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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Alcohol is involved tonight.
    Sasha sounds hawt....
    Completely Black except for all four sets of toes and the very tip of her tail. 110 pounds, fast as a motherfucker and she could jump over your head. In the olden days she hardly ever ate dogfood because she had something hidden in the woods that she was eating. Nowadays she eats dogfood most days, but not always.

    I've said for years that she's the only dog i ever knew that could be dropped off in the middle of AK and survive. She'd want to get back to people but she could hunt and fight her way back unless she ran into a pack of wolves because then it would be, like, game over.

  2. #77
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Star View Post
    however, this rhetoric regarding "man's constant push into every creature's turf" is a bunch of crap. humans are programmed as a species to consciously "push into every creature's turf?" nope, sorry.
    Every organism is programmed to reproduce into as many as possible and amass as much territory as possible. Manifest destiny is evolutionary success.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Star View Post
    I agree with you, mostly, in that I would like to see a healthy wolf population in the West.

    however, this rhetoric regarding "man's constant push into every creature's turf" is a bunch of crap. humans are programmed as a species to consciously "push into every creature's turf?" nope, sorry. I don't know how to say it any better than that hippie arguments like that take credit away from real, substantive arguments.

    People in the west want to eliminate wolves because they eat livestock. it's that simple.
    Ok, I'll throw two cents in, since I can't seem to get rid of the chills enough to sleep. Where's Nyquil when you need it?

    Anyway, the "rhetoric" being mentioned is a holdover of Manifest Destiny, which, as anyone who passed high school history knows, is the belief that God ordained Westward Expansion. This philosophy of land management and growth may not still be called by the name, but it has been so ingrained in the quote unquote rural west that it is hard to escape. If you don't believe that people don't push further and further into animals turf, I suggest taking a drive by Ennis, MT, or Jackson, WY or Cody, WY, or any other smaller town in Montana and Wyoming. I'll only speak for those two states, since they are where I have lived all of my life. If you drive down by the river in Cody, you will see a big sign warning of the possibility of black bear encounters. If your eyes are peeled, in the right place at the right time, you will see a sow and two cubs while fishing, or rafting. Animal's ranges will change, from a variety of factors, but the long and short of it is simply this: they were here first! WE pushed onto THEIR areas, all the while showing very little respect for the land, or the creatures, or the people who lived here first.


    As for people in the west want to eliminate wolves because of livestock predations, etc. etc.

    This is another wonderful generalization, one that gets made by too many people. I know that you aren't trying to insinuate that all people in the west are trying to destroy the wolves, but try not being ripped apart by others when you claim that you are an ecologist or environmentalist from Wyoming. You kind of get laughed at a bit, because of the stereotypes, especially lately.

    I honestly don't think that those who want to kill wolves necessarily want to do it simply because of predation. Some, as we learned with wolf 253, and his two pack mates, one who was pregnant, were shot on the borders of a feed ground for elk, simply picked off to be picked off. Maybe these guys wanted bragging rights, maybe they had too many cartridges, who knows. But those three wolves have never had anything to show that they had ever hit livestock.
    I think the bigger thing that makes some people want the wolves eliminated is fear. Think back to the nursery rhymes, with the big bad wolf, and how our American folklore has demonized the wolf. They are things to be afraid of. I can't tell you how many rumors get started around here along the lines of attacks and near misses. "Oh so-and-so's kid got chased around by a pack of wolves yesterday up at the Old Mill." Well, those are all rumors, and quite frankly are bullshit, but people still eat them up, and use it to try to prove that wolves are dangerous. I can't remember if the statistic still stands, but for a long time there was never a wolf attack on a human. I'm too lazy right now to look it up.
    Predations do happen, though, and I won't defend people who wind up shooting a wolf that they see eating through a cow, or a horse, or what have you. And yes, wolves go after elk, but they aren't destroying the population, as so many armchair good-ol-boy "ecologists" have so eloquently said. I also am not a fan of the way any of this has gone. Anybody who had half a clue about behavior knew that the whole project was going to turn into this cluster, but it was kind of pushed aside. Well, there was no plan at the start, and there sure as hell isn't a plan that is working now. I think that Montana has the best plan, and Wyoming's plan makes me want to puke, but that is just my $0.02.

    [/rant]
    backcountry makes my wee wee tingle...
    "What was once a mighty river. Now a ghost." Edward Abbey
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    It's not wyoming...it's Jackson.
    Different rules apply.
    My Adventures

    "Feeling good is good enough."

