Shops REQUIRED to mount 4 snow tires.... Not 2?

**Storm11** · 01-19-2008, 04:03 PM

WTF? So I just got my girlfriends Accord fixed (after 2 months of dormancy) and went to Big O to put snowtires on it. The shop owner turned me away after learning that I only had 2 to put on. He claims there's some new law that states they can only put a full set of snowtires on a car...not 2, and claims that I'll have a hell of a hard time finding a shop that will do it. Fucking bullshit marketing ploy if I've ever seen one.
Unfortunately they're the only shop open on Saturdays, so I don't know if that's really true or not.

I've been driving that car with only 2 snowtires on the front for 6 years now and haven't gone off the road EVER. Hell, that thing handles better on icy roads than my Tacoma in 4X4 with the hubs locked. Anybody else have to deal with this bullshit recently or is this guy completely full of shit?

**adampecush** · 01-19-2008, 04:06 PM

no, fuck that. That is like the tire shops that try to force you to buy v-rated snow tires for a car with v-rated all seasons. Find another place to spend your money.

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 04:09 PM

You are essentially a fucking retard if you put 2 snows on the front of a FWD car.

I'm not sure that they've made being a retard illegal yet, but whatever.

**Storm11** · 01-19-2008, 04:18 PM

And how do you figure that dumbass? I'll bet you're one of those fucking morons who swear by putting them on the back (ie, all you dumbfuck yellow platers I see in the ditch)

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 04:39 PM

I have white and blue plates, thanks. I'm not from around here.

And no, I have snows on all four. The last time I had 2 snows on the front of a FWD car it was a lot of fun to fuck around with, not confidence inspiring to actually drive with.

**Storm11** · 01-19-2008, 04:43 PM

Perhaps you should learn how to effectively drive in the snow then. Having good AW tires on the back vs. snow tires should make NO difference if you actually know how to drive.

**Theodore** · 01-19-2008, 04:43 PM

Ummmm, tell them you have two other at home?

**Name Redacted** · 01-19-2008, 04:50 PM

Big O sucks a lot of balls. Wait till monday and go to another shop. Big O is always trying to pull some sort of trick to get people to spend more money, the one in summit said I needed new brake pads and said they were metal on metal so I took it home and changed the brake pads. Sure enough, they were only 1/2 used up. I have other stories about those shit heads but that is for another day.

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Storm11

Having good AW tires on the back vs. snow tires should make NO difference if you actually know how to drive.

If the tires on the back were good enough for that to be true, there would be no reason to replace the ones on the front. This seems like simple common sense, but I guess that isn't so common. I guess that is why tire shops find it necessary to treat you like an eight year old.

If the car handles reasonably well to begin with, and then you go and add a ton of grip to the front, it isn't going to handle so reasonably anymore. Obviously the tire shop manager was unsuccessful in imparting that little bit of wisdom.

**focus** · 01-19-2008, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Garrett

You are essentially a fucking retard if you put 2 snows on the front of a FWD car.

The great majority of your stop, most of your turn, and all of your go depend on the front wheels of a FWD car. Unless you're too dumb to realize that your back end may be a little loose around slick corners and aren't competent enough to correct for it: WHY the fuck would you ever put your snows on the back of a FWD car? Seriously asking here. Spell it out for me.

**haydukelives** · 01-19-2008, 05:25 PM

just take the wheels off and bring them in separately. some say that the back may swing around in a sudden stop, but that could happen anyway.

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by focus

WHY the fuck would you ever put your snows on the back of a FWD car? Seriously asking here. Spell it out for me.

Because I don't drive like a pussy, ergo I appreciate having a car that handles reasonably well near the limit. And more importantly, I don't buy all season tires for cars, only trucks. All season tires are like "all mountain" skis, uniformly shitty. Summer tires on the back and good snows on the front would be interesting, but not wise.

I guess maybe if you are driving some shitbox with mediocre snow tires on the front you might not notice.

**focus** · 01-19-2008, 05:56 PM

Oh. I see. You're one of those jackasses.

