Inbounds avy at KW today?!

[Ottime]

for the people talking about carrying a beacon, are ya'll doing it to keep your family from worrying for days as probelines continue to look for your body, i.e. the beacon is serving as a body recovery device? i often ski with a beacon on pow or weather days, but literally consider it for body recovery purposes. if i'm really keeping my avi eyes open when resort skiing, i'm making different terrain choices to theoretically save my ass. IMO, thinking that carrying a beacon is going to save your life is just foolin' yourself.

Yes - it works as a body recovering device. And if your buddies have their beacons - they can search for you just like in the BC. And if they don't - they can call Patrol on a radio or the cell. It is not a guarantee of survival - but sure beat nothing.

Sure - the best strategy is to make good decisions - but if it were completely uncontrolled (like the BC) it would be a day to stay home.

[kerpal]

Oh crap... I hope everyone is ok...

[snoboy]

If you ain't beeping, you're most likely dead. If you are beeping, you have half a chance, your choice...

[hutash]

Yes. The blinking light adds steeze.

I always just waited until I got to the bar, don't want to waste batteries. The chicks love it.

Glad to hear no one was involved, let's hope it stays that way.

[phUnk]

IMO, thinking that carrying a beacon is going to save your life is just foolin' yourself.

Are you really arguing that wearing a beacon won't increase your chances of survival in an in-bounds avie, where patrollers and/or your buddies are going to be minutes away at most?

Really?

[idiot]

kirkwood clearly isn't steep enough to avi

that palisades area should be a permanent closure

just sets in how this can happen to any one at any time

[Pat]

If you ain't beeping, you're most likely dead. If you are beeping, you have half a chance, your choice...

Assuming we're still talking about resort skiing here, I disagree. Most resorts use Recco. I think the Recco system will detect cell phones.

[Core Shot]

Assuming we're still talking about resort skiing here, I disagree. Most resorts use Recco. I think the Recco system will detect cell phones.

have you seen a recco detector?

do you really want to wait 20 minutes underneath the snow while they go to fetch it from the patrol shed?

I prefer an avy beacon so the first responders on site can quickly switch to recieve and have a chance to find me before I suffocate.

[edit - not to mention that recco tags are in boots and jackets and other debris that may not be where I am at.
Plus, if I have a pieps and 2 other tourists are also buried with recco, guess who will be found first?]

[KillingCokes]

Agreed.

Just saw you're sig, MMMMMM BACON AND COKE

I'm gonna make that right now

[SL]

have you seen a recco detector?

do you really want to wait 20 minutes underneath the snow while they go to fetch it from the patrol shed?

I prefer an avy beacon so the first responders on site can quickly switch to recieve and have a chance to find me before I suffocate.

[edit - not to mention that recco tags are in boots and jackets and other debris that may not be where I am at.
Plus, if I have a pieps and 2 other tourists are also buried with recco, guess who will be found first?]

Great point, that's why I tear all the Reccos out of my clothes. Really, who wants to wait 20 minutes to be found?

[Dhelihiker]

kirkwood clearly isn't steep enough to avi

that palisades area should be a permanent closure

[Hugh Conway]

Assuming we're still talking about resort skiing here, I disagree. Most resorts use Recco. I think the Recco system will detect cell phones.

Every resort with avy terrain the patrol wears beacons. Standard protocol for any slide is to first search with beacons. Recco.... well, Recco won't be there quite so quickly.

[supermodel159]

Just heard that a slide occured at Kirkwood today in the Palisades. Around 3:15 avalanche sirens blaring, chair 6 shut down, and rumors of possibly 3 people buried (according to a liftie). I hope this isn't true!!

edit: maggots that I know were up there today skimoore, dblatto, davep, and skiergirl are accounted for and safe.

I left Kwood today at 2 (I couldnt call in sick again on Tuesday). I called Skimoore around 5 and he told me about the slide and that 3 people were caught. After the slide they shut down the wall and 6.

The snow was DEEP today. I hope the 3 skiers made it out alright.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

At approximately 2:20pm, while traversing into Palisades Bowl via the “low track”, I came around a tree and skied directly into the stauchwall of what appeared to be an R4, D2/3 slide. A quick scan of the event area revealed shallowly buried rocks which acted as trigger points and air pockets where heavy windloading had occurred along a 80 ft x 15 ft band of rocks, which acted as the left flank of the slab.

This had been my fifth or sixth lap on this slope and snow safety/ avy control work had been completed earlier in the day. I had dug a few hand (hasty) pits here throughout the day and also had not noted any cracking or whoomping of the snowpack in this area.

Having been making quick laps and knowing there were a few other skiers in the immediate area, my best estimate was that this slide occurred somewhere between 20 seconds and 2 minutes prior to my arrival on the scene. Beginning at the stauchwall and working in a zig zag fashion, I initiated a beacon search of the deposition which returned no signals. I spot probed in front of 20 or so trees along the way, working pretty thoroughly but quickly to the bottom of the deposition. The avalanche path was pretty poorly defined, and I don’t know this to be an area that slides frequently. I suspect the unusual SSW windloading that occurred previous to this event went unnoticed as a red flag. Approximately 30 seconds after initiating my search, another party of three (all equipped with avy gear) assisted in the beacon search. They radioed for patrol at 2:28 and a handful of patrollers and a few employees arrived within two or three minutes.