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Every organism is programmed to reproduce into as many as possible
    True

    and amass as much territory as possible.
    not true

    Manifest destiny is evolutionary success.
    Huh?

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Didn't read entire thread but thought i'd interject story. Where wife rides, foothills near Calgary, wolves moved in a couple of years ago. All through out hills there is ranching. No loses of cattle so far. Actually the rancher saw a wolf using cattle to catch deer. Deer feeding on hay left for cows with cows. Wolf sneaks up on deer using cows as cover, dumb cows don't move, wolf gets deer.
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by skibuminwyo View Post
    Ok, I'll throw two cents in, since I can't seem to get rid of the chills enough to sleep. Where's Nyquil when you need it?

    Anyway, the "rhetoric" being mentioned is a holdover of Manifest Destiny, which, as anyone who passed high school history knows, is the belief that God ordained Westward Expansion. This philosophy of land management and growth may not still be called by the name, but it has been so ingrained in the quote unquote rural west that it is hard to escape. If you don't believe that people don't push further and further into animals turf, I suggest taking a drive by Ennis, MT, or Jackson, WY or Cody, WY, or any other smaller town in Montana and Wyoming. I'll only speak for those two states, since they are where I have lived all of my life. If you drive down by the river in Cody, you will see a big sign warning of the possibility of black bear encounters. If your eyes are peeled, in the right place at the right time, you will see a sow and two cubs while fishing, or rafting. Animal's ranges will change, from a variety of factors, but the long and short of it is simply this: they were here first! WE pushed onto THEIR areas, all the while showing very little respect for the land, or the creatures, or the people who lived here first.


    As for people in the west want to eliminate wolves because of livestock predations, etc. etc.

    This is another wonderful generalization, one that gets made by too many people. I know that you aren't trying to insinuate that all people in the west are trying to destroy the wolves, but try not being ripped apart by others when you claim that you are an ecologist or environmentalist from Wyoming. You kind of get laughed at a bit, because of the stereotypes, especially lately.

    I honestly don't think that those who want to kill wolves necessarily want to do it simply because of predation. Some, as we learned with wolf 253, and his two pack mates, one who was pregnant, were shot on the borders of a feed ground for elk, simply picked off to be picked off. Maybe these guys wanted bragging rights, maybe they had too many cartridges, who knows. But those three wolves have never had anything to show that they had ever hit livestock.
    I think the bigger thing that makes some people want the wolves eliminated is fear. Think back to the nursery rhymes, with the big bad wolf, and how our American folklore has demonized the wolf. They are things to be afraid of. I can't tell you how many rumors get started around here along the lines of attacks and near misses. "Oh so-and-so's kid got chased around by a pack of wolves yesterday up at the Old Mill." Well, those are all rumors, and quite frankly are bullshit, but people still eat them up, and use it to try to prove that wolves are dangerous. I can't remember if the statistic still stands, but for a long time there was never a wolf attack on a human. I'm too lazy right now to look it up.
    Predations do happen, though, and I won't defend people who wind up shooting a wolf that they see eating through a cow, or a horse, or what have you. And yes, wolves go after elk, but they aren't destroying the population, as so many armchair good-ol-boy "ecologists" have so eloquently said. I also am not a fan of the way any of this has gone. Anybody who had half a clue about behavior knew that the whole project was going to turn into this cluster, but it was kind of pushed aside. Well, there was no plan at the start, and there sure as hell isn't a plan that is working now. I think that Montana has the best plan, and Wyoming's plan makes me want to puke, but that is just my $0.02.

    [/rant]
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

  7. #82
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    Welfare Ranchers

    Public Lands Grazing = Welfare Ranching
    Intermountain West Rancher's need to change the way they do business on our shared public lands... as we all work towards a reasource balanced future.
    "Do you have any idea what the street value of this mountain is" -Charles DeMar
    Never argue with an idiot..They always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I think you'd have an easier time understanding people if you remembered that 80% of them are fucking morons.


    I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and hope that the number of morons isn't that high. But, you are right.
    backcountry makes my wee wee tingle...
    "What was once a mighty river. Now a ghost." Edward Abbey
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    It's not wyoming...it's Jackson.
    Different rules apply.
    My Adventures

    "Feeling good is good enough."

