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  1. #1
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    4frnt EHP 186 review

    Finally getting around to reviewing the EHP 186 I skied on Sunday.

    Me: Check my 182 vct review for description.

    Conditions: Two feet of new, light powder, on top of several feet from the past few days. End of a storm that brought 6-8 feet to Mammoth.

    Mounted right on the midsole line.

    Groomers: Coming off the ARG's from the day before these were very easy to ski on powder groomers. They are wide, with very little sidecut, so you definitely have to initiate the turn yourself, but they were not a big deal to handle at all on the groomed. I would not want to take them in a race course, but for the type of days I will use these negotiating groomers is no big deal.

    Powder: Skied these in 2 feet of fresh light snow, mostly chair 22 at Mammoth, which was not open, but which they allowed us to hike. They had a super surfy feel, much like the ARG's from the day before, but not quite as exreme due to the traditional sidecut. The early rise tip and pin tail really do the trick of keeping the tip up, and much like the ARG, these want to be skied forward. I found that by pressuring the tongues of my boots, as if I was on a groomer I had lots of power and control. These definitely want a forward style, the more forward your stance, and the faster you go, the easier they are to turn. They knife through powder with such ease that I almost thought I was on ARG's again. The feel is very similar. In my last review I wrote that going from explosivs/pistols to ARG's was like going from skinny to fat skis, well I would say the same thing about the EHP's. If I had not skied the ARG's the day before my mind would have been completely blown. To me they felt as if they had 98% of the powder performance of the ARG's. I did not find a speed limit, the faster I went, and the more forward I was, the more control I had. I did not dig the tip, the early rise tip seems practically impossible to bury. I would actually advise one to ski powder as if you are trying to bury the tip, as this will keep you as forward as possible. I was able to make quick tail skids to adjust my line when I wanted to, these have so little sidecut that they do not lock one into a turn. They are very fun in the trees, as they turn quickly at speed without locking into a carve. At speed, they turned very easily and were very responsive, without having to load the ski, very similar the ARG. I would say they are very close to the ARG in powder performance, the difference is not much. While I did skid the tails a bit, I did not try any full powerslides, which I would have liked to test.

    Chop/crud: As the snow got more cut up I got to try these in crud. Here I would say they were superior to the ARG's. The early rise tip works in cut up snow much the way it does in powder, it keeps you above it and makes everything far more effortless. Once again, the trick is to stay as forward as possible, the more you do, the more control you have and the less you will get knocked around. It really is possible to skim right over the crud, the early rise tip allowed me to ski it really aggressively, with a very forward stance. You don't have to worry about catching a tip, so you just stay forward. I did get knocked around a bit, but I don't think any more so than I would have on my CMH's or pistols. Overall, I prefer the EHP's to either of those skis for the crud I have skied so far. I should also add that compared to the ARG's, the EHP's lose far less of their performance as the snow gets more chopped up and packed down. I was able to make high speed turns through the lines below the traverse beneath chair 22, which were very cut up, with some crud bumps in places, with plenty of confidence. With the crud bumps you just blast right over them. I would not want to ski these through the troughs, the way bumps are traditionally skied, but for blasting over the tops of crud bumps they are great. I couple of times I felt the tips deflect, but not seriously enough to cause much bother. Overall, I could see some of the hardest chargers on this board, guys who think 194 squads are for pussies being bothered by the slight softness of these, but for me they were fine.

    I did not get to ski these in any chutes where hop turns on firm snow would be required. I would have liked to. Overall, I think they would handle these fine, as the midsole mounting point is pretty far forward. Also, with the rise in the tip and tail, you do not have to worry as much about tip hook as you would on a traditional shape. The shorter running surface would also probably make hop turns easier, although I am just speculating. Hopefully I will get to try them out soon in these conditions. I also did not get to straightline anything, Palisades style, so I am not sure how they would work in those conditions. However, as long as it was soft and smooth these feel as if they would do well, better than ARG's certainly. As things get packed down, I might prefer the explosives for the end of the straightline, when the area below the 'sades gets pretty choppy, but these seem to be a good cross between an explosive and an ARG, in terms of performance. The advantage I assume they have over the ARG's in straightlining and technical turns is why I bought them. Your first two or three Palisades points of the day should be just fine. I did not get to hit any cliffs, with them, but hopefully that will happen soon. I imagine the early rise tip will help prevent going over the bars, and allow one to really stay forward to prevent backseat landings.

