LOST -- how good/bad will season 4 be?

[Schmear]

I’d attribute Michael’s blank look to not wanting his cover blown.

Same here. It also explains why Sayid and Desmond played along and shook hands--they didn't want to blow Kevin/Michael's cover.

[Nanuq]

I forget, did Desmond and Michael meet?

[igBand]

Unless I'm mistaken, Michael was around when they first got into the hatch (which is when Desmond was first introduced). Yes?

[Nanuq]

Interesting episode. Had more nuts than last weeks (but I think Juliet is the weakest charactwer on the show anyway).

I don't think Jin is still alive. I think that the baby and such he went to was all before the plane crash. But there has got to be some odd time twist or funky thing going on.

Also, on my run today I had a thought about Kate and the baby - Claire dies in the upcoming attack on Locke's camp and Kate takes up the motherly duties. I don't think it will be anything more ominous than that.

[Sensisnow]

One thing I noticed in this episode that has me confused is why there were 3 dates on Jin's tombstone.



The 3 dates, from left to right, are March 20 1980, November 27 1974, & September 23 2004.

Obviously, 9/23/04 is the date that the plane crashed (presumably his death as well) and I'm guessing that one of the other dates is his date of birth, but what is the significance of the third date?

[Schmear]

I read somewhere that the third date is probably Sun's birthday. I guess it's common for husbands and wives to share tombstones in Korea.

Soap opera for men. It fits, I like it.

[Nanuq]

I just read an article about the actor who plays Michael. He was asked a bunch of questions he couldn't answer, but he did answer that yes, indeed, his chcracter of Michael did make it back to New York. Next week's episode is going to be Michael-centric and give a bunch of answers. But I guess the character did get back to New York. As for Walt, no answers.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

Michael made a deal with the devil and he's playing it cool. Somehow though, I still think Ben is the Saboteur. It's definitely time for Juliet to make her way off the show. Her schtick is getting really annoying. At least they have some decent reasons not to kill Ben. Juliet doesn't serve much of a purpose in the big picture though.

In some way deep down, I think Ben and Charles Widmore are in cahoots. Originally I think Ben may have gone there to work for him but then developed other agendas and enjoyed his newfound fame as the mayor of lostville too much to revert. We really need another Penny/Desmond episode to sort some of this stuff out though. Desmond is the hinge of the whole plot. In the end, I think the whole show will mostly all play out as a good vs. evil type of struggle between Penny (the starcrossed lover) & Charles (the puppetmaster).

[tuffy109]

remember, ben went to the island as a child. i don't think he was an 11 year old mercenary.

i don't think ben's time travelling. i just think he has good access. you guys are getting a little too out there with your ideas.

should i set up a paypal account for plot theory betting or not? you guys would be broke.

[Sensisnow]

I read somewhere that the third date is probably Sun's birthday. I guess it's common for husbands and wives to share tombstones in Korea.

I read the same thing just after posting that. It does make sense, I guess I am just accustomed to having the tombstones for husband and wife side by side, rather than being one.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

remember, ben went to the island as a child. i don't think he was an 11 year old mercenary.

i don't think ben's time travelling. i just think he has good access. you guys are getting a little too out there with your ideas.

should i set up a paypal account for plot theory betting or not? you guys would be broke.

"You guys?" Join the club. Getting a little far out there? Okay, possibly. Ben may not be "the man" on the boat via time travel or shapeshifting. Maybe my imagination is running wild. But niether is Michael. Michael is there as part of a dope deal with Ben in order to send Walt back to the world. Did the captain (or ben, via the captain) send walt away after they made it to the freighter? Did he leave to bring Walt back to the world and then have to return to work off his indebtedness? I don't know. Lotta hype about bringing an "old friend" back into the script but remember Michael already killed off three of the losties and then sold them all out before he even got off the island. He doesn't have a lot of loyalty and IMO he'll probably screw them all again if it's convenient for him. The man on the boat is the captain, and Michael left the note. That doesn't necessarily make him 100% trustworthy though. I still maintain that at some point in time Ben and Widmore formed an alliance but things went south between them.

