LOST -- how good/bad will season 4 be?

**gg8983** · 02-08-2008, 03:13 PM

Ben seemed very concerned when hurley mentioned the house, I think he will try to get to hurley some how using that info. They attempted to humor the fans by having Locke as about the monster but still no answers.

For some reason I think they are at day 80ish but im not sure.

**StormRider** · 02-08-2008, 03:25 PM

I’m going to suggest that Oceanic is part of Dharma. The airline is used to monitor what’s going on, not to look for it. They drop supplies and they monitor. Dharma sent the “rescuers” to collect Ben because of the mass murder. They planted the fake flight 815 so people (NTSB) would stop looking for it and not find the island. Ben and Dharma/Oceanic are closely linked. That is how he knew everything about everyone on 815 and how he “has” someone one the boat. Oceanic could, in theory, be a funding mechanism for Dharma. In reality it seems like airlines don’t make any money, but it is TV so anything is possible.
I can’t remember how Ben and The Others got to the island. Under the theory I’ going with here, if it wasn’t by people acting as Dharma, it was people acting for Dharma under a different name. He may not even be aware of the connection.

**gg8983** · 02-08-2008, 03:34 PM

Remember that Naomi had a picture of Desmond and Penny on her when she parachuted in so he is also connected to this as well somehow.

The helicoptor was painted exactly the same as the Oceanic plane, another connection between the two.

BLOOD SWEAT STEEL · 02-08-2008, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by StormRider

I’m going to suggest that Oceanic is part of Dharma.

Clearly. The 815 plane in the Tabla Rasa episode had a Dharma logo on it. Furthermore, if you remember when Claire's baby was in the lab nursery - the mobile hanging above her crib had an Oceanic plane dangling from it. The creators also said the plane crashed for a specific reason and that it would be revealed this season.

Also real quick before I forget about the attorney Matthew Abbadon. Abbadon is the name of the death angel in Revelation 9:11. Abbadon also means destroyer in Greek. Just FYI.

**The AD** · 02-08-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by StormRider

Dharma sent the “rescuers” to collect Ben because of the mass murder.

I don't think so because why would they have waited so long? The Purge happened many years before the 815 crash. I think the reason they waited so long is they couldn't find the island until now. The 815 crash and subsequent Swan station explosion tipped them off on the approximate location of the island, as it did for Penny's team. So, yes, Oceanic and Dharma could be related, but I can't see how they've been monitoring the island all these years.

**tuffy109** · 02-08-2008, 04:19 PM

dharma knows where the island is. they have to. how else did ben's dad, as part of dharma, get there?

**The AD** · 02-08-2008, 04:33 PM

They certainly did know back then, but if they are still able to get there, why haven't they? Ot maybe Dharma ceased to exist when all their members were killed on the island. I find it hard to believe they had no one back on the mainland, though.

**StormRider** · 02-08-2008, 04:56 PM

I forgot “the purge” happened years before the crash. Damn timeline jumps got me all mixed up.

I still think they were monitoring it and not looking for it. Dharma set up the island and created the station to push the button. How would they lose the island?

If the Dharma Initiative was really set up to study the behavior of the people on the island “the purge” wouldn’t necessarily cause Dharma to grab Ben. Maybe now, he knows too much and Dharma is afraid he will crack?

Dharma may have ceased to exist, officially, following the purge (according to the timeline Hanso stopped funding Dharma and the purge happened in 1987) but I think it is still around even if underground.

**gg8983** · 02-08-2008, 05:39 PM

Maybe Dharma didnt really know about the purge. Mikhail could have been maintining communications as normal. Juliet came to the island only 3 years before the plane crash. Ben and the Others had to have some kind of a front back in civilization in order to recruit her.

**Schmear** · 02-08-2008, 10:35 PM

Another good episode. The show is really starting to kick into gear.

Regarding plot lines picked up and dropped, if you look at the narrative in terms of days the survivors have spent on the island and not in the number of seasons the show has been on the air, you can sort of forgive the writers for leaving certain things alone for a while. It may be a year or so since we saw Juliette and Kate being chased by Smokey at the sonic fence thingy, but in island time that may have only been a few days ago.

I don't know if Oceanic is a front for Dharma. But it could be that when the plane mysteriously crashed, certain knowedgable and powerful persons (like the Widmore guy) may have pressured Oceanic and financed a scheme to deceive the world in order to keep the island a secret.

That Matthew Abbadon guy is creepy. And cool. What's his deal?

AD, I remember the ash around Jacob's cabin looking like it was placed there, in a line or maybe in a ring around the cabin. Some have speculated that the ash resembled that of an occult practice to confine a spirit in one area.

My recollection of the premiere episode was that the plane crashed on a perfectly sunny day. There wasn't any "turbulence" until shortly before the plane broke apart and went down.

The island isn't visible until you're actually on it. This helps explain the "the light is different here" comment. There is some kind of shield over the island. But I don't think the freighter people thought they were going to land in water. They were in radio contact with Jack and others before they arrived and probably surmised that they were existing on land of some sort.

If Dharma no longer exists, who sends the food drops? Maybe there is a disconnected element of Dharma somewhere nearby that isn't fully aware of changes that occurred over the years. Perhaps Ben kept them in the dark in order to keep his people supplied. Or maybe it's just a convenient way for the writers to keep the Losties (especially Hurley) well fed.

Yeah, it's a bit tiring seeing Ben pull cards out of his sleeve at the last minute, but it totally suits his character. He's a survivor and manipulator. (To whoever asked how Ben got to the island, it was with his dad who accepted a Dharma position while still in the "real world.") And I think Ben knows most if not all of the island's secrets. He's just careful what he lets on. Although it's unclear at this point if his rendering of information and persons (like Locke's dad) on the island is due to some kind of special power or just shrewd information gathering.

