Fantastically put, I couldn't agree more.

real fundamentals and mechanics of proper rifle shooting...classes and lots of practice...homework to learn the basics first...killing should be the most practiced part, the part you're automatic at--the easiest part.

Exactly, I have no quibble with that at all.

If this is your thesis...

Not exactly.

My thesis is that regardless of skill level or quality of equipment, there are shots that should never be taken on game. Having the capability to make a high degree of difficulty shot with a high probability of success, doesn't give you the right to take that shot. You should either A) position yourself to take a low degree of difficulty shot, B) take aim on a region with a lower risk of wounding, or C) pass on the animal. There are intrinsic uncontrollable factors and any elevated risk of failure is too high; keeping in mind that I am fully aware there are no foolproof shots, but as you eloquently put it, it is our obligation to the game to maximize the chances of a clean kill. Wounding an animal while taking a shot with a high degree of difficulty, for whatever reason, is an irredeemable sin.

It follows that since shots requiring expert shooting prowess shouldn't ever be attempted while hunting, hunters don't need to be expert marksmen. This isn't my main point, but is a consequence stemming from my main point. And again, I'm not saying Bubba should drag out his Marlin on opening day from it's year-long interment in the closet, brush the dust off, and take to the woods. While a hunter doesn't need to be an expert marksman, he absolutely must be a pretty good or pretty damn good marksman. He must be familiar with the operation of his rifle, memorize his ballistics, know his zero, understand the impact of wind, have rock solid trigger control and breathing techniques, shoot often enough to maintain his capabilities, and most importantly, know his limitations.

Being better than that is beneficial, laudable, and really fucking cool. And there's truth to the approach of practicing at a higher level than you will play. But you don't need to be an expert driver to go your whole life without ever getting into a car accident.

[Jacques Strap]

CS2-6...we're all good dude.

Right on, man.

[exsparky]

Cliffs notes-
Our employees are wearing masks!
Reloader's - eat a dick for the next 3 years. We make way more money on hunting ammo, so you get the shaft on primers.
We know this is a short term increase in demand.
Stop asking for more primer capacity, it won't happen.

[pepperdawg]

Is this why I cant find 777 primers for muzzleloading....?

[highangle]

Cliffs notes-
Our employees are wearing masks!
Reloader's - eat a dick for the next 3 years. We make way more money on hunting ammo, so you get the shaft on primers.
We know this is a short term increase in demand.
Stop asking for more primer capacity, it won't happen.

"We make more $$ on cartridges, esp these days when we can sell them to retailers for cash instead of net10eom. Our stockholders would bust our balls if we did anything else."

[highangle]

I agree with nearly everything you said, Rev. Floater. I don't want to be misunderstood: as I've said from the beginning of all this, a hunter must be proficient with his firearm. He has a moral obligation to be.

Fantastically put, I couldn't agree more.

Exactly, I have no quibble with that at all.

Not exactly.

My thesis is that regardless of skill level or quality of equipment, there are shots that should never be taken on game. Having the capability to make a high degree of difficulty shot with a high probability of success, doesn't give you the right to take that shot. You should either A) position yourself to take a low degree of difficulty shot, B) take aim on a region with a lower risk of wounding, or C) pass on the animal. There are intrinsic uncontrollable factors and any elevated risk of failure is too high; keeping in mind that I am fully aware there are no foolproof shots, but as you eloquently put it, it is our obligation to the game to maximize the chances of a clean kill. Wounding an animal while taking a shot with a high degree of difficulty, for whatever reason, is an irredeemable sin.

It follows that since shots requiring expert shooting prowess shouldn't ever be attempted while hunting, hunters don't need to be expert marksmen. This isn't my main point, but is a consequence stemming from my main point. And again, I'm not saying Bubba should drag out his Marlin on opening day from it's year-long interment in the closet, brush the dust off, and take to the woods. While a hunter doesn't need to be an expert marksman, he absolutely must be a pretty good or pretty damn good marksman. He must be familiar with the operation of his rifle, memorize his ballistics, know his zero, understand the impact of wind, have rock solid trigger control and breathing techniques, shoot often enough to maintain his capabilities, and most importantly, know his limitations.

Being better than that is beneficial, laudable, and really fucking cool. And there's truth to the approach of practicing at a higher level than you will play. But you don't need to be an expert driver to go your whole life without ever getting into a car accident.

Hear hear!

Hunting is not punching paper with a toy to achieve Zen and amusement, hunting is life and death.
The cost of fucking up hunting shot placement is most often borne by an innocent and magnificent wild animal, and everyone else who contributed to the management and opportunity.
The asshole who is too egotistical or stupid to give a fuck about that would be better served to take his enjoyment on the range and high fence whorehouses where he can get what he pays for.

