Why women's gear sucks

**mntlion** · 03-25-2008, 01:15 PM

ARGHHH tooo many ladies have been in my store and HAVE to have ladies boots. This is my rant.

respond if you want to. (or post a link on skidiva and let me know too)

Why women's gear sucks

The whole idea of woman's gear is a crock. Women don't need different gear, specially made for them. All people do. Yes ladies move differently, and are shaped differently then guys, but all women are not the same (nor are all men, all skis, all beers, or all cars) Every person needs gear that works tor them.

If a person skis fast, aggressively,and in powder then they need a long, fat, stiff ski, Great, so go get one. Does that person ski better with the bindings mounted forward? Fine, then get your ski tech to mount the skis that way. Is that ski then a "ladies" ski as it is mounted forward of the "normal" mounting point? Nope, it is just a long, fat ski that is mounted ahead of the center. The ski doesn't know, or care, if you are a guy or a gal. A few companies are catching on to this and making the same ski in different flexes. (PM gear and the Bro model) They don't have a ladies or a mens flex, just a soft and a stiff, (and extra soft and extra stiff if you ask
nice) Anyone can ski them, you can get the skis mounted forwards or back of center, and put what every type or brand of binding you want on them. The skis just don't care.

A beginner skier, with a narrow foot, that is non aggressive will need a soft, narrow boot. That particular boot might marketed as a "ladies" boot, might be a "Jr. boot" or might be called a beginner boot but, why can't an intermediate adult man use that boot if it fits him? Why not label that boot as a "soft and narrow" boot ? People with large calf's need boots that fit lower and larger on the leg, people with a limited range of motion in the ankle need a boot that is stiffer, people that are lighter and less aggressive need a softer boot. So buy a boot that is the right size for you, is the right
flex, and the right shape too, and then get you local boot fitter to help make the boot right for you.

If you have small hands then you need a pole and glove that are smaller too. So buy a ski pole that has a smaller grip, and get a XS glove. Heck save some money and buy a kids glove. If you want pink ski pole with sparkles then go get one. It doesn't mater if you are a guy or a gal. Get the gear that you like.

Look at the top skiers in the world. No race boots or skis are marked ladies or mens. Some are stiffer, some are softer, some are better for SL and some are better for SG (and the equipment is all different too).

Take the best option and then make it better for you. I know a lot of men that will ski better in a softer boot and ladies that should be on longer skis. YOU need to find equipment that works for YOU, not just gear that has a "W" or a "M" on it. I think that ladies stamp mark on equipment is a great starting point for some ladies, but just that, a starting point, for some. But really, why limit your search for the perfect boots or skis by 50% right off the start. People are all shaped differently , and have different needs. Some are tall , some have narrow feet, some like stiffer skis, some have wide hips, some ski SL gates all the time (and we still don't know why?) and some like lime green pok-o-dots on the skis top sheets.. So ignore all the
marketing, and find some ski gear that work for you, not for the person in the lift line behind you, not for your best friend, not for your partner, but great gear, for you.

Sure that sounds like a bit more work, and time, then just buying the lavender boots, or the flowered skis. But with the help of a shop with professional, knowledgeable staff, and lots of good product, and maybe some money spent on demos, you can find the one that works best for you. Don't limit your self to what some sexist corporate Euro decided that you can or can't use, just because of your sex.

**squirrelmurphy** · 03-25-2008, 01:26 PM

preach it, Reverend

**Dromond** · 03-25-2008, 01:26 PM

But, but, women's specific is so easy to market!

My gf feels the same way and hates all of the flowery glittery crap. It's too bad, because some of it works for her and some of it doesn't. It took her a while to try a pair of women's specific skis again (the unisex models weren't short enough) after getting handed a pair of floppy-as-limp-overcooked-noodles-cheetah-print women's skis on a demo day and hating them.

P.S. This is also a problem in the bike world. I know of one company that makes all of the even sizes men's and all of the odd sizes women's, painting them pink. Other than that the frames are identical.