    Overall: I absolutely love these, similar powder performance characteristics to an ARG, but more versatility. I should be able to ski these a couple of days after a storm, without problems, whereas an ARG is much more of a powder only option. They are certainly not an everyday ski, like a pistol, vicious, explosive, gotama, vct....However, the traditional sidecut and medium flex give them some versatility. As I said before, I could see how some of the biggest guys/hardest chargers on the board could find it not enough ski, but for me I did not find a speed limit. I cannot wait for this weekend, I will hopefully test them in some Mammoth wind buff.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  2. #2
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    What is your size and weight?
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  3. #3
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    155# 5'10" these skis are insanely versatile. They have very fast bases and ski the groomers at high speed with great stability unlike any other fat/rocker ski I've been on. They have a Super-G turn radius. This gives you much more edge grip if you encounter a scraped off section in your chute. They also get you back to a lift with far less effort and far more control and speed.

    The float and smear almost as well as Spats and DP138s. They are pretty close in terms of tree nimbleness (you just have to trust them). They sail over the crud incredibly well and are stable and damp. These are heavy skis (10.5#/pair).

    I recommend mounting them at least 2cm back, not for stability or float, but for authority over the tail in steeps or powder (the rockered tail will suddenly engage and give you less authority).

    They have replacedd my Gotamas as my mid-depth pow ski. Anything more than 4" means EHPs up until around 8 or 9" of fresh.

    I don't think what I wrote above was enthusiastic enough. The EHP is one of the most brilliant designs ever. EH and 4FRNT have produced an incredible winner. I've own Spats (4yrs), DP138s, DP120s, and EHP186s. I've also skied Pontoons and Jefes. The EHP186 is the most versatile of those skis. It is an awesome board and I think it is the BEST rockered ski on the market including against what I have seen for next years designs (excluding full reverse-reverse, where it gives everything a run for the money).
    Last edited by Summit; 02-06-2008 at 08:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  4. #4
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    i just picked up a pair and haven't mounted them yet. you say at least 2cm back. have you remounted yours? i know you mentioned it, but do you have any more insight into the mounting position? much appreciated.
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  5. #5
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    I have not mounted it back yet. Let me say this... the indicated mount puts them about right on for the cambered portion, but forward when considering the whole ski. Measuring confirmed this. It is possible to lose some ability to push the tail in pow and it definitely loses authority on steep tech snow when the tail will engage and try to carve you up the hill if you get thrown backseat. This opinion comes from 3 days on them (1 at Loveland 2 at Crested Butte) and they are presently mounted at -0.7cm I will probably move them to somewhere between -2.5 and -3.5
    Last edited by Summit; 02-06-2008 at 08:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  6. #6
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    thanks for the help. i'll play around with the mounting point today and see what seems best. i'm thinking 1-2cm back.
    Big skis from small companies at Backcountry Freeskier

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I recommend mounting them at least 2cm back, not for stability or float, but for authority over the tail in steeps or powder (the rockered tail will suddenly engage and give you less authority).
    Summit,

    Thanks for the review. I've been contemplating this ski or maybe waiting to demo some of the rockers coming out late this year. Can you explain what you mean by "authority over the tail." Is the forward mount, too far forward to allow engaging the tail w/o getting in the back seat? I really would love to demo these here in the PNW. My one concern was how these handled in crud and the occasional groomer but it sounds like that's not an issue. Do you feel the length is just right for your size and weight?
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim S View Post
    What is your size and weight?
    5'8" 165.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  9. #9
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    Thanks. At 6'2" 190 lbs I might consider the 193 (19_) rockered version.


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  10. #10
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    These sound like some great skis, especially for the day or two after a storm hunting for stuff in the trees as they seem fully capable of skiing curd and groomers.

    Long Duck Dong, the EHP's as floaty as ARG's or do they need more speed? I know you said they were comparable but can you elaborate?

    If i got these I could get Praxis as my dedicated pow ski and use the EHP's as a few days after the storm and minigolf style trees and pillows. Just thinking out loud trying to justify two 'funshaped' pow skis. (yes im aware that funshape is a ghay term and im also aware that i dont need to justify two pow skis. on this forum) (why am i still typing?
    I ski therefore I am.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountain_man View Post
    These sound like some great skis, especially for the day or two after a storm hunting for stuff in the trees as they seem fully capable of skiing curd and groomers.

    Long Duck Dong, the EHP's as floaty as ARG's or do they need more speed? I know you said they were comparable but can you elaborate?

    If i got these I could get Praxis as my dedicated pow ski and use the EHP's as a few days after the storm and minigolf style trees and pillows. Just thinking out loud trying to justify two 'funshaped' pow skis. (yes im aware that funshape is a ghay term and im also aware that i dont need to justify two pow skis. on this forum) (why am i still typing?
    I would say the EHP's are ALMOST as floaty as ARG's, but not quite. They do need a tiny bit more speed. The ARG's plane on top a bit more, due to the reverse sidecut. There is a difference, but really not much of one.The EHP's still float very well, and because of the early rise tip can be skied very forward in pow, much like the ARG's. In fact, with both skis the more forward you ski in pow the better they perform. They feel like a hybrid b/w an ARG reverse sidecut ski and a superwide traditional sidecut ski because of the rocker. They feel closer to the ARG's in terms of "floatiness" than my explosives or seths do to the EHP's. The ARG/EHP float difference is noticeable, but very small. With the way the EHP's slay crud, handle choppy runouts, and allow for technical turns in the steeps I would rather go with them than ARG's. It would be nice to have both, however. I can see no justification for not having both Praxis and EHP's.