  9. #84
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    sadly, this is all for naught because the oil&natural gas boom will do a dandy job of screwing up areas like the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem in a manner orders of magnitude worse than what cows can muster.

  10. #85
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    Someone had mentioned they didn't remember any authentic or validated cases of wolves attacking humans. Up until about two months ago, that held true for North America. In Alaska about a month or two ago there was a wolf attack on a person who was with a dog walking. Any mags up in the valley know about that or remember that?

    But, here is something that may be of interest.

    Almost all of the "big bad wolf" lore originated in either eastern Europe or Russia (Peter and the Wolf etc.) And there are some very interesting reasons for this.

    Remember that with rare excpetion, North America has not been a bloddy batte or war infested place. Sure, when the whites showed up they murdered raped and pillaged the aboriginals. But this was VERY VERY small in comarison to Russian history or European history where they have a war du jour. Hell, the current Western European generation is the first generation in almost the entire history of Europe to NOT have had to live with war.

    Okay, still with me here? The theory goes like this. In eastern Europe and Russia there are MANY well documented cases of wolves atttacking human beings. Predation from wolves on humans, while rare, still takes place in Russia (I worked in the Kamchdal and Kamchatka regions for spell and was a bit cautious over there when it came to wolves). They specualte this is because the wolves, throughout the years and generations, would scavenge human bodies from the battlegrounds and war fields and began associating humans as a food source. And that is one theory why they are aggresive to humans over there versus here in North America where they never had the luxury of battel field dead bodies to munhc on.

    It makes sens. I haven't done more than a perfunctory series of research on this theory, but from what I have found, it does hold water.

    So, in North America, all those big bad wolves tales are BULLSHIT. But Russia, the Carpathian Mountains of Romania etc...they have wolves that are and can be agggresive towards humans.
    "If it had taken any effort I wouldn't have done it at all. I mean it. I wouldn't have done anything" - B. Kelso

  11. #86
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    ^^^^^ something tells me you didn't write that whole missive on your phone.

    But thanks for the heads up, next time i'm in Romania, i'll keep a wary lookout!
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  12. #87
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    ^^^nope, on the laptop in a cafe. Had a good exploration day on the trails around here and thought I'd get a little work and interneting done. No phone.
    "If it had taken any effort I wouldn't have done it at all. I mean it. I wouldn't have done anything" - B. Kelso

  13. #88
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    the edge of wuss cliff
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    Amongst men words went
    Of the full Moone's woe

    When a dirge did rise to Her skylit eye
    From the lone winter's colde
    They fear'd that the wolf was nigh
    Awakened in it's Majestie of olde

    Nights did pass when men claim'd they saw
    In Her light that he splits
    with the shadow he casts
    The shadow of a force unknown
    Holwling at it's God in splendoure infernall

  14. #89
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    GAME OFF!

    Judge restores protection for N. Rockies wolves

    By MATTHEW BROWN 2 hours ago

    BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) A federal judge in Montana has ordered that gray wolves in the northern Rockies be returned to the endangered species list.

    The preliminary injunction granted by U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy is expected to derail plans by Montana, Wyoming and Idaho to allow public hunts for the predator.

    Wolf populations in the three states were removed from the endangered list in March following a decade-long restoration effort. Environmentalists sued to overturn the decision.

    The region has an estimated 2,000 wolves. The population has been soaring and increasingly preying on livestock. But environmentalists say the number of wolves would quickly plummet with the hunts the states have planned.
    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...AfKxwD920IK480
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  15. #90
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    Man, there go my plans for dinner on Thanksgiving.
    Bastards.
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Man, there go my plans for dinner on Thanksgiving.
    Bastards.
    Turwolfen?

  17. #92
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    well, at least it won't be 'wolf-duckin'....
    StokePimpin' ain't easy

  18. #93
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    the sad lot of welfare ranchers just can't get a break, can they?

  19. #94
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    Bump for Sarah Palin, McCain's choice of VP, AK's most famous wolf killer and supporter of aerial hunting of wolves.

    I'm all in support of gun rights and tapping our reserves, but this crosses the line in my book. This isn't real hunting! This type of hunt does not support hunting for sustenance, it's merely for trophy.

    Tons of articles out there- I'm too pissed off to list. Why did McCain have to pick her?? Fack!!

  20. #95
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    To make sure everybody understands he really is a loose cannon.

    Got fifty bucks?
    Last edited by David Witherspoon; 08-29-2008 at 11:43 AM.

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