**XXX-er** · 03-25-2008, 01:34 PM

well the womens ski IS available in shorter lengths for a smaller person but why does it have to have flowers ...marketing bulshit I agree

I got small feet (24) so I have to get women boots ,I had to get womens salomon wave 8.0s which only go down to 25 in mens

my xenas are leisure suit blue with a femme sticker on the side ... but inside the tounge it sez endorphin

over in euroland on TP.com the endorphin goes down to 23.5 while in N.A. it only goes to 25 and you buy xena's if you got dainty feet and apparently there are more models in euroland we don't see here

**coreshot-tourettes** · 03-25-2008, 02:23 PM

Marketing something as "women's specific" is an instant +50% to your net profit from that line, that's why so many companies do it.

**XXX-er** · 03-25-2008, 02:38 PM

ya but don't you alienate size challenged people who don't want stuff with flowers ?

you seen the new G3 womens tele products ?they are all green BUT at least there are other options

**mwthomsen** · 03-25-2008, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes

Marketing something as "women's specific" is an instant +50% to your net profit from that line, that's why so many companies do it.

I would be interested in what type of net profit Backcountry.com makes on women's specific gear. Noticing how much women's stuff they sell on sac I bet the the overall profit margin on women's gear is pretty low.

**Wes Mantooth** · 03-25-2008, 03:20 PM

Yeah man it's purely marketing. Perfect example: Dynastar Exclusive Legend ski. Exactly the same as the 4800 yet different colors and a pad for putting the skis on shoulders. They slap baby blue on products and call them womens and get more customers that way. I agree it's retarded but whatever floats peoples boats

**Jim J** · 03-25-2008, 03:21 PM

Women and men are different in a lot of ways, if you haven't noticed.

My wife does not love skiing as much as I do. She isn't as good a skier either. If having a matchy matchy outfit and flowery skis makes her feel good about herself and makes her have a better time on the mountain, who are you or I to tell her that it's wrong.

There is a reason that you and I are not in charge of marketing for a ski company. Most of the $$ spent on skiing is not by the TGR crowd. For every bro/brah there are 100 gapers.

**Optimus Prime** · 03-25-2008, 04:45 PM

I really, really, really hope this theory applies to underwear, or I'm fucked.

**Wes Mantooth** · 03-25-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jim J

Most of the $$ spent on skiing is not by the TGR crowd. For every bro/brah there are 100 gapers.

It's so true. Ski shops would all be bankrupt without the gapers because they make up most of the skiing population and they buy overpriced things

**Steven S. Dallas** · 03-25-2008, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

ya but don't you alienate size challenged people who don't want stuff with flowers ?

you seen the new G3 womens tele products ?they are all green BUT at least there are other options

Gee, you're in a mood. What's wrong, someone after your Lucky Charms?

**Elle Be** · 03-25-2008, 06:13 PM

In my business, where armor has to go where it needs to be, women and men's gear is different, but only in the placement of the padding. Meaning, ribs are smaller, placement is higher. Everything else is the same. Except we offer pink, for women/girls.

In my own set up, I've always ridden a women specific board. Men's boards are always too wide for me and my small feet. I need a small waist. And I like it to pop. Men's boards don't always pop (I ride a Palmer Liberty this year. Last year was an Arbor Push. But you guys are talking skis and boots, I snowboard). And men's boots swim on my tiny ankles and heels, so I buy women boots (Salomon).

**XXX-er** · 03-25-2008, 06:14 PM

well green isnt ever gona be the new black

**Elle Be** · 03-25-2008, 06:20 PM

black is the new black

**XXX-er** · 03-25-2008, 06:37 PM

You sure?

I thot orange was the new black ... which was replaced by brown ?

shit,I'm out of style

**Gordyman** · 03-25-2008, 06:48 PM

Fuck yeah Mntlion! Women specific design? I bought my wife a pair of Volkl Queen Attivas, and you know what? It's the same ski as the T-rock, just different topsheet.

Anyone ski a Mutix ski? Do those removable different sized arm modules do anything besides dazzle the ignorant? What about the "Prolink" arms on the X-screams? What happened when the epoxy broke down and one of those arms got knocked off? Nothing because those arms did nothing.