Let's put a few theories out there. I'm going with the following:

-Jin chooses to stay on the island because he has to stay hidden from Paik. In sticking with "the story," he isn't one of the oceanic six nor the eight original survivors. The date on the tombstone (9/22/04) reaffirms this.

-Sawyer is #6. Sun is only #5. Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, Sawyer. Aaron doesn't "count" as one of the six because he isn't a "survivor." He wasn't on the flight manifest. Claire was number seven and Michael (possibly) was #8.

-Claire either dies next week or cannot leave the island anyways. Remember Claire's implant chip? I don't think she can leave the island or she will blow up/self destruct/whatever. Ben doesn't want her to leave for whatever reason. I haven't figured that part out yet. But if she lives and stays on the island it's because Ben wants to "keep" her. Blonde and good looking, just like Juliette. Juliette isn't going to last long either way. I think Claire may become Ben's new "constant" for his future travels after Juliette gets written out of the script. Regardless, we know Ben makes it back to the world because we see Sayid working for him. He's obviously not one of the six. Kate takes Aaron back to the world either by deal with Claire/Ben or by default when Claire dies. Convo between Kate and Jack - "I've go to get back before he gets suspicious." See above. He is Sawyer. Betcha.

-I think a LOT of people get slaughtered next week. A few (Locke's crew?) may remain unscathed, but I still think the freighter folks are basically there to kill everybody on the island to protect Widmore's interest. right now the freighter folks are basically collecting enough intel to smartly stage an attack on the inhabitants. Think back to the conversation between Sayid and Ben in the flash forward from a few weeks ago (Do you remember what happened to your friends?" or something to that effect, the convo between Hurley and Matthew Abbadon "Are they still alive?", Jack's "We have to go back there..." Something heinous goes on before the oceanic six make it out. Ben somehow slips under the radar as usual. How exactly do the oceanic six get back? I don't know. I don't think it's on the freighter or the helicopter though.

-Ben orchestrated staging the "real" 815 wreck to further divert attention from the island and throw off Widmore. The guy has resources and connections, we all already know that. We have already linked Dharma and Oceanic as being tied together a while back. Where did they get the bodies? I don't know. The purge perhaps?

*One thing I can't figure out is the Widmore/Abbadon connection. They obviously aren't in cahoots. Widmore owns the boat and the crew is working for him, right? But Naomi was receiving orders from Abbadon before the mission started. Does Abbadon work for Dharma? Is he a disgruntled former Widmore employee? Anybody have any insight? This is part of what leads me to surmise the captain is the "man on the boat."

FWIW My penny vs. charles widmore theory won't materialize until a ways out. Probably 2 seasons from now. Anyways, I think this is the basic twist on how the whole series ends. Next season will center basically on Ben (and Abbadon perhaps?) vs. Widmore.

[The AD]

The actress who plays Sun was born in 1973. The events on the island take place in 2004. It seems like a stretch for us to think she's only 24 when she's on the island (if she was born in 1980).

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

My head hurts.

[Schmear]

It'll come down to Penny and Desmond in the end. They're being set up now as the hero/heroine figures, and somehow they'll take down Widmore (I bet because he wants to open a franchise of Popeyes Chicken and Biscuits on the island--mark my words) or we'll find out they're working together with Widmore for some beneficial outcome for the survivors, or for the island. Penny will gradually take on a larger role as we get closer to the final season.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

I also think widmore has a way (somehow) of plotting the approximate location of the island. Maybe when the folks come to the island, they have some kind of tracking device that sends a signal (like a GPS or something) that can send a last known point type signal to widmore before the commo goes bad (remember the satellite phones wouldn't work until they unblocked the interference?) That way he can keep a thumb on the ballpark location and have folks (freighter) standing by ready to deploy when he can better pinpoint the exact location.

