GUNS!!!!!!!!

[Talisman]

If you want a hunting rifle, buy a bolt action with a nice optic. You'll gain accuracy, lose weight and have the right tool for the job.

This! Please get a large enough round for the job of taking the elk down with one shot within your range of capability.

[highangle]

I think we've discussed this here before but a 6.5CM can certainly kill elk dead, but it's simply less forgiving than a more traditional elk cartridge. 143g ELD-X is about as lethal as it's going to get.

It's personal preference and tolerance but I like knowing my .300WM is basically a power button on elk. That said, I love my 6.5CM for muleys.

300 WSM is pretty sweet...
Norma Bondstrike 180gr [0.615bc] 3084fps from 24" barrel. 2.9" high @100 = hold zero on 8" target 0 to 350yds, where it's still flying >2550fps and packing >2600 ft/lbs.
@200yds, it's a touch hotter than .30-06 with 180gr Power Point at the muzzle.

[highangle]

This! Please get a large enough round for the job of taking the elk down with one shot within your range of capability.

If every state made it law that blood on the ground=punched tag, we might see more people bragging about sneakin'up on'em to get in can't-miss range than bragging about the $11000 worth of store-bought sniper technology they used to shoot at a jumping heat shimmer from the hood of the truck.

"Hunting" vs "Shooting"

[Conundrum]

I think we've discussed this here before but a 6.5CM can certainly kill elk dead, but it's simply less forgiving than a more traditional elk cartridge. 143g ELD-X is about as lethal as it's going to get.

It was discussed a few pages back. I've been hitting inch groups at 200 which is the only reason I hunted it knowing 200ish would be max distance. Next year in more open country, it will stay in the safe for elk.

[exsparky]

Don't forget how hard those bastards can be to find sometimes after you shoot them even at short ranges.

Increasing that distance isn't needed.



I dropped him next to.... not a god damn thing but waist high brush... and its getting dark.

[The Reverend Floater]

It was discussed a few pages back. I've been hitting inch groups at 200 which is the only reason I hunted it knowing 200ish would be max distance. Next year in more open country, it will stay in the safe for elk.

Hey, not knocking it. Plenty of friends use a 6.5CM on elk and kill them easily. It's not that different than a .270, after all. I just like knowing I can fudge a shot with a .30 and still drop the beast.

[Conundrum]

Hey, not knocking it. Plenty of friends use a 6.5CM on elk and kill them easily. It's not that different than a .270, after all. I just like knowing I can fudge a shot with a .30 and still drop the beast.

I’m knocking it a little. It was fine but I’d prefer more margin.

[Kinnikinnick]

Christ. If I see one more nerd hunting mule deer with an AR...Why do you want a heavy, semi automatic, magazine fed carbine for hunting big game?

If you want a hunting rifle, buy a bolt action with a nice optic. You'll gain accuracy, lose weight and have the right tool for the job.

If you want to prepare for a pretend war, buy a 5.56mm and again have the right tool for the pretend job. You'll save on ammo, feel cool, and you can bedazzle the piss out of that thing.

Yeah I literally said without all that weight.

Dont want a ar15 man crutch for any reason. Besides need more long range power outside the range of all those ar 15 for when Paul Revere the 8th spreads the word that “the red hats are coming, the red hats are coming”
J/K!

The BAR would probably be my first choice as I’d like to be able to rapidly put a 2nd round downrange if I miss the mark and wound the animal.

But seems much cheaper to go Bolt action and if as suggested I should invest more into the glass.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[TNKen]

.338 Lapua Magnum if you need to reach out and touch something. Unfortunately, ammo is kinda pricey.

[AKPogue]

.338 Lapua Magnum if you need to reach out and touch something. Unfortunately, ammo is kinda pricey.

Kind of pricey? 🤣

[zion zig zag]

BAR
The BAR would probably be my first choice as I’d like to be able to rapidly put a 2nd round downrange if I miss the mark and wound the animal.