**Schmear** · 02-08-2008, 10:36 PM

Now that we know Naomi is/was the hired leader of the freighter crew, how did she find the island and know where to parachute down in the first place? Was it because the guys in the polar observatory detected the magnetic event (when Locke insisted the buttons not be pressed) and gave her the coordinates? Does that mean that Naomi is collaborating with Penny? (Naomi had the picture of Penny and Desmond after all.) Is that a good or bad thing? If Naomi didn't know there were crash survivors before she got there (or was assured there weren't any by that Abbadon guy), why was she hired to go? And why did she bring the picture of Desmond and Penny?

**tuffy109** · 02-09-2008, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Schmear

The island isn't visible until you're actually on it. This helps explain the "the light is different here" comment. There is some kind of shield over the island.

what about the episode when (during jack, sawyer and kate's captivity) ben takes sawyer for a walk and shows him the island from "another" island?

sawyer and kate canoe to the island

sawyer and jin see the island from their boat when they tried to set sail too.

shit, i can see the island from here. i think it's visible to the eye, just not to instrumentation (the jamming stuff prolly screws everything up)

**Schmear** · 02-09-2008, 08:35 AM

So maybe the islands aren't visible until you're actually on them?

**The AD** · 02-15-2008, 12:11 AM

Now we've got Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid as four of the Oceanic Six. Any guesses who the other two are. Could it be Michael and Walt?

**char** · 02-15-2008, 03:52 AM

I'm curious to see how Ben weasels his way off the island. And why and who he has Sayid killing off. Dharma?

What was in Ben's hidden office? His supplies and aliases for off island travel? How the fuck does he come and go?

Where did the cabin go?

Something is definitely up with the time warp thing mentioned before. Why doesn't it seem to affect their communication with the ship?

More interesting to me is why those who are part of the Oceanic Six got chosen, not who. They seem like kind of a diverse group to bring. Maybe they are the only ones who wanted to leave? Although Kate probably wouldn't because of the jail time she is facing.

**Grange** · 02-15-2008, 02:19 PM

I noticed Sayid said something to the effect that he'd sell his soul before he'd trust Ben. Then you find out he's killing for Ben. To me that's pretty close to selling his soul so I wonder what he trusted Ben about.

**sftc** · 02-21-2008, 10:55 PM

Hum, my Wife loves the show and as much as I try to get away I get sucked back in.
Interesting tonight that Jack lied in court about the whole crash and how many people survived, he said 8, so does that include the baby? Also, he said they crashed on "an island" versus saying the Dharma island or a named island.
And I assume everyone noticed that Kate's baby's name was Aaron- Clair's (?? the blond chick) baby.

**gg8983** · 02-22-2008, 02:01 PM

Great episode. Locke is really becoming more and more of a badass dictator. I think his actions will come to blow up in his face. People (especially Sawyer) do not want to be bosses around indefinitely. Once their confidence in him begins to wavier they are all going to go back on the Jack train.

It is interesting that Jack said 8 survived but only 6 get off the island. When I first watched I thought Kate was implying the baby was Jack's, I was quickly corrected at the end. What is going to happen to Claire? She is so hot, I will be disappointed if they kill her off with out at least some post-preggers bikini shots.

**igBand** · 02-22-2008, 02:57 PM

Baby (rather toddler I guess) Aaron was definitely a surprise.

I think it is pretty safe to assume this Aaron is Claire's "Aaron". That would leave only one remaining member of the Oceanic Six, correct?

Jack, Kate, Sayid, Aaron, and Hurley

However, we don't know if Ben gets counted in that total. If that is the case, then we have the all six.

Hmmm....

**Stu Gotz** · 02-22-2008, 03:01 PM

I just want claire to yell "The Dingo ate my baby!"

Some low-down dirty shenanigans must have occurred with Aaron for Jack to pass up the sweet morsel of goodness that is Kate.

I thought last night's epsiode was a bit blah following the "Sayid the Righteous Hitman of Fury" episode.

**The AD** · 02-24-2008, 11:18 PM

I missed the episode last week so just now watched it on abc.com. I thought they said on the commercials last week another of the six would be named, so I'm assuming that it's Aaron. Jack said eight people survived, so you've got to assume the "other two" are Michael and Walt.

**Nanuq** · 02-25-2008, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by igBand

Baby (rather toddler I guess) Aaron was definitely a surprise.

I think it is pretty safe to assume this Aaron is Claire's "Aaron". That would leave only one remaining member of the Oceanic Six, correct?

Jack, Kate, Sayid, Aaron, and Hurley

However, we don't know if Ben gets counted in that total. If that is the case, then we have the all six.

Hmmm....

And don't forget the dead guy from the season finale from season 3. That could be the last of the Oceanic Six. I was thinking it was Locke, but he was either killed by Sayid or soome other agent of doom, or killed himself.

Just a thought.

**igBand** · 02-25-2008, 11:19 AM

Jack referred to the dead guy from the end of season three as neither a friend nor family.
So Locke would definitely fit with that profile in my opinion, especially considering the direction in which their relationship is heading. But so would Ben...and we know he made it off the island.

**tuffy109** · 02-25-2008, 11:35 AM

so why did kate say the thing about the baby being sawyer's? did i hear that right?

**The AD** · 02-25-2008, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by tuffy109

so why did kate say the thing about the baby being sawyer's? did i hear that right?

No, I don't think she ever said that.

I was reading another forum that suggested Jack said that eight survived the crash, but two died on the island. I certainly never heard that. Did anyone else?

Also, at some point the general public must have realized the airplane discovered in the Sunda Trench was not really Flight 815 since Jack clearly said, in court, that 815 crashed on an island in the South Pacific.

Another possibility for the dead guy at the end of last season is Miles.