-Desmond's sailboat trip was originally financed by widmore and funny how he managed to sail directly into the island.
-Henry Gale's balloon. (If you have the DVD's go back and watch the Henry Gale episode.) It says "Widmore Labs" on the equipment.

*Not sure if flight 815 fits into this theory or not yet. Gotta think about that one a little more.

Additionally, I think Widmore actually owns the island and basically wants to get it back (Ben commenting on widmore wanting to exploit its potential) but Dharma and the magnet, and the white light, and Ben, and who knows who else are cockblocking him.

[Sensisnow]

BSS, I think your theory on the series is one of the best I've heard so far. A couple of things though...

-Desmond's sailboat trip was originally financed by widmore and funny how he managed to sail directly into the island.

I don't think Desmond's trip was actually financed by Widmore. Didn't he enter a race sponsored by Widmore instead? I agree that Widmore could have put on the race knowing that the coordinates he gave Desmond to follow would lead him directly towards the island, but I don't think he financed Desmond's efforts to get there.

Additionally, I think Widmore actually owns the island and basically wants to get it back (Ben commenting on widmore wanting to exploit its potential) but Dharma and the magnet, and the white light, and Ben, and who knows who else are cockblocking him.

I think that Widmore discovered the island after he won the auction for the Black Rock log and has since then spent a considerable amount of money searching for it. He seems like the type that would just love to exploit the powers of the island for his own personal gain.

[Nanuq]

I just rewatched "The Economist" episode of this season - the Sayid-centric one.

Two small things -

The first was the opening golf course scene was in the Seychelles.

Now to bring it around to that - when Kate was in Ben's house and with Sawyer, they were in Ben's bedroom. On the walls there was a lot of african art and tribal facial masks. That may be nothing, but I thought it may be relevant somehow - seeing as how the Seychelles were used in the episode.

Also, in the bedroom, the bed (Ben's bed) that Kate was sitting on was a hospital bed. It has the triangle bar patients use to pull themselves up with. Is Ben on the island because of its healing properties? I know he was there as a boy, but that seemed a bit out of place, or there for a reason.

[igBand]

I am assuming that the bed is a hospital bed because it was the one Ben used when recovering from the back surgery performed by Jack.

And to get back to an earlier comment about the show getting boring, I have to agree somewhat. The past few episodes have done a bit of a better job keeping my attention, but in whole, the show isn't as good as it used to be.

That being said, we really don't watch a whole lot of TV, so I really don't have a lot of comparison between Lost versus other stuff. I am still pissed I missed the whole "The Wire" train. By all accounts (even my mother who normally hates that stuff), it sounds like it was a great show. Maybe time to order it up on Netflix.

[Schmear]

Uh, I thought Locke was staying in Ben's house? I think you got it wrong there.

I agree that Widmore has sent people on quests to find the island for him, whether they knew it or not e.g. the balloonist, Desmond via the sailboat race, etc. Each time someone makes contact with the island via phone calls or giant EM releases, Widmore gets a little closer to pinpointing its exact location. Now he has a ship nearby with a helicopter.

[tuffy109]

are we to assume that michael and walt sailed the dinghy to manhattan?

[Elkhound Odin]

Sure, why not. There is plenty silly stuff in the show. Just add another "mystery" to the pile.

[philippeR]

The first was the opening golf course scene was in the Seychelles.

Here precisely.
Seychelles are not really connected to africa and has no ancient tribal traditions or arts.

(been there...)

[philippeR]

Now, I have a question, re the Oceanic 6.
I've a memory of the 3rd season finale that it was implicit that (back to civilisation) Kate was with Sawyer. (Jack talking with kate about her and Sawyer, something like that).
Now, it's obvious that Sawyer didn't make it out of the Island.

Is my memory failing me ?

[Greydon Clark]

I remember that too, it appears that implying “he” was Sawyer may have been a ruse.

Also, the bit about the island not allowing you to kill yourself was kind of lame. I did find it assuming that big burly Tom plays for the pink team.

[tuffy109]

she said "i have to get back to him", which probably means aaron

and no new episodes until april 24? wtfomgihts