    Interested to see Summit's findings, I can't push the tail of the EHP's out quite as well in pow as I thought I would, though it can still be done. I mounted mine right on the recommended point. I don't see changing that, but you never know.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long duc dong View Post
    EHP...feel closer to the ARG's in terms of "floatiness" than my explosives or seths do to the EHP's. The ARG/EHP float difference is noticeable, but very small. With the way the EHP's slay crud, handle choppy runouts, and allow for technical turns in the steeps I would rather go with them than ARG's. It would be nice to have both, however. I can see no justification for not having both Praxis and EHP's.
    For crud and chopped up pow, would you prefer the EHP 186, K2 Seth or the Praxis?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long duc dong View Post
    I would say the EHP's are ALMOST as floaty as ARG's, but not quite. They do need a tiny bit more speed. The ARG's plane on top a bit more, due to the reverse sidecut. There is a difference, but really not much of one.The EHP's still float very well, and because of the early rise tip can be skied very forward in pow, much like the ARG's. In fact, with both skis the more forward you ski in pow the better they perform. They feel like a hybrid b/w an ARG reverse sidecut ski and a superwide traditional sidecut ski because of the rocker. They feel closer to the ARG's in terms of "floatiness" than my explosives or seths do to the EHP's. The ARG/EHP float difference is noticeable, but very small. With the way the EHP's slay crud, handle choppy runouts, and allow for technical turns in the steeps I would rather go with them than ARG's. It would be nice to have both, however. I can see no justification for not having both Praxis and EHP's.

    Interested to see Summit's findings, I can't push the tail of the EHP's out quite as well in pow as I thought I would, though it can still be done. I mounted mine right on the recommended point. I don't see changing that, but you never know.
    DING DING DING

    quiver next year = EHP 186 + 185 Praxis. thanks for the review.

    can you expand more on the EHP groomer + (still somewhat soft) packed snow?? compare them to a MSP/Goat (90-100 waisted ski, that handles groomers as well if not better than pow)??
    http://tetongravity.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=932&dateline=12042516  96

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Long duc dong View Post
    I can see no justification for not having both Praxis and EHP's..
    Uh oh.

    Nice discussion.
    "Unfortunately, Meadows mgmt/marketing found out about the PR stash and published it on their trail map."

  15. #15
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    Poor tail authority in soft snow = try to slam out the tail and it catches... try to force the tail down and it doesn't
    Poor tail authority in steep hard snow = try to disengage the tail edge forcefully and it stays on and starts to engage the rockered section carving you uphilll

    Quote Originally Posted by lax View Post
    can you expand more on the EHP groomer + (still somewhat soft) packed snow?? compare them to a MSP/Goat (90-100 waisted ski, that handles groomers as well if not better than pow)??
    EHP - goes fast, stable, wide arcing turns... fun
    Gotama - more carvy/arcy more fun, holds a better edge little more stable

    Think PP vs Got or Got vs 75mm all mtn carver
    Last edited by Summit; 02-07-2008 at 04:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim S View Post
    For crud and chopped up pow, would you prefer the EHP 186, K2 Seth or the Praxis?
    Have not skied Praxis, only ARG's as far as reverse sidecut goes. For cut up pow and crud I would prefer the EHP's to the ARG's or the Seth's. There is a point where I would prefer the Seth's, but I have not determined exactly where that point is. If we are talking the cut up pow stage, the easily the EHP's. For crud....It depends on how fast things get chopped up. If the mountain is really getting diced up and packed down, EHP's for the bluebird pow, and probably the first day after. Somewhere around the second or third day after the storm I would prefer the Seth's, I just have not yet found the exact point. This assumes the whole mountain opens. If they hold pieces off, like Silverado or Granite, I would keep skiing the EHP's, as they are also lots of fun on the sections of the mountain which have been skied down, but have smooth windbuff, like the KT alternates sometimes get. I was skiing them last friday at Mammoth, loved them all morning tracking out chair 22, then loved them my last few runs of the day, when 22 was tracked out, but the wind was smoothing up the avy chutes. Overall, the EHP handles crud and pow bumps far better than I thought it would. While there might be moments on the second day after a storm when I would prefer Seth's, it is really not much of a big deal.
    Last edited by Long duc dong; 02-07-2008 at 05:10 PM.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lax View Post
    DING DING DING

    quiver next year = EHP 186 + 185 Praxis. thanks for the review.

    can you expand more on the EHP groomer + (still somewhat soft) packed snow?? compare them to a MSP/Goat (90-100 waisted ski, that handles groomers as well if not better than pow)??
    For the groomer + (still somewhat soft) stuff the EHP handles well, but definitely a step down from explosive/seth type ski. Not a big deal on a pow day, or slaying chopped up stuff a day or two after a storm. However, I would not want to use it as an everyday ski. For an everyday ski, I would prefer seth/msp/gotama/vct, something in that range. I would want a 95-100 wasted ski in 185-190, or a vct in a 182 as an everyday ski for Mammoth, which is where I do most of my skiing now, or Squaw, where I used to live. The EHP too wide for something everyday for me, but still much more versatile than I had expected.