But seems much cheaper to go Bolt action and if as suggested I should invest more into the glass.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

People have been making quick follow up shots on game with bolt actions forever. Hard to go wrong with a Tikka t3x stainless in common cartridge of your preference (30-06, 7mm RM, 300 wm). Pair it with a sub 16 oz, $500ish scope and you have a light, accurate mountain rifle that'll hunt any game in NA.

As far as the cartridge debate goes, I'm in the camp of erring to the side of more energy and speed and use a 7mm RM myself. But not everyone deals with recoil well, and it can affect their accuracy. After much hand wringing and consternation in this very thread, my son chose a 7mm-08 for his new rifle. And I watched him DRT an elk at 380 yards with it this fall, because at the end of the day shot placement and bullet construction matters.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Agreed. Practice firing, shucking, and firing again without dismounting the rifle. Quick follow ups are easy once you do. And yes, bullets matter more than headstamps.

[highangle]

I bought a BAR because I was living in the Deep South and hunting whitetail in the woods, usually from a climbing stand, where you can't move a step to get a clean shot and anything over 25yd usually means shooting through a hand-sized lane through the vegetation, with a high likelihood of a deflection.
Sometimes in the middle of the day, my buddies and I would meet up and do drives, usually along the edge of a cutover, to flush deer out into the big woods, as most open country in the South is not National Forest...

There's no way a bolt action can keep up with the FN BAR in those thick conditions.

And as a range toy, nothing south of 20lbs has the mild recoil of a gas-operated semiauto with a muzzle brake. Moreover, a semiauto rifle can be carried safely in C1, so a hunter can chamber a round when he starts hunting, and have a ready rifle when he first encounters game. And a box magazine is safer and more convenient to do the necessary around people than any top loader or floorplate rifle.

And the Browning BOSS is a muzzle brake that allows for control of barrel whip and allows the shooter to dial in his rifle to a given load [rather than developing a handload that shoots best in a given rifle]. Modern scientific process control is a wonder. It allows ammo factories to load extremely consistent ammo. So consistent that my BOSS BAR will print 1-hole groups @200 with round nose Power Points [no sense in paying for boattail spitzers in the woods] @ setting 5.5, and will do the same with Federal Nosler Partitions @ 5.8.

In the sagebrush, desert, tundra, or above treeline, a bolt action is really in its element and all the good things about a bolt action far outweigh the pluses of a heavy semi. But in the thick stuff where most American deer & elk & bear live, you can't beat a BAR for bringing home the bacon.

[mcf258]

I bought a BAR because I was living in the Deep South and hunting whitetail in the woods, usually from a climbing stand, where you can't move a step to get a clean shot and anything over 25yd usually means shooting through a hand-sized lane through the vegetation, with a high likelihood of a deflection.
Sometimes in the middle of the day, my buddies and I would meet up and do drives, usually along the edge of a cutover, to flush deer out into the big woods, as most open country in the South is not National Forest...

There's no way a bolt action can keep up with the FN BAR in those thick conditions.

And as a range toy, nothing south of 20lbs has the mild recoil of a gas-operated semiauto with a muzzle brake. Moreover, a semiauto rifle can be carried safely in C1, so a hunter can chamber a round when he starts hunting, and have a ready rifle when he first encounters game. And a box magazine is safer and more convenient to do the necessary around people than any top loader or floorplate rifle.

And the Browning BOSS is a muzzle brake that allows for control of barrel whip and allows the shooter to dial in his rifle to a given load [rather than developing a handload that shoots best in a given rifle]. Modern scientific process control is a wonder. It allows ammo factories to load extremely consistent ammo. So consistent that my BOSS BAR will print 1-hole groups @200 with round nose Power Points [no sense in paying for boattail spitzers in the woods] @ setting 5.5, and will do the same with Federal Nosler Partitions @ 5.8.

In the sagebrush, desert, tundra, or above treeline, a bolt action is really in its element and all the good things about a bolt action far outweigh the pluses of a heavy semi. But in the thick stuff where most American deer & elk & bear live, you can't beat a BAR for bringing home the bacon.

