LOST -- how good/bad will season 4 be?

**tuffy109** · 02-25-2008, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

I was reading another forum that suggested Jack said that eight survived the crash, but two died on the island. I certainly never heard that. Did anyone else?

he said that during kate's trial

**The AD** · 02-25-2008, 12:29 PM

I just rewatched this part and Jack actually says "she [Kate] tried to save the other two, but they..." and that's when Kate butts in and stops Jack's testimony. This show is very careful about what exactly is said, and what is not said, so I don't think we really know what happened to the other two at this point.

**igBand** · 02-25-2008, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

I just rewatched this part and Jack actually says "she [Kate] tried to save the other two, but they..." and that's when Kate butts in and stops Jack's testimony. This show is very careful about what exactly is said, and what is not said, so I don't think we really know what happened to the other two at this point.

Damn. Good catch, AD. I missed that first time around. Definitely seems like an important little nugget of info.

**tuffy109** · 02-25-2008, 03:35 PM

more importantly who the other two are.

do you think they try and claim ben as a passenger? or desmond?

further out....

ben's man on their boat = ben?

crazy wrinkle in time shit?

**igBand** · 02-25-2008, 03:39 PM

One quick question for the collective:

Are we supposed to assume that the last three episode of "flash-forward" are happening concurrently? In other words, are Kate's trial, Sayid's campaign of death, Hurley's visit by Jack and Charlie, etc., supposed to be happening at the same time?

**igBand** · 02-25-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by tuffy109

crazy wrinkle in time shit?

Oh man...if the show really starts going towards the whole time-warpy thing, it's going to get interesting real quick.

**vtdownhiller** · 02-25-2008, 04:02 PM

Interesting to find out what happened to Desmond, since he and Saye'd left together on the helicopter and we know Saye'd got off the island

**Greydon Clark** · 02-25-2008, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by tuffy109

further out....

ben's man on their boat = ben?

crazy wrinkle in time shit?

It seems unlikely that Miles would ask Ben for $3.3 million if Ben’s doppelganger was on the boat.

**gg8983** · 02-25-2008, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by igBand

One quick question for the collective:

Are we supposed to assume that the last three episode of "flash-forward" are happening concurrently? In other words, are Kate's trial, Sayid's campaign of death, Hurley's visit by Jack and Charlie, etc., supposed to be happening at the same time?

I remember reading that one of the producers said the flashforwards were happening consecutively.

I don't think the person in the coffin was one of the 6, they made a point in Kate's trial to say that she is one of the most recognizable faces in the country. If one of the six died, there would be someone there at the funeral.

Great point about the other 2 being Walt and Michael. I am curious why Jack would say 2 people were killed on the island but leave out the rest of the survivors. Why not just lie and say only 6 survived?

**Nanuq** · 02-25-2008, 06:24 PM

We are all assuming the writers are thinking like us vis-a-vis Aaron.

What if one of the other Oceanic Six was Aaron's real Mom? What happened to her and how does that impact the rest of the story-line.

That said, I am still betting the dead person at the funeral home was Locke.

**sftc** · 02-25-2008, 08:38 PM

It wouldn't be a stretch for Kate and/or Jack to claim that Claire died during birth on the island and in court Jack gave Kate credit for saving 8, while Dr. Jack was apparently unable to help-
So to jumble the numbers, how about this:
1. Jack
2. Kate
3. Hurley
4. Saye'd
5. Aaron
6. Un-ID'd survivor #6

7. Claire- Dead on the island
8. Un- ID'd dead survivor #2

If Ben is as slick and twisted as he appears to be I'd bet he got off the island in some other way, or was hidden on the freighter on the way out after striking a deal with Miles. Or it was freighter crew's goal to get Ben off the island without anyone else noticing. And maybe Sawyer worked with Ben to get off secretly as well, and he's the dead guy, with a new name, in the coffin. Both Jack and Kate probably had pretty good reasons not to like him by the end.
For the time warp thing, I assume you all noticed the time of the rocket that landed near the helicopter was off by about 30 minutes over the duration of a flight that should have only taken a few minutes at most.

**The AD** · 02-25-2008, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by gg8983

I remember reading that one of the producers said the flashforwards were happening consecutively.

Well, we know the scene that concluded last season was clearly later than the flash forwards that have been shown this season, so I don't know about that.

I don't think the person in the coffin was one of the 6, they made a point in Kate's trial to say that she is one of the most recognizable faces in the country. If one of the six died, there would be someone there at the funeral.

Yes, I agree 100% Also the newspaper clipping Jack read mentioning the death didn't say anything about the person being one of the Six, and it certainly would have.

Great point about the other 2 being Walt and Michael. I am curious why Jack would say 2 people were killed on the island but leave out the rest of the survivors. Why not just lie and say only 6 survived?

There must be a reason. If Dharma, or whoever it is, concocted this whole story about what happened to the Six, there would be no point in mentioning the other two unless there was a specific reason they needed to. Perhaps six people and two bodies make it back to the mainland?