As I got to the bottom of the deposition I realized the slide was much bigger than I originally estimated from standing at the top. The approximate width of the deposition was 50m and probably close to 125m in length. Knowing a probe line would have to be assembled, I started working my way (sidestepping) up the left edge of the deposition back to the top knowing that probing downhill would be much more efficient than trying to work back up in waist deep snow. By the time I got back to the top of the deposition, approximately 15 people were on scene and patrol had arrived with extra bags of shovels and probes. We proceeded to work a probe line down from the top and as more skiers slowly came, there was a patrolman organizing a probe line working from the bottom up as well. In 30 or so minutes, approximately 15 Kirkwood patrollers and employees and 25 volunteers were coarse probing the deposition working towards each other. Avalanche dog handlers (3, I think) arrived approximately 20-25 minutes thereafter with the RECCO bag and also found no signs of victims.

After probing the entire slide area no gear or victims were found, and the search was called off at 5:35 pm.


Wear your beacons and carry your avy gear ALL THE TIME folks. Be safe and ski with a buddy. I can't tell you how scary it was thinking the whole time that I might actually strike a victim under that pile. Luckily, this just turned out to be good old fashioned real-life practice.

[RootSkier]

Thanks for the update...and being knowledgeable enough to start the search right away.

[Sierra Cement]

Thanks for the report BSS. Sounds like you did a great job. Any more beta on the start zone and bed surface?

[Arty50]

I know a few of the mags that ski there wear beacons on storm/deep days. I'm one of them. 3-4 years ago I had just exited One Man when the whole apron under it ripped out and took me for a nice ride down the Saddle. After talking to several people over the years, I discovered that I'm not the 1st person to ride an inbounds slide there and obviously I'm not the last. Ever since then, I've worn a beacon inbounds when there's a chance for avy activity.

Kirkwood isn't the only place where this happens either. Mammoth (Climax and Scotty's), Alpine (can't remember runs), and Squaw (Headwall) have all had it happen recently too.

That said, there's an important question to ask. Is a beacon enough? Yes, it will help immensely. But wouldn't having a shovel and probe speed things up even more. Remember, it's all about time. So far I've chosen comfort (no pack) over being more prepared. Maybe it's time to rethink that...

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

I feel pretty safe saying YES - if somebody was buried and beeping, they would have been yanked alive within 10 minutes. Tops.

2 minutes (maybe) until beacon search was initiated

vs.

15-20 minutes until half assed probe line even started to assemble
25-30 minutes until dogs and recco gear was on scene
45-50 minutes until probe lines were running and actually making progress
3 hours until probing was completed

[Lonnie]

I always just waited until I got to the bar, don't want to waste batteries. The chicks love it.

Funny. I had mine on for the drive down the canyon the other night, the road got jacked up so I stoped at the bar. I didn't take my coat off the whole time 'cause I didn't want anyone to see it and to think I was a poser....

FWIW, batteries are cheap. Funerals are expensive.

[Pat]

"25-30 minutes until dogs and recco gear was on scene"

Not sure where you ski, but that's FAR from the case where I go. The Recco might be a few minutes later than beacons. Seriously. It can get anywhere in five minutes.

[abertsch]

Thanks for the info BSS. I was skiing kirkwood today as well. I was beeping and carrying my probe. Upon leaving the house this morning I had the brain fade thought that I couldn't possibly need a shovel in bounds. I will not make THAT mistake again.

I heard the siren, but didn't know whether it represented an avalanche or not. Asked about the fuss down at the base and offered to help, but they said they had it under control.

I was skiing with two friends who thought I was a little silly for wearing a beacon in bounds today. They probably do not think I am quite so silly now. Be safe out there.

-Adam

[Lonnie]

That said, there's an important question to ask. Is a beacon enough? Yes, it will help immensely. But wouldn't having a shovel and probe speed things up even more. Remember, it's all about time. So far I've chosen comfort (no pack) over being more prepared. Maybe it's time to rethink that...

I've thought about that too. Here's my take. Where I do most of my skiing (Alta), I know that all of the patrollers, many of the ski schoolers, and lots of general public folks have beacons on. Hell just turn your beacon to receive in the lift line or restaurant and the thing goes haywire. I figure in a slide with a few exceptions where hiking is essential, there is almost nowhere that the patrol can't be with in about 5 mins give or take a few. So the way I have it figured, folks will be doing a beacon search before the patrol arrives with probes and shovels. My guess is that if someone is beeping that they'll be pinpointed before patrol arrives on scene.

[kidwoo]

I didn't take my coat off the whole time 'cause I didn't want anyone to see it and to think I was a poser....

Oh thank gawd!!


That would have been totally embarrassing!

[Chainsaw_Willie]

Sobering. I've been pretty cavalier in my approach to skiing the Crystal Mt. BC. "Hey, it's patrolled and bombed, right?" Maybe I should rethink that.

What was it, a month ago when there was a big crew skiing up there? Arty, Tyrone, & friends up visiting? That day Xtal patrol closed the BC gates late in the afternoon after a slide occurred in (I think) Silver Basin. I also noticed a slide had occurred on the NE flank of Silver King that was visible from the regular inbounds area. I had skied right through that slide area the day before...

...snip... really though, this isn't the kinda of info you wanna post about on the internet.

Uhh, okay, call me clueless - why not?

[Hugh Conway]

"25-30 minutes until dogs and recco gear was on scene"

Not sure where you ski, but that's FAR from the case where I go. The Recco might be a few minutes later than beacons. Seriously. It can get anywhere in five minutes.

where do you ski? buck hill?

edit: Nicely done BSS