So it's ok for semi-auto users to put shots on game depending on follow up shots to make a kill, but those that choose effective shots at longer ranges w/in their ability should learn "to hunt closer than 6-700yds."

I know I'm an m-series, low post count jong that should keep my mouth shut but I can recognize a double standard when I see one.

[Talisman]

In the sagebrush, desert, tundra, or above treeline, a bolt action is really in its element and all the good things about a bolt action far outweigh the pluses of a heavy semi. But in the thick stuff where most American deer & elk & bear live, you can't beat a BAR for bringing home the bacon.

I don't know about where you live but in SW MT elk and mule deer can be in the timber which isn't thick compared to the Deep South, but elk and mule deer are common in open meadows and agricultural fields. One issue with taking an elk in the timber are the number blow downs that can make getting the meat out difficult even with mules. My 30-06 Browning A-bolt fills an elk tag each season with one shot, but I pass up on long crosswind shots. I know from shooting an heirloom M-1 Garand my aim gets worse with each follow up shot when quickly squeezing off shots, but a BAR with a muzzle brake may help me.

[highangle]

So it's ok for semi-auto users to put shots on game depending on follow up shots to make a kill, but those that choose effective shots at longer ranges w/in their ability should learn "to hunt closer than 6-700yds."

I know I'm an m-series, low post count jong that should keep my mouth shut but I can recognize a double standard when I see one.

I've never taken a shot on a deer or an elk that I knew was going to require a follow-up. Some, however, did. It takes so little to deflect even a blunt bullet with high sectional density, that shit happens in the woods that doesn't happen as much in E Ore.

Neither of the black bears I killed with that BAR needed a 2nd shot, which was a good thing since they were under 50yds and I was on the ground with them. If I ever shoot a grizzly with it, he's getting the whole mag if I can give it to him before he piles up. Probably even then too.

I don't know about where you live but in SW MT elk and mule deer can be in the timber which isn't thick compared to the Deep South, but elk and mule deer are common in open meadows and agricultural fields. One issue with taking an elk in the timber are the number blow downs that can make getting the meat out difficult even with mules. My 30-06 Browning A-bolt fills an elk tag each season with one shot, but I pass up on long crosswind shots. I know from shooting an heirloom M-1 Garand my aim gets worse with each follow up shot when quickly squeezing off shots, but a BAR with a muzzle brake may help me.

It still jumps and flashes with a large caliber, but using a larger caliber than one would ordinarily in a bolt gun is another selling point of the low recoil BAR. And a70-yard elk trotting through the timber becomes much more killable when you can get a second shot off in less than a second.

I'd also recommend hearing protection with a BOSS rifle, esp if you fire it prone. The BOSS CR, a BOSS system without the ports, is probably better for the hunter who doesn't have expensive electronic hearing pro that he can wear full time while hunting. While not so bad to the shooter and those behind him, Any brake or barrel ports make a .30-06 sound like a .375 to the people at the range tables on either side. Magnums are worse...
But for a hunter who doesn't reload and spend hours on cold barrel load development, yet who still wants to experience the joys of a half minute rifle, being able to dial the rifle into that perfect cartridge may be very worth the $200 and a louder rifle, and a bit of extra weight vs a crowned muzzle.

https://www.browning.com/support/fre...ss-system.html

[Jacques Strap]

Jesus Christ... every 10 pages or so we have the same fucking argument. Generally, I'm wit highangle on this one.

Long distances and head/neck shots are for professional shooters, not any of us. Tacticool rifles/cartridges are for tactical applications. For hunting, making a big whole is all that matters. Carry something light(ish) in at least .243 for deer, at least .308 for elk, and at least .300 for elk.

And get better at hunting, less time at the range, and even less at the gunstore.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Oh no. More time at the range is always better. Practicing in field positions, not on the bench.

