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Thread: GUNS!!!!!!!!

  1. #8926
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    Mar 2006
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    Working a deal on a custom STI Grand Master. Sumbich told me, "no hurry" then sold it to someone else. Grrrr.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  2. #8927
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Behind the Potato Curtain
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    In Turkish OU's CZ are finished nicer than Stoeger, that said browse gunbroker and you can likely find a Franchi or other cool used Italian for the same or less than a new CZ. I picked up a Franchi Peregrine 451 for $350 and still haven't found a gun I shoot better (sorry to all my Uggies) and carries as light.

  3. #8928
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Got a Nomad-30 released and haven't had time to shoot it so pretty stoked to get out to the desert today. Really stoked.

    Chrono'd with and without and only a few fps difference...about 10 on average. Shot one group of three for a baseline without the suppressor and then a group of three with to find POI shift. Both groups were sub minute and the suppressed group was 1.5" down and 1.5" right. The suppressed group was a little tighter but the first group without was the first time I shot since pre-covfefe so might have been a touch rusty.

    Then I shot five more groups suppressed to work on zero. The best being 3/8" and the worst 7/8". Had a couple with two touching and one outlier about 1/2" and pretty sure that's on me. The others were pretty consistent. All at 100y outside with a slight tailwind. Was shooting 143 ELD-X which is what I hunt with and ran out. My buddy gave me a box of Fed 140 Trophy for my b-day so I shot a couple groups at 200y. Both were about 1.5" and off target by 4" but I was zero'd and dialed on the Hornady stuff so not concerned there.

    Some jokers left clays scattered and clearly not good shots because there were many unbroken and I lined them up at 200y. Went 5/5 there off a fold a table and bipod.

    I haven't had this rifle outside until today and am completely happy with the setup. And the suppressor allowed shooting with no hearing pro. I didn't the entire time but it will definitely be fine during hunting season.
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  4. #8929
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    Feb 2008
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    Nice rifle and shooting.

    Sweet ride too.
    watch out for snakes

  5. #8930
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    May 2009
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    Cambridge, MA/Jackson, WY
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    Another fun gun debug - I have an AR-10 with a 16" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. It shot fine with the American Eagle 140 grain stuff, but got really picky about gassing with S&B 120gr. Bumping up the spring and buffer weight and adjusting gas helped, but it still short strokes more often than I'd like (read: ever), and it's just weird with a suppressor.

    It turns out that the Faxon AR-10 barrels have gas ports in the Armalite-standard locations, which are different than the DPMS-standard locations, so a normal midlength AR-15 gas tube is about 5/16" short. Way back when, Armalite used AR-15 drop-in handguards, so they set the gas port locations so that a sight tower would sit in the right place with the larger AR-10 barrel nut. I now have the correct length ("Carbine length" in Armalite parlance) gas tube on the way, so hopefully this will fix things.

    This should turn out to be a nice little rifle - 7.5 lbs without optic and sonic to a mile or so at this altitude. I have a Vortex 1-10x24 on top and love it so far. I drew an Elk tag this year, so I may start walking a bunch with this gun.

  6. #8931
    jgb@etree Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by mangle View Post
    Another fun gun debug - I have an AR-10 with a 16" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. It shot fine with the American Eagle 140 grain stuff, but got really picky about gassing with S&B 120gr. Bumping up the spring and buffer weight and adjusting gas helped, but it still short strokes more often than I'd like (read: ever), and it's just weird with a suppressor.

    It turns out that the Faxon AR-10 barrels have gas ports in the Armalite-standard locations, which are different than the DPMS-standard locations, so a normal midlength AR-15 gas tube is about 5/16" short. Way back when, Armalite used AR-15 drop-in handguards, so they set the gas port locations so that a sight tower would sit in the right place with the larger AR-10 barrel nut. I now have the correct length ("Carbine length" in Armalite parlance) gas tube on the way, so hopefully this will fix things.

    This should turn out to be a nice little rifle - 7.5 lbs without optic and sonic to a mile or so at this altitude. I have a Vortex 1-10x24 on top and love it so far. I drew an Elk tag this year, so I may start walking a bunch with this gun.
    Your gas tube was .354" short. Been down that road before.