I drive to get places, I grew out of that other shit when I was 17. I buy all season tires for spring, summer, and fall because I need something that can handle rain, dry pavement, and the occasional snow -- sometimes all in the same week. I don't push the "limit" dood, b/c taking the chance of wrecking myself and maybe some other family is really, really fucking stupid. I hope you take that adolescent shit out on the track.

I drive a shitbox with really good snow tires all the way around, btw, though said shitbox has seen winters with really good snow tires only on the front.

What really sweet, pushing the limits shitbox do you drive?

**Gripen** · 01-19-2008, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Storm11

Hell, that thing handles better on icy roads than my Tacoma in 4X4 with the hubs locked.

I would certainly fucking hope so. How does that help on ICY roads at all?

Look I got a truck I can drive on ICE now.... fucktard.

I fully agree that snows should be put on all 4 wheels. Can you drive and survive with only 2, sure. It is responsible or the safest, most effective way to do it. Hell no.

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by focus

I don't push the "limit" dood, b/c taking the chance of wrecking myself and maybe some other family is really, really fucking stupid.

Neither do I, dumbfuck. The interesting thing about limits is that when they are higher, and when they are more forgiving, you can back off them and still be cruising.

Driving a car with crappy tires on the back is not confidence inspiring. Now you have limits that are both low and unforgiving. All because you are too cheap to buy a couple tires. Real smart.

**rideit** · 01-19-2008, 06:34 PM

Holy piss n' cheerios, batmen!

Someone's not getting any powder days in!

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 06:36 PM

Not for a couple weeks. Will be skiing the next two days though, so here is hopin'

**focus** · 01-19-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Garrett

Driving a car with crappy tires on the back is not confidence inspiring. Now you have limits that are both low and unforgiving. All because you are too cheap to buy a couple tires. Real smart.

OK, but you still have limits you can back off of. The snow tires on the back conventional wisdom stems from idiots who don't understand that just because their car will accelerate and stop better doesn't mean they really increased their limits by a ton. I guess that's what I was kneejerking to.

It isn't confidence inspiring to drive a car w/ crappy tires on the front either. Less so. If you're going to buy only two, put them on the front. If you can afford it, buy 4. Being able to follow a reasonable rotation schedule will extend your tire life anyways.

**SkiingBear** · 01-19-2008, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Garrett

blah, blah, blah, dumbfuck, blah, blah, blah, dumbfuck

Try constructive writing sometime...I can't even get through your posts they're so poorly worded. Calling someone a dumbfuck every other sentence isn't getting your point across. You can argue that you need 4 snowtires on a FWD car all you want. I had snows on only the front two tires on my FWD in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan for my 3 years up there. You find me worse winter driving conditions than that and I'll start listening to you. (Feel free to bag on snowfall in Michigan...but the UP is the only place I've ever seen where towns have double and triple decker rotary plows. Yes, even living in Utah in skiing in the Cottonwoods...the UP always seemed to have more snow on the ground.)

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by SkiingBear

Yes, even living in Utah in skiing in the Cottonwoods...the UP always seemed to have more snow on the ground.)

Indeed a snowy place. FWIW, I haven't noticed the snowiest places to be the most challenging driving conditions. The craptastic ice storm places are worse IMO, first being slicker than anything, then with the awesome slush ruts. I found living at the top of Parley's and cruising around to the various Utah canyons to be just plain fun driving.

**Storm11** · 01-19-2008, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gripen

I would certainly fucking hope so. How does that help on ICY roads at all?

Look I got a truck I can drive on ICE now.... fucktard.

Jesus H. Christ... this place really is being over-run by dumbfuck douchebags.

Hmmm.... lets see.... all 4 wheels applying power to the road... the front two (which are the most effective in slick conditions because of the weight of the engine, etc.) are applying EVEN power to the road, which will help keep the vehicle to track. Does it help with braking...no. But if you LEARN HOW TO TRULY FUCKING DRIVE YOUR VEHICLE and FUCKING PAY ATTENTION you shouldn't really have to use your brakes much at all.

As for the rest of your asenine response, I put Hakka Qs on all 4 wheels for 2 seasons, then went back to Potenza G009s on the back 2 years ago and cannot tell the difference... except on my wallet.