[Jacques Strap]

More time at the range

My point being, if you need expert level shooting ability to make a shot, that's a shot you shouldn't ethically be taking. With the exception of certain game (mountain goats, antelope), you shouldn't be attempting shots with a high degree of difficulty. Get closer. Hunt better. Pass on low-probability shots.

For most game, you only need to be a decent shot. Once you have achieved that skill level, I can't see the need to spend more than an hour or two at the range once a month. More is fun, of course, but probably unnecessary for most rifle situations.

[mcf258]

My point being, if you need expert level shooting ability to make a shot, that's a shot you shouldn't ethically be taking. With the exception of certain game (mountain goats, antelope), you shouldn't be attempting shots with a high degree of difficulty. Get closer. Hunt better. Pass on low-probability shots.

For most game, you only need to be a decent shot. Once you have achieved that skill level, I can't see the need to spend more than an hour or two at the range once a month. More is fun, of course, but probably unnecessary for most rifle situations.

My point being Higangle says "shooting through a hand-sized lane through the vegetation, with a high likelihood of a deflection" and shooting at "elk trotting through the timber" are ethical shots, depending on quick follow ups and a larger caliber facilitated by a semi-auto, but long range shots w/in one's ability are not. It's up to each one of us to determine if shots are ethical or not. I'm perfectly capable of making that decision for myself. Comments like "hunt better" or "blood on the ground=punched tag" are disrespectful and unnecessary to make your case.

I stated I hunt elk exclusively w a bow because of Idaho's regulations so I have the concept of getting as close as possible to the target well in mind. Obviously if there is a route and time to close the distance any ethical hunter would. I'm prepared to shoot at greater distances than some, but I'm sure there are others willing to shoot at greater distances than me. If everyone limits there shots to ranges and conditions that they have practiced under we'll all be fine.

[TNKen]

Find you a decent rifle in an appropriate caliber for your quarry. Pick up some ammo if you don't reload and get comfortable with the gun. I don't reload rifle ammo, but Federal Gold Medal Match is the standard. Once you figure out if your rifle likes the ammo, get several boxes of it making sure you check to see if the lot numbers are the same. Ensures consistency. I rarely buy rifle ammo unless I get 500 rounds. If you are a typical hunter, that may last you 10+ years.

Get to a range, start at 50 yards, and work out from there. Do some reading about your particular round, barrel length, and bullet drop Realize that if you zero at 100 yards, you may be 1.5" high at 200, then 2" low at 300. You have to know that shit. Get you a rangefinder as well.

Shooting from a tree stand changes everything.

Here in the Appalachians, a 200 yard shot is an abnormality. Most are 50-125 yards.

[highangle]

My point being Higangle says "shooting through a hand-sized lane through the vegetation, with a high likelihood of a deflection" and shooting at "elk trotting through the timber" are ethical shots, depending on quick follow ups and a larger caliber facilitated by a semi-auto, but long range shots w/in one's ability are not. It's up to each one of us to determine if shots are ethical or not. I'm perfectly capable of making that decision for myself. Comments like "hunt better" or "blood on the ground=punched tag" are disrespectful and unnecessary to make your case.

I stated I hunt elk exclusively w a bow because of Idaho's regulations so I have the concept of getting as close as possible to the target well in mind. Obviously if there is a route and time to close the distance any ethical hunter would. I'm prepared to shoot at greater distances than some, but I'm sure there are others willing to shoot at greater distances than me. If everyone limits there shots to ranges and conditions that they have practiced under we'll all be fine.

One's ability at a range is a different thing than one's ability in a hunting situation. Rally drivers drive at 75-90% of their "ability" to stay alive and upright long enough to finish the race. Hunters who respect their game should stay within 50%, regardless of what douchebag scope salesmen have to say about the subject, because to go beyond that in the field most likely runs too high a risk of wounding + failure to recover - the last thing the ethical hunter wants to accomplish.