    Some good general info about the differences between the AR10 and LR308 platforms here:

    https://308ar.com/ar-10-308-ar-compa...ient%20history.

  7. #8932
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Got a Nomad-30 released and haven't had time to shoot it so pretty stoked to get out to the desert today. Really stoked.

    Chrono'd with and without and only a few fps difference...about 10 on average. Shot one group of three for a baseline without the suppressor and then a group of three with to find POI shift. Both groups were sub minute and the suppressed group was 1.5" down and 1.5" right. The suppressed group was a little tighter but the first group without was the first time I shot since pre-covfefe so might have been a touch rusty.

    Then I shot five more groups suppressed to work on zero. The best being 3/8" and the worst 7/8". Had a couple with two touching and one outlier about 1/2" and pretty sure that's on me. The others were pretty consistent. All at 100y outside with a slight tailwind. Was shooting 143 ELD-X which is what I hunt with and ran out. My buddy gave me a box of Fed 140 Trophy for my b-day so I shot a couple groups at 200y. Both were about 1.5" and off target by 4" but I was zero'd and dialed on the Hornady stuff so not concerned there.

    Some jokers left clays scattered and clearly not good shots because there were many unbroken and I lined them up at 200y. Went 5/5 there off a fold a table and bipod.

    I haven't had this rifle outside until today and am completely happy with the setup. And the suppressor allowed shooting with no hearing pro. I didn't the entire time but it will definitely be fine during hunting season.
    Dope. This mean you going to go deer hunting this fall?
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  8. #8933
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    So I'm just an asshole who usually shoots bolt guns at steel and walking food but I just learned an incredible amount in 4 hours with an instructor (retired Force Recon sniper) that I work with from time to time. He now makes a living training spec ops teams and folks like that, so he teaches a very practical, simplistic style of "combat shooting". He stresses simple principles and puts an emphasis on things like shooting from a walking stance, firing immediately after reloading whenever you train (don't stop at the slide release), building muscle memory and how to properly use your eyes in relation to the target and sight. Combine this with grip, recoil management and a very simple take on trigger pull, and anyone could do it.

    Between Yoda teaching me and the ease of that Sig X5, miracles happened...homeboy had me hitting steel at 180 yards with that pistol (took me about eight shots) as a parlor trick at the end of the class, simply utilizing basic mechanics. More importantly, I was able to draw and fire 10 shots in under four seconds in about a 2" group at 15 yards.

    In short, when you do shit right, the gun seems to run itself. This might not be exciting to many of you but to someone with very little formal pistol experience, it was ridiculously fun and surprising.

    If you ever have the opportunity to take a class or lesson from someone like that, I can't stress enough how much difference it'll make. Do it. Well worth the sheckles.
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  9. #8934
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    Oct 2005
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    Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater View Post
    Dope. This mean you going to go deer hunting this fall?
    Most likely. Super bummed though. Friends have an 8 day trip out of the B that I can't make...money making season at work so I have to get out earlier than mid-November. Drew a cow tag I wanted because it's Oct 5-31 and out of Wilson's yurt so that should be fun.

  10. #8935
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Most likely. Super bummed though. Friends have an 8 day trip out of the B that I can't make...money making season at work so I have to get out earlier than mid-November. Drew a cow tag I wanted because it's Oct 5-31 and out of Wilson's yurt so that should be fun.
    Nice. Well it would be fun to go for another deer hunt, maybe early in 36.
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  11. #8936
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    I'm in. Let's sort that out.

  12. #8937
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    My kid is getting a new elk/deer rifle, synthetic, bolt action something (I think he's leaning towards a Weatherby Vanguard). He wants a 6.5 creedmoor so that "it's more fun to practice with." He said his self-imposed shooting limit will be 300 yards. Seems like too light a round to me, but how much energy should I put into talking him out of it? He has an old, wood stocked Ruger in 300 win mag but he won't want to carry that around anymore when he's got a shiny new, lightweight gun.