**jon turner** · 01-19-2008, 08:16 PM

2 non-studded snow tires up front with decent all-seasons in rear (decent is key here) has always been fine for me. I haven't heard of any change in laws to make it unlawful to only mount two snow tires. I know most places have told me if you run studs, you must run all 4, but it's ok to run only 2 non-studded tires. I used to put my snows up front in the winter with all seasons in the rear, then switch them in the summer. Made for a decent compromise between all-seasons/snows and cost.

As far as Big O, maybe they have a company policy to sell 4 tires at a time, but that seems like a bad idea as people like you would just go somewhere else.

**Gripen** · 01-19-2008, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Storm11

Jesus H. Christ... this place really is being over-run by dumbfuck douchebags.

Hmmm.... lets see.... all 4 wheels applying power to the road... the front two (which are the most effective in slick conditions because of the weight of the engine, etc.) are applying EVEN power to the road, which will help keep the vehicle to track. Does it help with braking...no. But if you LEARN HOW TO TRULY FUCKING DRIVE YOUR VEHICLE and FUCKING PAY ATTENTION you shouldn't really have to use your brakes much at all.

As for the rest of your asenine response, I put Hakka Qs on all 4 wheels for 2 seasons, then went back to Potenza G009s on the back 2 years ago and cannot tell the difference... except on my wallet.

Because getting up to speed i.e. accelerating is the most important aspect of driving in ICE, couldn't be braking, turning or anything like that...

If you went from this
http://www.tirefactory.net/Hakkapeliitta%20Q.htm
To this
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....G+009&x=14&y=7

and cant tell a difference you are either A) a complete and utter moron or B) live in a place where you don't actually need snow tires.

Seeing as your from Durango, probably a little of both.

**Storm11** · 01-19-2008, 09:01 PM

Or C.) I know how to properly drive my car so that I don't need a siped tire in back.

and LEARN TO FUCKING READ. IF you had read my last post closely enough (and have ANY sort of base level understanding of how different types of vehicles perform in certain conditions....which I'm starting to see you don't...) then you might have learned that by being in 4WD with the front end locked, then as you accelerate and steer properly through a corner, the front tires will pull the front end in the proper direction and the rear wheels, since they have power, will push the rear end of the vehicle into alignment with the front wheels, thus the vehicle will stay on track through the turn.

As for braking in slick conditions, like I said above, has NOTHING to do with whether you have a 4WD, AWD, FWD or RWD. I'm sure you would also say I'm an idiot for buying a vehicle without ABS. But once again, as long as you (and I'll say it again) PAY ATTENTION and KNOW HOW TO DRIVE (and stop) YOUR VEHICLE then ABS makes absolutely no difference.

Quit trying to argue something you clearly know little about.

And yeah.... we NEVER get snow down here in Durango... or Silverton or T-ride, or Wolf Creek and I most certainly never go to any of those places.

**Garrett** · 01-19-2008, 09:06 PM

The thing I find most amusing (though it wouldn't be amusing if I did it on a regular basis) about the lousy tires on the back method is what it does to brake balance. I guess ABS masks this (and EBD more so on newer cars) but it still sucks. Without ABS, throwing grippy tires on the front of a car is a good way to make it swap ends under braking.

Originally Posted by jon turner

I know most places have told me if you run studs, you must run all 4, but it's ok to run only 2 non-studded tires.

This only makes sense if the snow tires you are buying for the front aren't really that much better than the all season tires you have anyways. Studs aren't magic. I assure you a good set of studless snows on the front of the car and all seasons in back is just as unwise as the same situation with studs.

Originally Posted by Storm11

I put Hakka Qs on all 4 wheels for 2 seasons, then went back to Potenza G009s on the back 2 years ago and cannot tell the difference...

This pretty much says it all. I have a friend who can tell you when one corner of a car is just a pound or two off. You can't tell the difference between snow tires and all season tires. Most of us are somewhere in between those experiences in a giant land called Common Sensia. You've demonstrated in writing that you don't understand vehicle dynamics with your asinine (note spelling) explanation of How Trucks Work, and you've admitted now you can't tell vastly different tires apart on the road. Nicely done.