Also, I don't think Desmond would be passed off as an Oceanic survivor. Lots of people would have the flight manifest and there are also plenty of people who would know Desmond and that he was sailing solo around the world.

**tuffy109** · 02-25-2008, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Greydon Clark

It seems unlikely that Miles would ask Ben for $3.3 million if Ben’s doppelganger was on the boat.

$3.2 dude

if you're gonna poke holes in my questions, you could at least do me a solid and get the simple shit down

**Schmear** · 02-26-2008, 10:41 AM

I wonder if Ben and Miles were talking in code to each other? Kind of like how "Tell my sister I love her" was Naomi's code to the freighter people that she was in trouble. Maybe $3.2 million was Miles' way of telling Ben something specific was going on or about to happen.

**Stu Gotz** · 02-26-2008, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Schmear

I wonder if Ben and Miles were talking in code to each other? Kind of like how "Tell my sister I love her" was Naomi's code to the freighter people that she was in trouble. Maybe $3.2 million was Miles' way of telling Ben something specific was going on or about to happen.

I was wondering about that also. And Ben's replies of "why not x dollars, or y dollars?" And the timing of "i need it in 2 days." and then "Make it a week." Seems like some sort of code.

**Schmear** · 02-26-2008, 11:07 AM

And also what was the deal with Daniel and Charlotte playing cards? Is Daniel experiencing some kind of memory loss? It would explain his odd behavior since landing on the island.

**tuffy109** · 02-26-2008, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Nanuq

What if one of the other Oceanic Six was Aaron's real Mom?

i don't think anyone doubts that claire is aaron's real mom. didn't they all watch the birth?

**Schmear** · 02-26-2008, 02:35 PM

Alrighty, I got this from another forum. $3.2 is written out 3,200,000--or 3, 2, and 5 zeros. So 325. That is the bearing to reach/leave the island. So it could be that Miles was telling Ben in code that the freighter people know how to reach the island and possibly capture Ben or do whatever else they intend.

**The AD** · 02-26-2008, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Schmear

So it could be that Miles was telling Ben in code that the freighter people know how to reach the island and possibly capture Ben or do whatever else they intend.

Or Miles could be Ben's "man on the freighter."

**Schmear** · 02-26-2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by The AD

Or Miles could be Ben's "man on the freighter."

I agree. Miles needed to urgently reach Ben, and made a deal with Kate to do so, and then delivered a message to his boss in code.

**igBand** · 02-26-2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Schmear

I agree. Miles needed to urgently reach Ben, and made a deal with Kate to do so, and then delivered a message to his boss in code.

I like this theory a lot. However, it begs the following question: Why would Ben be so concerned about preventing Jack et al from making that initial call on the satellite phone? If he wanted to contact his "man on the freighter", wouldn't he almost encourage Jack from making that call.

On the other hand, Ben appears to be the master of the mind-fuck. He was probably just making it seem like he didn't want them to make contact (and keep the the rescuers from getting to the island) when in fact he wanted the exact opposite.

**Elkhound Odin** · 02-29-2008, 10:00 AM

Last night was one of the best episodes of the series. Great coverage of the mysterious space/time continuum paradox. Not only does the island generate the paradox, but apparently it can be generated in a lab with a funky light and a white rat.

I especially felt Desmond's confusion and desperation of trying understand his situation and save his life.

What seems to be a contradiction is the timing of Desmond's breakup with his GF. We were offered that he broke up three years prior to the 815 crash, about 2001. The time paradox changed that to 1996. Hmmm, are we going to find 2 Desmonds wondering the earth?

**igBand** · 02-29-2008, 11:44 AM

I agree. Last night was one of the better episodes this year, if not in the series.

Something to chew on...

Any chance Penny's father is involved in some way? At the auction where Desmond first confronted him (in the flashback), they were auctioning off the log from an old ship. Her dad won the item.

Could that same ship be the mysterious old one that was washed up in the middle of the jungle (where they got all of the dynamite and where Sawyer killed Locke's dad)?

**Schmear** · 02-29-2008, 11:48 AM

Wow, that was a really great episode. Lots of new information and great acting.

It's been hinted at in previous seasons that Penny's dad (Mr. Widmore) is involved in the whole island scheme in some mysterious way.

Didn't Desmond break up with Penny twice? Once when he joined the military and again later when he entered the sailing contest? Maybe I'm wrong about that.

**StormRider** · 02-29-2008, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by igBand

Any chance Penny's father is involved in some way? At the auction where Desmond first confronted him (in the flashback), they were auctioning off the log from an old ship. Her dad won the item.

Could that same ship be the mysterious old one that was washed up in the middle of the jungle (where they got all of the dynamite and where Sawyer killed Locke's dad)?

I think it’s very likely penny’s father is involved in some way.
The log book is from the first mate of ship in the middle of the island – the Black Rock.

Best episode in a long time.