  13. #8938
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    My kid is getting a new elk/deer rifle, synthetic, bolt action something (I think he's leaning towards a Weatherby Vanguard). He wants a 6.5 creedmoor so that "it's more fun to practice with." He said his self-imposed shooting limit will be 300 yards. Seems like too light a round to me, but how much energy should I put into talking him out of it? He has an old, wood stocked Ruger in 300 win mag but he won't want to carry that around anymore when he's got a shiny new, lightweight gun.
    You're going to open up a can of worms here but IMHO, the 6.5CM is not an ideal elk rifle. Mule deer or whitetail? Definitely. But there are more forgiving rounds for elk. Yes, a 6.5 can definitely kill elk--my coworker killed a bull last year with one. BUT, it's simply less forgiving than something bigger. I'd recommend either a .308 (boring but doesn't get much more easy to shoot and predictable) or if you want to get fancy, a 28 Nosler might be interesting. .308's are pleasant to shoot (get a brake if you want), easy to find ammo and a great all around rifle.
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  14. #8939
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
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    Warm parts of the St. Vrain
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangle View Post
    Another fun gun debug - I have an AR-10 with a 16" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. It shot fine with the American Eagle 140 grain stuff, but got really picky about gassing with S&B 120gr. Bumping up the spring and buffer weight and adjusting gas helped, but it still short strokes more often than I'd like (read: ever), and it's just weird with a suppressor.

    It turns out that the Faxon AR-10 barrels have gas ports in the Armalite-standard locations, which are different than the DPMS-standard locations, so a normal midlength AR-15 gas tube is about 5/16" short. Way back when, Armalite used AR-15 drop-in handguards, so they set the gas port locations so that a sight tower would sit in the right place with the larger AR-10 barrel nut. I now have the correct length ("Carbine length" in Armalite parlance) gas tube on the way, so hopefully this will fix things.

    This should turn out to be a nice little rifle - 7.5 lbs without optic and sonic to a mile or so at this altitude. I have a Vortex 1-10x24 on top and love it so far. I drew an Elk tag this year, so I may start walking a bunch with this gun.
    Maybe I misunderstood here but I think a .22 cal no matter the cartridge has been pretty roundly rejected as a good choice for an elk hunt. Way too high a chance of just wounding the animal. 223 556 is debatable even for white tail.



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  15. #8940
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater View Post
    You're going to open up a can of worms here but IMHO, the 6.5CM is not an ideal elk rifle. Mule deer or whitetail? Definitely. But there are more forgiving rounds for elk. Yes, a 6.5 can definitely kill elk--my coworker killed a bull last year with one. BUT, it's simply less forgiving than something bigger. I'd recommend either a .308 (boring but doesn't get much more easy to shoot and predictable) or if you want to get fancy, a 28 Nosler might be interesting. .308's are pleasant to shoot (get a brake if you want), easy to find ammo and a great all around rifle.
    The 'less forgiving/margin of error' argument was what I told him. I'll work on him. Doesn't help that he only drew deer tags this year and is in that mindset.

  16. #8941
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    My kid is getting a new elk/deer rifle, synthetic, bolt action something (I think he's leaning towards a Weatherby Vanguard). He wants a 6.5 creedmoor so that "it's more fun to practice with." He said his self-imposed shooting limit will be 300 yards. Seems like too light a round to me, but how much energy should I put into talking him out of it? He has an old, wood stocked Ruger in 300 win mag but he won't want to carry that around anymore when he's got a shiny new, lightweight gun.

    Sportsman's has the Meateater edition Vanguard on sale right meow...

    And I'd join Floaty in recommending a different cartridge, only I'd recommend a long action cartridge like a .270 or bigger for wapiti, where you need terminal ballistics more than wind doping.
    If Jr is wedded to a rinkydink .25 caliber bullet in his high-end bolt action Fudd rifle, pretty sure you can get that fineass Vang in .257 Weatherby Magnum or 6.5-300 which, for mall ninjas, will both really blow the fuck out of a watermelon at 7yds, but may be a tad expensive to maintain a tactical base of fire on a 5yd plate run, unless you roll ur own.