    I should add that the EHP does not roll edge to edge as easily as the others on groomers, because of it's girth. You have to kind of "pedal" it a bit, as opposed to carving it.
    Last edited by Long duc dong; 02-07-2008 at 05:12 PM.
    "Have you ever seen a monk get wildly fucked by a bunch of teenage girls?" "No" "Then forget the monastery."


    "You ever hear of a little show called branded? Arthur Digby Sellers wrote 156 episodes. Not exactly a lightweight." Walter Sobcheck.

    "I didn't have a grandfather on the board of some fancy college. Key word being was. Did he touch the Filipino exchange student? Did he not touch the Filipino exchange student? I don't know Brooke, I wasn't there."

  18. #18
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    I bumped into a guy yesterday and today at Fernie with a pair of 186s. He is about 5'10", 175lb ( guessing). He said they were great but he said he was getting tip dive sometimes. I didnt ask him to elaborate....well.....maybe I did and just forgot what he was saying since I was overwhelmed by the quality of pow I was riding.
    Anyway. His comments about tip dive seem very conflicting with this review!

    Anyone else getting tip dive with these things?????
    Not that I am gonna get a pair or anything. Just wondering!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldo View Post
    what happened to Shadam this year? Usually by now he is posting drinking reports daily.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huckin eh? View Post
    I bumped into a guy yesterday and today at Fernie with a pair of 186s. He is about 5'10", 175lb ( guessing). He said they were great but he said he was getting tip dive sometimes. I didnt ask him to elaborate....well.....maybe I did and just forgot what he was saying since I was overwhelmed by the quality of pow I was riding.
    Anyway. His comments about tip dive seem very conflicting with this review!

    Anyone else getting tip dive with these things?????
    Not that I am gonna get a pair or anything. Just wondering!
    Some people can make anything dive. I've hear people complain about tip dive on Praxis and Spatulas. I don't know if its just their skiing style or if they just *think* the tips are diving as they roll onto the rocker.
    My friend who skis 183 Gots complained about EHP186 tip dive... she is like 5'6" and 120#. She had never been on rocker before though. I really think its a mental thing.
    Last edited by Summit; 02-07-2008 at 05:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  20. #20
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    What are the dimensions on these? Everywhere on the internet offers something different, and I can't search on ehp.

    aah found it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    More details:

    The dimensions are WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    They are NOT 124-113-118

    They actually measure 131-113-123... if you measure the contact points they are 128-113-122

    The rocker gives them less running length than the 05 183 Gotama.

    They do have a *tiny* bit of camber underfoot.
    Last edited by corn dog; 02-07-2008 at 06:04 PM.
    "Unfortunately, Meadows mgmt/marketing found out about the PR stash and published it on their trail map."

  21. #21
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    Well, I only have a few days on mine, including one short skin.

    The bad news first: kick turns were made worse by the rockered tail. Not fun, and easy to knock off the tail clip. More than a little skin drag makes me want to glide wax the skins.

    The good news: fun to ski in Whistler conditions, including a 20cm day in Harmony and Flute Bowls. It was easy to ski in all conditions-scraped chute entries, steep wind-affected snow, untracked powder, and a 4000' groomer run to Creekside. I felt like I was skiing them with a centered, surfy "reverse-camber" style. Maybe I need to get more forward on em. I really really like them

  22. #22
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    I may have missed it in another thread, but I'd be interested to hear from somebody who's skied both the 186 and 193, and the tradeoffs therein. I'd normally be inclined towards the bigger ski -- but they're really two totally different skis, right? I only weigh 145, but I lost 40 lbs just this fall and still think like I weigh 185.

    I'd also be interested in general versatility between these and 190 lotus 120's.

  23. #23
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    194 comments. Not a comparison but better than nothing....

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=72728
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  24. #24
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    In what sense do these have a pin tail??
    "Unfortunately, Meadows mgmt/marketing found out about the PR stash and published it on their trail map."

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by corn dog View Post
    In what sense do these have a pin tail??
    There are good pics on the 4FRNT website. It does not appear to be as dramatic as the Pontooon.

    I may get a chance to see and ski them this Thursday at K'Wood.
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