[Trying to find that video where the kid wings a broadside caribou twice in the belly because when the pressure was on he used the wrong reticle dots in his geewhizz Gucci scope...]*


And BTW if you ever pay for a guided hunt, blood on the ground means a punched tag and the conclusion of your big game hunt for that species, recovery or not. Ask Ted Nugent...







*edit: Got too many other things to do...But the guy sets the camera & digiscope up on a 400yd shot from an alder thicket to open ground in a slow rain with no wind, and nicks the caribou in the low part of the belly right in front of its tallywhacker. The caribou just jumps and walks a couple steps, thinkin' he got bit by a loud fly. Shooter shucks another 300 mag 165gr round and hits it again in the little piece of skin he dislodged with the first shot [slow motion replay ]...Caribou just looks around, starts walking off. 3rd shot goes high over its back, and caribou runs off over hill. Buddy coming in for lunch shoots caribou 10 seconds later...

The kid had the gear, and could shoot, but his Gucci 2nd focal plane range scope fucked him alll up when the grits met the gravy...

[exsparky]

CONTEST!
How much is somebody asking for this BHP?
Link will be posted after guesses are in. Winner gets a lifetime TGR membership or something.
It was not owned by anybody famous. Its just an English hi power.

HINT- your guess is very low.

[highangle]

My point being, if you need expert level shooting ability to make a shot, that's a shot you shouldn't ethically be taking. With the exception of certain game (mountain goats, antelope), you shouldn't be attempting shots with a high degree of difficulty. Get closer. Hunt better. Pass on low-probability shots.

For most game, you only need to be a decent shot. Once you have achieved that skill level, I can't see the need to spend more than an hour or two at the range once a month. More is fun, of course, but probably unnecessary for most rifle situations.

Find you a decent rifle in an appropriate caliber for your quarry. Pick up some ammo if you don't reload and get comfortable with the gun. I don't reload rifle ammo, but Federal Gold Medal Match is the standard. Once you figure out if your rifle likes the ammo, get several boxes of it making sure you check to see if the lot numbers are the same. Ensures consistency. I rarely buy rifle ammo unless I get 500 rounds. If you are a typical hunter, that may last you 10+ years.

Get to a range, start at 50 yards, and work out from there. Do some reading about your particular round, barrel length, and bullet drop Realize that if you zero at 100 yards, you may be 1.5" high at 200, then 2" low at 300. You have to know that shit. Get you a rangefinder as well.

Shooting from a tree stand changes everything.

Here in the Appalachians, a 200 yard shot is an abnormality. Most are 50-125 yards.

All of this. [500rds is a lot of ammo for a hunting rifle though...] A person doesn't need to be a great shot, or use cloverleaf ammo, to kill the fuck out of game. It makes some shots easier if a person is a dead shot, but it's far from necessary, and it smacks of pride, callowness, or maybe a lack of respect for the Wakan Tanka for a hunter to create, or even take a shot, in most hunting situations that call for a technical shot.

It's fun to train for a $64000 shot across a foreign plain that only you can make...but big game hunting ain't sniping, or range simulation, or vaporizing prairie dogs in the back pasture. It should be done honorably.

[waxman]

CONTEST!
How much is somebody asking for this BHP?
Link will be posted after guesses are in. Winner gets a lifetime TGR membership or something.
It was not owned by anybody famous. Its just an English hi power.

HINT- your guess is very low.

Inglis High Power, made by John Inglis Co. in Toronto during WWII originally under comntract for the Chinese to fight the Japanese but after the first couple of deliveries were not paid for production was rerouted/used by Canada and other Commonwealth countries. With the tangent sight like that it's an early run, it doesn't have the Lend Lease decal on the front strap like it should so in Canada it's a 1,000 to 1500 dollar pistol. Mag looks well used there is frame wear etc.

I've had a couple without the tangent sight from later production and they were great. Still the pistol issued to Canadian troops that need/get pistols, supposedly we have 10's of thousands in storage but being Canada the troops get beat to crap old ones and the NIB ones stay in storage.