So much bullshit and gimmickry in ski manufacturing. Too many skis designed to sell more than to ski. Remember the Volant solid steel topsheet? Fucking bomber and beautiful. But they couldn't leave it alone, so they pulled the steel back from the sidewalls and put red or yellow fiberglass strips in its place. Guess what? Strips de-laminate all over the place! Sure looked cool and sold like hotcakes, but once those fuckers start peeling that ski is doomed.

I tend to compare things from one genre to similar things in another. So what if you saw a mountain bike with "Prolink" module on the toptube of the frame, and the brochure said that the module dampened vibrations while at the same time eliminating excessive frame flex? The prolink module on the toptube of the mountain bike would ensure smooth riding and flawless handling on the roghest terrain. Would you buy that load of horseshit? Why do people buy it in skis?

I had to get that off my chest.

**XXX-er** · 03-25-2008, 07:01 PM

[QUOTE=Gordyman;1765774]Fuck yeah Mntlion! Women specific design? I bought my wife a pair of Volkl Queen Attivas, and you know what? It's the same ski as the T-rock, just different topsheet.

QUOTE]

ok but arent they smaller ?maybe they come in several smaller sizes favoring smaller people ?

I got tele-babe some 157 G3 sirens and they also make a 166 which is pretty fucking small

AND when I look at that top sheet i jsut wana jump in the water

**bklyn** · 03-25-2008, 07:34 PM

I blame it all on that evil woman initials (JT) who prescribes heel lifts, forward mounting, and short skis for all women. IMO, a heel lift and forward mount will not increase your leverage on the ski, nor magically cure back seat skiing. I think it does the opposite, throwing you further backward and out of balance with an effectively longer tail waiting to tear an ACL.

JT's "solutions" are so entrenched in the "womens specific" industry now and it's so profitable that this trend will continue no matter what you say in the shop to refute it.

**wandering, not lost** · 03-25-2008, 07:54 PM

Gear yes, but clothing (gloves too at this point) no. Unless they start marketing a unisex pant for people with a booty, I'll never buy unisex again. I do love it when I can save $10 by buying a kids-size hoody though.

**H-wood** · 03-25-2008, 08:00 PM

Very good points by Bklyn. At some point you're in a boot w/ tons of ramp (and maybe a heel shim), binding w/ tons of ramp, mounted forward on the ski. That might work for a small number of people, but skiers who start from this point are fucked (and, as you point out, there's definitely extra strain on the knees).

Shorter, softer skis and boots make sense for smaller people, and I can see how some women (and men) need a forward mount or extra ramp to get centered, but it would be nice if everyone started w/ a less jacked-up set-up and then could adjust things incrementally.

**cito** · 03-25-2008, 11:55 PM

It aint a chick problem, it's a sucky problem. It's just that most chicks aren't embarrased/cognicent of the rediculousness swirling around and proceed to annoy without a thought, unlike the big chested silverback gAPE who doesn't know dick

**XXX-er** · 03-26-2008, 12:03 PM

I got conform'ables from this guy in cow-town and he has alot of stuff on fit/ramp angle he sez too much ramp is bad for most people

http://www.lous.ca/techarticles.htm

I got fucked over with ladies boots ,I had to get women's salomon wave 8.0's ,too much ramp angle,my ski tech drinking/buddy said "I could see you had too much ramp cuz yer ass was sticking out"

I will never buy another boot without adjustable forward lean/cuff cant/thermofit and I would appear to be stuck with womens boots cuz I take a 24 & mens boots don't seem to go any smaller than 25

**mntlion** · 03-26-2008, 12:23 PM

XXX-er. I have lange fluids 120, salomon impact 10, full tilt all avail in 24 (smaller then 290mm) right now, in banff, on sale.

If you want the ladies ones I have the exclusive, idol 8 also in 24

**XXX-er** · 03-26-2008, 12:37 PM

I tried some lange (they were junior race boots !) back when I was looking at the salomons and they didnt feel good ...figured I didnt have a lange foot ,thanx anyhow .

Must be my oriental background ,centuries of foot binding eh?

http://images.google.com/images?q=ch...z=1I7SUNA&um=1

HAPPY with the Xena's actualy ,they just need a little tweaking but what boot doesnt?

thanx anyhow

ps:fuck womens gear