  17. #8942
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    Sportsman's has the Meateater edition Vanguard on sale right meow...

    And I'd join Floaty in recommending a different cartridge, only I'd recommend a long action cartridge like a .270 or bigger for wapiti. Pretty sure you can get a fineass Vang in .257 Weatherby Magnum or 6.5-300which, for mall ninjas, will really blow the fuck out of a watermelon at 7yds, but may be a tad expensive to maintain a tactical base of fire on a 5yd plate run unless you reaload.
    I'd recommend the Vanguard First Lite

    High Angle, you'd be stepping down in bullet size from a 6.5--you think the extra kinetic energy from a long action would adequately make up for it? I've never owned a big game rifle smaller than the 6.5CM so I wouldn't know. And Zion, as you probably already know, a 6.5 is simply a necked down .308, for whatever that's worth.
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  18. #8943
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    In related, spooge-worthy news, I have a Weatherby Mark V CarbonMark Pro in 6.5CM coming soon from my buddy over there. Definitely, hands-down, the most expensive rifle I've ever owned and one that I'd never actually buy, so I'm excited.

    I'll report back with my thoughts once it arrives. Curious to see if it changes my mind on the value proposition inherent to rifles like Tikkas, etc.
    "All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."

  19. #8944
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    6.5 commie inches or .264" freedom inches will kill elk just fine.

    The Vanguard is a good rifle.

  20. #8945
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    6.5 commie inches or .264" freedom inches will kill elk just fine.

    The Vanguard is a good rifle.
    The perfectly placed shot from almost any rifle will kill elk. Larger calibers allow not perfect shots to kill better.

    Rev-that Mark V looks like what most custom guys are trying to make rifles into. Rad.

  21. #8946
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    Gut shot is gut shot. A .264" accubond through the lungs is going to tip an elk over just fine. They aren't bullet proof.

    7mm been killing elk forever, somehow 20 thousands of an inch is going to let them walk away?

  22. #8947
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    Gut shot is gut shot. A .264" accubond through the lungs is going to tip an elk over just fine.  They aren't bullet proof.

    7mm's been killing elk forever, somehow 20 thousands of an inch is going to let them walk away?

  23. #8948
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    My kid is getting a new elk/deer rifle, synthetic, bolt action something (I think he's leaning towards a Weatherby Vanguard). He wants a 6.5 creedmoor so that "it's more fun to practice with." He said his self-imposed shooting limit will be 300 yards. Seems like too light a round to me, but how much energy should I put into talking him out of it? He has an old, wood stocked Ruger in 300 win mag but he won't want to carry that around anymore when he's got a shiny new, lightweight gun.
    Get two new rifles. One for deer and one for elk.

  24. #8949
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Reverend Floater View Post
    Between Yoda teaching me and the ease of that Sig X5, miracles happened...
    My x5 was my favorite pistol for a very long time. Its still in my top 5 but I couldn't go to the range without it for years.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  25. #8950
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    Gut shot is gut shot. A .264" accubond through the lungs is going to tip an elk over just fine. They aren't bullet proof.

    7mm been killing elk forever, somehow 20 thousands of an inch is going to let them walk away?
    The exact can of worms Rev spoke of.

    What is wrong with saying a faster and higher energy projectile might kill a little better and give a little more room for error? At 200 yds with the same rounds I always use, my 7 RM is going at 2,688 fps with 2,598 ft/lb energy. My 6.5 CM is going 2,250 carrying 1,600 ft/lb. The 7 is carrying the same energy at 600 yds as the 6.5 at 200.

    So at an average range shot, I'm losing 1,000 lbs of energy in that 20 thousands of an inch. At further out, more energy going down range. That gives some leeway on hitting bones, not tracking as far, etc. Would I hunt elk with my 6.5 CM, sure depending on the circumstances. Do I have a little more confidence in my 7 RM on big animals, yes.

    And I will say the suppressed chassis 6.5 bolt rifle is way more fun to shoot but I'm not selling the 7. And I'll be adding a 300 WM to the safe in a year or two.

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