[leroy jenkins]

I'll tell you what, you say you're not an expert shooter and not much of a hunter, but you're certainly an expert builder of straw men. And you can hunt the shit outta them too.

You're wrong.

Most accidents hunting aren't firearm related, most are vehicles, falling from trees, and just plain falling. And when they are firearm related, they tend to be fairly mundane negligence or handling accidents, especially crossing fences and getting in and out of vehicles. This "accidentally shooting a hunter thinking they're an animal" is largely myth.

And regarding firearm accidents in general, the most common incident by far is suicide, followed by homicide, both of which are considered intentional. Of the much smaller percentage that account for unintentional fatalities, hunting does get mentioned, but at a lower rate than "playing with a gun" or "thinking a loaded gun was unloaded". Other than that, it seems to be a lot of handling accidents.

That isn't what strawman means. A strawman is constructing a weaker version of someone's argument so as to more easily attack it. I illustrated examples of a stereotype to illustrate a point.

You last two paragraphs are factual and I do not debate them.



Ok, honest question, since using a bow is perfectly ethical, if you can be good enough at the non firearms related aspects of hunting to get within bow hunting distance, would a head shot then be ok at similar distances? I'd like more opinions than just yours, anyone else? Zion?

[mangle]

Another fun article - gyro-stabilized rifles

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...ad-weapon.html

[The Reverend Floater]

That isn't what strawman means. A strawman is constructing a weaker version of someone's argument so as to more easily attack it. I illustrated examples of a stereotype to illustrate a point.

You last two paragraphs are factual and I do not debate them.



Ok, honest question, since using a bow is perfectly ethical, if you can be good enough at the non firearms related aspects of hunting to get within bow hunting distance, would a head shot then be ok at similar distances? I'd like more opinions than just yours, anyone else? Zion?

The two times I've gotten within archery range with a rife, I've shot the animal in the neck pretty confidently. Less wasted meat!

[Harry]

Another fun article - gyro-stabilized rifles

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...ad-weapon.html

The Navy had almost the exact same thing 40 years ago, only attached to binoculars. Basically same size, only real difference is battery technology, ours were powered by a cord with 3-phase power. Pretty wild in rough seas. I remember one enterprising young sailer duct taped one to a M60, sort of worked until the barrel heat melted the tape 🤡


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[mangle]

The Navy had almost the exact same thing 40 years ago, only attached to binoculars. Basically same size, only real difference is battery technology, ours were powered by a cord with 3-phase power. Pretty wild in rough seas. I remember one enterprising young sailer duct taped one to a M60, sort of worked until the barrel heat melted the tape ��


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

From a few days back - https://taskandpurpose.com/military-...iron-man-suit/

Gyros are fun.

[highangle]

^^^ Gyros are fun and inertial, but if it comes down to it, I'd prob load out another mag, or at least some jelli bellis power gels porn and ripped fuel, in lieu of a 3lb spinny thing on my next backpack hunt.
But have to admit a felafel sounds like the tits on a sniper system, mounted between bipod and barrel...

How long before this trickles down to the long range hunting community, with a phone app with splitscreen digiscope and mp3 feed which controls a robotic 3D adjustable truck mount benchrest sled via wifi, so kids can enjoy long range hunting too?

[mangle]

That's been my day job for the last few years. They work pretty well out of helicopters, and a silhouette at 4-500 yards becomes a pretty easy standing, unsupported shot. Not at all bad for ~.5 lb.

And the long range world - lots of stuff like that on the backburner.

[leroy jenkins]

The two times I've gotten within archery range with a rife, I've shot the animal in the neck pretty confidently. Less wasted meat!

Yea, that is kind of what I was thinking, although I admit ignorance, but ya, a 308 or bigger through somethings neck seems like the quickest most humane death. Better and not much harder than a lung shot and way less tricky than a head shot.

That's been my day job for the last few years. They work pretty well out of helicopters, and a silhouette at 4-500 yards becomes a pretty easy standing, unsupported shot. Not at all bad for ~.5 lb.

And the long range world - lots of stuff like that on the backburner.

That is pretty cool. I fucking suck shooting standing with a rifle.

[mangle]

That is pretty cool. I fucking suck shooting standing with a rifle.

Thanks! If you're ever in Jackson, let me know and come play with one.

[highangle]

Yea, that is kind of what I was thinking, although I admit ignorance, but ya, a 308 or bigger through somethings neck seems like the quickest most humane death. Better and not much harder than a lung shot and way less tricky than a head shot.

Plus, your trophy antlers, horns, or B/C bear skull getting exploded to fuck with expanding bullets might be regarded as a bit déclassé on the SCI banquet circuit...

That is pretty cool. I fucking suck shooting standing with a rifle.

Now imagine you're an ivory hunter, shooting from a 3rd-world helicopter...Some guys need all the angular momentum they can get...

[highangle]

About 1970?